The Brownlow: A 2 horse race?

[Brown n Gold]

yer ok I give you the foot skills - he's above average but not Goddard.

To me a utility has to have the ability to hold down a key position aka Pavlich. Goddard's height and the fact he has done so on numerous occasions makes him a true utility. Hodge is not. Bartel is also good overhead etc like Hodge - he's not a utility though.

Theres a difference between medium sized players who occasionally plays tall and a player who could easily hold down a key forward/back spot in any side.

Preferred foot Goddard > Hodge
Non Preferred foot Hodge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goddard

 

[boozeDragon]

Hodge 32 Possessions 8 clearances 5 tackles and 3 goals would suggest that he probably can run out a game in the midfield... bursting through for a clearance in the 4th quarter to kick a goal from 70m Hodge is a true leader and an inspiration to his team.

Hodge has won a premiership and a norm smith.. 2 things that Goddard is yet to achieve. Goddard has started to show his potential in the last 2 years but has achieve f***all in comparison to Hodge.

Hodge >>>>> Goddard

keep in mind Goddard would have struggled to poll votes early with Riewoldt in great form. Montagna also in recent times taking votes from Goddard where Hodge has been CLEARLY BOG in 4 of the Hawks last 5 games.

Just about sums it up

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Whilst he played well in many of them, Hodge will struggle to get the three votes in the games we lost. Will need to do well when we do well in the second half.

 

[Bollox]

Goddard and Hodge will both be recognised top 5 AFL players by seasons end but the brownlow will go to Ablett at this rate. Probably shouldnt but thats the way it works with habitual umps seeing winning teams.
Umps have access to stats these days before voting which i reckon is a big mistake.

Hodge SHOULD poll a bit better than Goddard only because less guys ripping votes off him...but neither is a teachers pet and gob off a bit.

 

[Sin City]

I think it's Ablett clearly.

It'll be interesting to see who the umpires give the most votes to out of Pavlich, Sandilands, Barlow and Hill.

 

[cynical]

hodge might be a chance because he is a good player in a average side, but he is a utility like goddard and its hard for those guys to get multiple 3 votes.

ablett has had 2 poor weeks but he was in rare form early and would likely have 15 votes

he just needs to crank out a couple of bogs in a row and he'll be hot favourite again

if he doesn't pickup his form then guys like hodge, judd, bartel, chapman, goddard, griffen are a chance

 

[CatFan79]

Umps have access to stats these days before voting which i reckon is a big mistake.

Is someone able to confirm or deny this??? I was under the impression that umpires still saw NO STATS before deciding the 3,2,1.

 

[Ando727]

Is someone able to confirm or deny this??? I was under the impression that umpires still saw NO STATS before deciding the 3,2,1.

That's a new one for me as well. I always thought the umpires first priority after leaving the field was to go straight to the voting room. That is certainly what the public were told in the 80's and 90's. Don't see why they would change it. If they did have access to stats, they may as well change the name to the Midfielders' Medal, or don't bother with the umpires voting at all.

 

[LordJimmy]

Hodge has won a premiership and a norm smith.. 2 things that Goddard is yet to achieve. Goddard has started to show his potential in the last 2 years but has achieve f***all in comparison to Hodge.

Hodge >>>>> Goddard

keep in mind Goddard would have struggled to poll votes early with Riewoldt in great form. Montagna also in recent times taking votes from Goddard where Hodge has been CLEARLY BOG in 4 of the Hawks last 5 games.

I wonder how they would stack up if Goddard didn't break his collarbone in the opening quarter of the grand final. No excuses but yeah, he got screwed up pretty badly pretty early and still played out a decent game. Goddard is also 2 years younger.

Career achievements put Hodge ahead, but we're not talking about careers. We're talking about right now, and I personally wouldn't split them. You're only saying Hodge is better because he plays for your side.

Goddard was a clear best on ground in the game Riewoldt kicked 7. Did you even watch it?

 

[Rioli magic]

"Umpires have up to 36 hours after the game to lodge their votes." - Andy D on SEN talking about losing the rd 7 game votes.

 

[winty]

I would never suggest you were less educated - Kangan Tafe is highly regarded in Bulldog land.

Perhaps in answering your rantings I should simply defer to the adage: "never have a battle of wits with an unnarmed man....." (you do know who the unnarmed one is...dont you?)

Sorry to intrude on your lover's tiff there Sainter35, but it's obvious to all and sundry you're the "unnarmed" one, since the word is actually spelt unarmed. Obviously it wasn't a typo either, since you spelt it incorrectly twice in the one post.

 

[eldorado]

Maybe 'battle of wits' was a typo as well?

He may have forgotten the silent 't'...

 

[owenkraveki]

big fan of goddard hes super, he and hodge are the top 2 playas this year.

not sure why this has turned into a dick measuring contest between hawkas and sainters??

 

[eldorado]

big fan of goddard hes super, he and hodge are the top 2 playas this year.

not sure why this has turned into a dick measuring contest between hawkas and sainters??

Just sainter35, and all the Hawk-shaped devils that seem to pervade every moment of his waking consciousness...

 

[Super Hans]

Judd should have no chance at the brownlow. He has been overrated and done very little this year compared to his usual standards.

 

[AG]

Judd should have no chance at the brownlow. He has been overrated and done very little this year compared to his usual standards.

You only need 3 or 4 near BOG's at this stage to be in the race, which he has. The Brownlow doesn't reward consistency. That's why Goodes is always in contention, he normally has a slow start to the season and storms home.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Yep, someone like Goodes, Black or Mitchell could poll eighteen votes over the final ten games, while one of the current fancies might have a season ending injury in round 13. A bit early to say it's a two horse race.

