The Australian Greens - What are they Doing?

[Power Raid]

Greens vow to push for ‘tycoon tax’ if the next federal election results in a hung parliament

Party leader Adam Bandt says ‘people want Clive Palmer to send fewer texts and pay more tax’

www.theguardian.com

god these guys are dumb

We've seen transfer pricing has been an issue for decades and caused by higher tax rates in Australia than overseas. Being a decades old issue, highlights it can not be remedied by current thinking and processes.

The obvious and simplest way to fix the issue is to increase GST.

Why?

1) It doesn't matter if company tax rates are 100% tax or 0% tax as companies don't actually ever pay tax under an efficient franking system. Companies only pay PAYG and the final tax is not assessed until distributed to shareholders and taxed at the individual tax rate
2) GST is almost impossible to avoid and too easy to identify issues and impacts those who attempt to transfer price

The other solution is have a wealth tax


but dumb politicians will always try and appeal to the dumb elements of society. Greens = Palmer

 

[Baltimore Jack]

In the 70's and 80's when The Greens pushed policies of Solar, Wind and Renewables, RWNJ also called the Greens dumb....but now those policies are mainstream

The fact is the Greens are always 30 years ahead of the Major parties and their sycophant followers

 

[Power Raid]

In the 70's and 80's when The Greens pushed policies of Solar, Wind and Renewables, RWNJ also called the Greens dumb....but now those policies are mainstream

The fact is the Greens are always 30 years ahead of the Major parties and their sycophant followers

I think you just highlighted the issue with the Greens

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I think you just highlighted the issue with the Greens

You mean they don't think in terms of the current election cycle but instead think in terms of long term solutions?

Solutions that you pile on later and claim as something insightful and new?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

god these guys are dumb

We've seen transfer pricing has been an issue for decades and caused by higher tax rates in Australia than overseas. Being a decades old issue, highlights it can not be remedied by current thinking and processes.

The obvious and simplest way to fix the issue is to increase GST.

Why?

1) It doesn't matter if company tax rates are 100% tax or 0% tax as companies don't actually ever pay tax under an efficient franking system. Companies only pay PAYG and the final tax is not assessed until distributed to shareholders and taxed at the individual tax rate
2) GST is almost impossible to avoid and too easy to identify issues and impacts those who attempt to transfer price

The other solution is have a wealth tax


but dumb politicians will always try and appeal to the dumb elements of society. Greens = Palmer

And your solution to this “dumb” proposal to reduce inequality is raising the GST instead?

Yeah good luck selling that one to the electorate.

 

[Power Raid]

You mean they don't think in terms of the current election cycle but instead think in terms of long term solutions?

Solutions that you pile on later and claim as something insightful and new?

I feel we should be aspirational but the greens mislead themselves and the electorate by confusing aspiration with reality. Then setting policy based on what is essentially a lie. Worse they feel they have a mortgage over the environment and thus don't respect others.

Where a sensible party works with industry, technology and the stakeholders to bring a policy framework which sees the implementation of change within a the parameters of reality. Of course all parties are guilty to pandering to segments of the electorate thus we don't see the effectiveness and efficiency we deserve.


But take a step back..........countries that implemented solutions that actually work have achieved 14g-70g CO2 per kwh by the 70s and 80s. Delivering cheap, reliable, safe, clean power.

Meanwhile the greens as you say called for "wind, solar and renewables" since the 80s and 40 years on.................there is no jurisdiction in the world with a renewables platform not supported by nuclear and or hydro that has achieved 14-70g CO2.

This highlights the greens aspirations have not been achieved successfully anywhere and have as a result, resulted in more pollution than otherwise if effective power technologies had been advocated and adopted. Dirty Germany speaks volumes!

 

[Power Raid]

And your solution to this “dumb” proposal to reduce inequality is raising the GST instead?

Yeah good luck selling that one to the electorate.

1) Price elasticity highlights corporate tax and GST are born by both the consumer and the seller regardless of who pays the tax bill
2) increasing minimum wages and social welfare are examples of off setting any burden on the poor and ordinary

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Renewables - Reality
Electric Vehicles - Reality
Solar Homes - Reality
Climate Change - Reality
Fossil Fuel - Reality

You were saying?

 

[Power Raid]

Renewables - Reality
Electric Vehicles - Reality
Solar Homes - Reality
Climate Change - Reality
Fossil Fuel - Reality

You were saying?

I feel we should be aspirational but the greens mislead themselves and the electorate by confusing aspiration with reality. Then setting policy based on what is essentially a lie. Worse they feel they have a mortgage over the environment and thus don't respect others.

Where a sensible party works with industry, technology and the stakeholders to bring a policy framework which sees the implementation of change within a the parameters of reality. Of course all parties are guilty to pandering to segments of the electorate thus we don't see the effectiveness and efficiency we deserve.


