The Associates thread

[The Speaker]

The ICC have announced that Ireland and Afghanistan will join the other full member nations as part of a rankings-based qualification for the 2019 WC.

The top eight teams in the rankings system by 30th September 2017 automatically qualify - the remainder will have to get through the qualifiers.

http://www.cricketeurope4.net/DATABASE/ARTICLES2015/articles/000026/002672.shtml
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci-icc/content/story/824791.html

Unfortunately this means that Ireland and Afghanistan, while certainly deserving, are the only Associates getting any real benefits. What about the rest?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/825103.html
http://www.cricketeurope4.net/DATABASE/ARTICLES2015/articles/000026/002671.shtml

This also means, as some suspected, that Nepal and Kenya will be playing in the WCL Championship to replace the new half-full members.

 

[The_Reaper]

Will Afghanistan and Ireland actually get the chance to qualify?

As in playing enough games against enough opponents?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Will Afghanistan and Ireland actually get the chance to qualify?

As in playing enough games against enough opponents?

Only the top 8 auto-qualify, so two others get through via a qualification tournament.

Ireland and Afghanistan probably won't get anough games against top eight opposition to auto-qualify. But Zimbabwe probably won't either. It could easily be a case of Bangladesh and West Indies struggling to get the games to auto-qualify in 8th.

Presumably the qualifiication tourmnament for the 9th and 10th spots will be at least six teams. The bottom two full members (if Zimbabwe are still top 14 by then) plus four Associates/Affiliates.

Its probably the next best thing after keeping the World Cup larger. But CA and BCCI want to reduce low interest/income matches.

 

[The_Reaper]

Only the top 8 auto-qualify, so two others get through via a qualification tournament.

Ireland and Afghanistan probably won't get anough games against top eight opposition to auto-qualify. But Zimbabwe probably won't either. It could easily be a case of Bangladesh and West Indies struggling to get the games to auto-qualify in 8th.

Presumably the qualifiication tourmnament for the 9th and 10th spots will be at least six teams. The bottom two full members (if Zimbabwe are still top 14 by then) plus four Associates/Affiliates.

Its probably the next best thing after keeping the World Cup larger. But CA and BCCI want to reduce low interest/income matches.

It's ten teams apparently

 

[Yoda_]

The way the West Indies are going, they may need to qualify themselves

 

[t_94]

Just read in a Jarrod Kimber article that when the World Cup squads were initially selected that Ireland's squad had more odi hundreds in it than England's. Obviously the standard of teams they play is lower but it's an interesting stat nonetheless. Also there's the fact that England's captain is Irish.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

The way the West Indies are going, they may need to qualify themselves

There might not even be a "West Indies" by the next World Cup. (I'm guessing there might be a 5% chance that) Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago and co might be plying their wares in disvion three of the World Cricket League unless the WICB get themselves into gear, the players accept that they have a responsibility to the game and not just to IPL money, and the power nations do something to assist.
Unless all three happen fast, West Indies is in terminal decline, whether there remains a cricket entity called West Indies or not.

 

[The_Reaper]

There might not even be a "West Indies" by the next World Cup. (I'm guessing there might be a 5% chance that) Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago and co might be plying their wares in disvion three of the World Cricket League unless the WICB get themselves into gear, the players accept that they have a responsibility to the game and not just to IPL money, and the power nations do something to assist.
Unless all three happen fast, West Indies is in terminal decline, whether there remains a cricket entity called West Indies or not.

Jamaica, Trinidad etc would smash the div 3 sides

 

[t_94]

I reckon the best individual islands would be up there with the top level of associates. Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago and Guyana are three that spring to mind

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Jamaica, Trinidad etc would smash the div 3 sides

Yeah, the division 3 part was over-statement. The constituent parts would be in the top few affiliates if WI was no longer a cricket nation. At least for one or two generations of players.