But take a step back..........countries that implemented solutions that actually work have achieved 14g-70g CO2 per kwh by the 70s and 80s. Delivering cheap, reliable, safe, clean power.

Meanwhile the greens as you say called for "wind, solar and renewables" since the 80s and 40 years on.................there is no jurisdiction in the world with a renewables platform not supported by nuclear and or hydro that has achieved 14-70g CO2.

This highlights the greens aspirations have not been achieved successfully anywhere and have as a result, resulted in more pollution than otherwise if effective power technologies had been advocated and adopted. Dirty Germany speaks volumes!

The Greens have proven themselves to be environmental vandals based on blinkered thinking rather than advocating effectiveness.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I think we need a new term - Greens Denier, an off shoot of Climate Denier and Trump Denier
All the same

 

[FredLeDeux]

I think we need a new term - Greens Denier, an off shoot of Climate Denier and Trump Denier
All the same

We already have one, it's "Fossil Fuel Shill"

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

1) Price elasticity highlights corporate tax and GST are born by both the consumer and the seller regardless of who pays the tax bill
2) increasing minimum wages and social welfare are examples of off setting any burden on the poor and ordinary

None of which overrides the fact that everyone knows that GST unfairly impacts lower income earners due to the bulk of their income going on essentials.

Tying a policy intended to reduce inequality to an increase in GST is political madness.

 

[Kwality]

It's a fine policy that I'd be happy to see adopted, but I'm not sure it should be the priority in a hung parliament negotiation. I think blocking any exploitation of the Beetaloo basin gas field should be first priority, and putting dental care and more mental health care into Medicare should be priority 2.

No mention of 'picking up the pieces' of the country's finances ?

The more extreme the policy, the more the vote fractures & that applies to all parties. There is a real chance of a Labor Green coalition & it will be a talking point for the media. For Labor to explain how it would work.

 

[Kwality]

We already have one, it's "Fossil Fuel Shill"

Why do you need to use labels, call names ... it distracts from a message & can have unexpected consequences, see Get Up campaign that saw Tony Abbott out of parliament & bringing peace to the Libs party room.
The winner all round is ScoMo, courtesy of Get Up ...

 

[Power Raid]

None of which overrides the fact that everyone knows that GST unfairly impacts lower income earners due to the bulk of their income going on essentials.

Tying a policy intended to reduce inequality to an increase in GST is political madness.

so if we know what we are doing is failing, keep failing or increase the risk of failure?

or implement solutions that work and remedy/ offset the impact to lower income earners.



do you support failure?

 

[Kwality]

None of which overrides the fact that everyone knows that GST unfairly impacts lower income earners due to the bulk of their income going on essentials.

Tying a policy intended to reduce inequality to an increase in GST is political madness.

When the Sales Tax was optional, the GST made a lot of sense. Legislating it with holes in it, was a godsend for lawyers & accountants. Same people who drove an armoured car through Sales Tax.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

so if we know what we are doing is failing, keep failing or increase the risk of failure?

or implement solutions that work and remedy/ offset the impact to lower income earners.



do you support failure?

Well I think your question is best directed at the morons currently in power, coz nothing they're doing is working very well, and much of it is actively making the nation much worse off.

Clearly you support failure, because making an increase in the GST the centrepiece of a policy intended to reduce inequality is the very definition of failure.

 

[Kwality]

Well I think your question is best directed at the morons currently in power, coz nothing they're doing is working very well, and much of it is actively making the nation much worse off.

Clearly you support failure, because making an increase in the GST the centrepiece of a policy intended to reduce inequality is the very definition of failure.

The GST is one aspect of tax policy. The best feature is it is transparent unlike say fuel.

 

[Power Raid]

Well I think your question is best directed at the morons currently in power, coz nothing they're doing is working very well, and much of it is actively making the nation much worse off.

Clearly you support failure, because making an increase in the GST the centrepiece of a policy intended to reduce inequality is the very definition of failure.

Ken Henry advocated this and like it or not the whole world is harmonising tax which is a higher GST

PS. your understanding of the word failure has to be questioned

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Ken Henry advocated this and like it or not the whole world is harmonising tax which is a higher GST

PS. your understanding of the word failure has to be questioned

The whole world may well be “harmonising” tax but I highly doubt that the #1 driver of that is fighting inequality. More likely it is from the latest wish list from the big four global tax evasion enablers, sorry, accounting firms.

 

[Kwality]

The whole world may well be “harmonising” tax but I highly doubt that the #1 driver of that is fighting inequality. More likely it is from the latest wish list from the big four global tax evasion enablers, sorry, accounting firms.

Do you pay more tax than you must ?

 

[Power Raid]

The whole world may well be “harmonising” tax but I highly doubt that the #1 driver of that is fighting inequality. More likely it is from the latest wish list from the big four global tax evasion enablers, sorry, accounting firms.

I feel we want the same things but you don't seem to consider effectiveness or sustainability.

The goal of renewables is to deliver clean energy yet not one jurisdiction on the planet with a renewables strategy has delivered 14-70g CO2 per kwh with hydro and or nuclear. A reasonable person would consider the reality, then conclude perhaps hydro and nuclear are the only way if we believe in a climate emergency.


Same with tax. The goal of a tax system is to collect funds (effective) and a sustainable tax base has the foundations across consumption, wealth and income with no over reliance on any base. Australia currently has 15.6% reliance on consumption taxes and 77% on income......a base that can be transferred overseas with a click of a button or cost allocation. We have seen this issue go unresolved for decades, failing to address globalisation and digital business. We have also seen at the same time that GST is almost impossible to work around. We also know a high GST favours local production over imports. We have seen nations like sweden and norway with a 25% GST, NZ 15%, UK 20%.

A reasonable person would decrease income tax and increase GST.

A reasonable person would acknowledge the impact of GST on the poor and ordinary and then address the impact.

Someone not being reasonable would say "let's be socialist like the nordic nations but let's not have the tax system that deliver it"

Someone who is not reasonable comes up with conspiracy theories

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I feel we want the same things but you don't seem to consider effectiveness or sustainability.

The goal of renewables is to deliver clean energy yet not one jurisdiction on the planet with a renewables strategy has delivered 14-70g CO2 per kwh with hydro and or nuclear. A reasonable person would consider the reality, then conclude perhaps hydro and nuclear are the only way if we believe in a climate emergency.


Same with tax. The goal of a tax system is to collect funds (effective) and a sustainable tax base has the foundations across consumption, wealth and income with no over reliance on any base. Australia currently has 15.6% reliance on consumption taxes and 77% on income......a base that can be transferred overseas with a click of a button or cost allocation. We have seen this issue go unresolved for decades, failing to address globalisation and digital business. We have also seen at the same time that GST is almost impossible to work around. We also know a high GST favours local production over imports. We have seen nations like sweden and norway with a 25% GST, NZ 15%, UK 20%.

A reasonable person would decrease income tax and increase GST.

A reasonable person would acknowledge the impact of GST on the poor and ordinary and then address the impact.

Someone not being reasonable would say "let's be socialist like the nordic nations but let's not have the tax system that deliver it"

Someone who is not reasonable comes up with conspiracy theories

Good post.

I just don’t think, when you see the degree to which the corporate world has infiltrated government in this country, it’s to be dismissed as “conspiracy theories”.

 

[Power Raid]

Good post.

I just don’t think, when you see the degree to which the corporate world has infiltrated government in this country, it’s to be dismissed as “conspiracy theories”.

Having worked in a big 5 (Andersen) and engaged big 4 and legal firms, I do have an appreciation of how they work and the fact they are service providers who deliver support for predetermined outcomes. They may not be impartial but they are professional.

In the case of tax, it is self-assessment and it is the job of the tax department to ping corporates, collect tax and issue penalties where appropriate. The issue here is, our tax system is too large (the largest in the world) and too complicated. This calls for a simplified system and a removal of incentive to transfer price and engage in cute tax treatment.

The bigger issue is for me, is government uses these organisations to deliver support for their own policies. This has two issues.......1) we know they deliver support for predetermined outcomes and 2) governments should have the balls to stand behind their own policies and not hide behind "this professional firm said". but this is probably a different topic in itself.

 

[Kwality]

Good post.

I just don’t think, when you see the degree to which the corporate world has infiltrated government in this country, it’s to be dismissed as “conspiracy theories”.

I agree its a post with substance.

Here is a suggestion you would not have read:
'Let me make another general point about the quality of bureaucratic advice, and that is the obscene reliance on expensive outside consultants. We are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars being doled out for tasks any normal person would regard as core functions of the public service. A large contract recently was awarded for advice on the vaccination rollout, for example. There are numerous contracts routinely handed out by Defence.

Thankfully, there is more transparency when it comes to the use of consultants. At the federal level, there is a requirement for departments to disclose spending on consultants. Treasury justifies their use “where specialist skills are required that are not available in-house”.

In 2019-20, Treasury spent $19m on “consultants/secondees/contractors”, but this did not include information technology contractors, which added another $15m. (Treasury employee expenses were $152m.) There was a time when Treasury would have regarded the use of consultants to this degree as a mark of shame. '

There is more:

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

I see the current privatisation of sections of VicRoads as a disturbing lack of confidence in the public service, because the dollars involved wont make one iota to State debt.