 

[Cap]

I still find it strange that the ICC won't allow a two tiered test competition

I mean everyone already distects players stats to who they played (runs against Australia valued higher than those against say Bangladesh)

Just do it already

 

[The Passenger]

I would be happy for them introduce a category like "A" tests. Like a level between first class and test cricket, even though a game between NSW and Qld would be a higher standard than a game between Scotland and Hong Kong. But there would be games between the second tier nations that would definitely be higher than many first class games across the world. I can't imagine the lower teams in Bangladesh FC system are too strong, whilst even in England the FC games involving the Universities are of a very dubious standard.

But a category of "A" Tests would give some distinction between interstate FC games across the world and 4-day games between the second tier nations. Also "A" matches between the top tier nations could also fall under that banner. As would matches such as Australia A v Ireland, even though those are quite rare.

But I wouldn't like to see test matches given to those outside the top tier. That being said, it's probably time to start looking at an 11th test team. It's been a while since Bangladesh got a run. Afghan as a team are probably the best of the second tier, but long term Ireland is the best bet in terms of performances for a sustained period and the set up of their country system. One feels Afghanistan could be very up and down for a while.

 

[The Speaker]

I still find it strange that the ICC won't allow a two tiered test competition

I mean everyone already distects players stats to who they played (runs against Australia valued higher than those against say Bangladesh)

Just do it already

Would just increase the gap between the haves and have-nots.

No way known the big three would allow themselves to drop to the second tier.

 

[Yoda_]

A qualification between the top ranked "tier 2" side and the bottom ranked "tier 1" side sounds the most logical.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

I still find it strange that the ICC won't allow a two tiered test competition

I mean everyone already distects players stats to who they played (runs against Australia valued higher than those against say Bangladesh)

Just do it already

I like keeping Tests as the ultimate. You can't have two levels of ultimate.
Giving Intercontinental Cup games another name, even if just First Class Internationals probably wouldn't change anything in reality, and that is the closest thing there is to a second tier of Test cricket.
Allowing promotion into Tests through a clear pathway is what is important, and will not be allowed in my lifetime.

 

[Hellgood]

A qualification between the top ranked "tier 2" side and the bottom ranked "tier 1" side sounds the most logical.

That's the thing with this strange new structure, only associate members will able to be demoted which makes it seem kind of pointless. Suppose the fact that they will be able to earn promotion is an excellent advance, but it's still pretty flawed.

 

[Yoda_]

That's the thing with this strange new structure, only associate members will able to be demoted which makes it seem kind of pointless. Suppose the fact that they will be able to earn promotion is an excellent advance, but it's still pretty flawed.

What id be saying is having the bottom ranked Tier 1 side (Bangladesh for example) to play the top ranked Tier 2 side (Ireland for example) every two years for the opportunity to play in Tier 1. Should the bottom ranked side (Bangladesh) then too bad, the rankings stay the same.

As mentioned, it would be every to years for the opportunity to play in the tier 1. IT may throw the future fixturing out, but the ICC can't have everything. Would certainly give the lower ranked sides an opportunity to play the higher ranked sides.

 

[The Speaker]

What id be saying is having the bottom ranked Tier 1 side (Bangladesh for example) to play the top ranked Tier 2 side (Ireland for example) every two years for the opportunity to play in Tier 1. Should the bottom ranked side (Bangladesh) then too bad, the rankings stay the same.

As mentioned, it would be every to years for the opportunity to play in the tier 1. IT may throw the future fixturing out, but the ICC can't have everything. Would certainly give the lower ranked sides an opportunity to play the higher ranked sides.

In that case Bangladesh would also lose full member status, no? So cricket isn't really expanding, just shifting.

 

[Marklar_33]

I'd much prefer the system to be if Ireland defeated Bangladesh in a 3-Test away series, then they become the 11th Test nation, Bangladesh (in this example) stays also

 

[The_Reaper]

At minimum there has to a mechanism to gain test status.

 

[The Passenger]

It needs to be more than just beating a team in a 3 test series. They need to have the proper system in place below so there is a first class pathway to the test team.

I'm pretty sure Ireland would be more than capable now. Afghanistan as a team now could probably handle their own, but it's very questionable whether they have the first class in place, and that's before we even go into the instability of the country outside of cricket.

 

[The_Reaper]

It needs to be more than just beating a team in a 3 test series. They need to have the proper system in place below so there is a first class pathway to the test team.

I'm pretty sure Ireland would be more than capable now. Afghanistan as a team now could probably handle their own, but it's very questionable whether they have the first class in place, and that's before we even go into the instability of the country outside of cricket.

I remember looking through other cricket forums around the time of the Big 3 takeover of the ICC.

A poster on the Pakistan forum made this proposal around that time. There are some pretty obvious flaws but I like it as a starting point to think from

 

[chargers 09]

Final Results

Netherlands and Namibia are promoted to the WCL Championship, and will also take part in the Intercontinental Cup, joining the six ODI Associates.

Kenya and Nepal remain in division two, and are not scheduled to play until the next World Cup qualifiers.

Uganda and Canada are demoted to division three, joining Malaysia, Singapore and the two teams that are promoted from division four next year.

The next WCL tournament will be division six, held later this year. The Championship and Intercontinental Cup will be held over the next three years.

My Team of the Tournament

SJ Baard (Namibia) - 249 runs @ 41.50
G Snyman (Namibia) - 206 runs @ 34.33, 9 wickets @ 23.22
MG Erasmus (Namibia) - 241 runs @ 48.20
IA Karim+ (Kenya) - 205 runs @ 41.00, 14 catches
G Malla (Nepal) - 236 runs @ 59.00
P Khadka* (Nepal) - 185 runs @ 30.83, 6 wickets @ 22.83
MJG Rippon (Netherlands) - 113 runs @ 28.25, 14 wickets @ 15.57
NM Odhiambo (Kenya) - 123 runs @ 24.60, 11 wickets @ 17.00
Ahsan Malik (Netherlands) - 17 wickets @ 10.17
Sompal Kami (Nepal) - 11 wickets @ 19.18
H Ssenyondo (Uganda) - 9 wickets @ 16.11

How many of these players play first class cricket?

 

[The Speaker]

It needs to be more than just beating a team in a 3 test series. They need to have the proper system in place below so there is a first class pathway to the test team.

I'm pretty sure Ireland would be more than capable now. Afghanistan as a team now could probably handle their own, but it's very questionable whether they have the first class in place, and that's before we even go into the instability of the country outside of cricket.

Ireland and Afghanistan have both put a first class competition in place in the past couple of years.

How many of these players play first class cricket?

Depends what you mean. They don't play official first class cricket in their home countries, because only Test nations have official first class domestic competitions. The Intercontinental Cup is a first class competition.

 

[The Passenger]

Ireland and Afghanistan have both put a first class competition in place in the past couple of years.

They don't have first class status as of yet, but yes if either of the two nations were to be elevated to test status they have the structures in place for a first class competition.

I think Ireland are probably more advanced, even though they only introduced they're competition in 2013 whereas Afghanistan started theirs in 2011. Ireland have had a steady club competition for a long time - i.e. The Leinster Senior League goes back to 1919 according to wikipedia, and I actually thought it was further back than that. I don't really know what sort of ground level club competitions Afghanistan has underneath supporting their senior domestic competition.

I do wonder if Ireland would be better of having a fourth team in that competition. Short term obviously that stretches the talent, but 3 team competitions tend to be a little uncompetitive IMO. Also the unavailability of players to county cricket is always going to be an issue, and it's a double edged sword - they need their best players playing county cricket to get consistent competitive matches under their belt, but they also want them back home plying their skills against young up and coming Irish cricketers. Unfortunately the county season is so long that they can't even create a 3 week window of opportunity to have all Irish players available to play back home. I'm not really sure what the answer is there.

Afghan cricket is a great story. One of the real feel good stories of sport, but I think there is a bit of work to do in the country yet.

Both countries are doing the right things which is great, and I think Ireland should be in pretty soon, with a view to Afghan in the next 5 to 6 years.