Although, you've got to wonder how many times in a row the winner has to come from a team that makes the final four before people get it in their heads that the "players stealing votes from each other" logic is simply not true.

 

[Sttew]

no love for Sandilands?

Has to poll votes. Easily the No.1 ruck this year

 

[Paul Kersey]

"Umpires have up to 36 hours after the game to lodge their votes." - Andy D on SEN talking about losing the rd 7 game votes.

Incredible. Surely it should be before they leave the game venue, without looking at statistics or coming in contact with media.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Ofcourse no one underrates Hodge hes a gun. Facts are he has played most of his footy in the Nick Maxwell backman type role bringing the ball out of defence into fwd 50 (no shame there)

But he IS NOT a utility - just cause he jumps at second ruck occasionally and you lot mark him down as "he's played ruck" FFS Hayes does that weekly yet hes never played ruck........

I don't think I've read such dribble in my life. I would have to say you take the cake for the most arrogant but least well constructed argument on BF. Hodge is a utility in every way that your love child Goddard is. You simply claiming that Hodge is not a utility is not good enough. Hodge has played forward, back, mid and ruck and performed in all bar ruck. Get over it. And your idiotic comments about him being an adequate kick only simply highlight how far up your own @rse you have your head.

And don't bother firing any Tiger lines at me champ...I've heard them all.

cheers and have a good day

 

[#1 Dogs Fan]

Coooooooooney !!

Making his move

 

[Ghost of Grinter]

Goddard and Chapman are standouts for mine atm.

Hodge appears to be going well and will be getting votes.
Why sides let Hodge play loose and carve them up I never
understand, Hodge has excellent footskills.

Players who can handle a tag in the last half of the year
will be better placed to continue their form.

As for Ablett, It would appear that his chances are very slim,
as his team mates have cut off his hand ball receives and
some team mates appear to want their time in the sun.
ie - Kelly and Mackie, individual players.

Judd polls well and turns games, but looked sore on the weekend
and Carlton might struggle to win as many of they have in the last half.

Pendelbury also gotta be a big chance, classy mover, had a great year so far.

 

[AFaiL]

Goddard won't poll well when he is played as a loose man.

Loose man? Went H2H with Barlow on Sunday and earned every possession.

He is loose because he rips his opponent up. Do you honestly think opposition coaches LET him run free, knowing how good his kicking is, and how important he is to us.

Hodge and Goddard are in top form, and have been all season long if people manage to look past the Ablett/Judd love fest. Barely a bad game between them, and eventually players will start to poll. If these two start to in 2010, they should and will be the 2 out front by now.

Go back and watch some of their games, and go look at the stats. They are unbelievable.

 

[Damon_3388]

Just out of interest, here's how this weeks votes went going by the Champion Data Player Ranking scores. Just the three highest individual CPDRS from each game (running tallies are in parentheses), with no consideration for the scoreline. I also included a progressive leaderboard created by the same method too.

Round 12

North Melbourne vs. Carlton
3. Lindsay Thomas (North Melbourne) (3)
2. Scott D. Thompson (North Melbourne) (2)
1. Chris Judd (Carlton) (11)

Hawthorn vs. Adelaide
3. Cyril Rioli (Hawthorn) (5)
2. Luke Hodge (Hawthorn) (21)
1. Richard Douglas (Adelaide) (7)

Essendon vs. Geelong
3. Jimmy Bartel (Geelong) (10)
2. James Kelly (Geelong) (2)
1. James Podsiadly (Geelong) (6)

Port Adelaide vs. Sydney
3. Nick Malceski (Sydney) (9)
2. Hamish Hartlett (Port Adelaide) (2)
1. Adam Goodes (Sydney) (1)

Richmond vs. West Coast
3. Jack Riewoldt (Richmond) (6)
2. Matt Priddis (West Coast) (6)
1. Brett Deledio (Richmond) (1)

Western Bulldogs vs. Brisbane
3. Adam Cooney (Western Bulldogs) (8)
2. Daniel Giansiracusa (Western Bulldogs) (9)
1. Barry Hall (Western Bulldogs) (5)

Fremantle vs. St Kilda
3. Brendon Goddard (St Kilda) (15)
2. Nick Dal Santo (St Kilda) (11)
1. Aaron Sandilands (Fremantle) (10)

Melbourne vs. Collingwood
3. Dane Swan (Collingwood) (9)
2. Brent Moloney (Melbourne) (4)
1. Mark Jamar (Melbourne) (1)

Leaderboard
Luke Hodge (Hawthorn) - 21 (6 BOGs)
Gary Ablett (Geelong) - 17 (4 BOGs)
Brendon Goddard (St Kilda) - 15 (3 BOGs)
Michael Barlow (Fremantle) - 14 (3 BOGs)
Paul Chapman (Geelong) - 13 (2 BOGs)
Leigh Montagna (St Kilda) - 11 (2 BOGs)
Chris Judd (Carlton) - 11 (2 BOGs)
Nick Dal Santo (St Kilda) - 11 (1 BOG)
Jonathan Brown (Brisbane) - 10 (3 BOGs)
Jobe Watson (Essendon) - 10 (2 BOGs)
Jimmy Bartel (Geelong) - 10 (3 BOGs)
Aaron Sandilands (Fremantle) - 10 (1 BOG)
Matthew Pavlich (Fremantle) - 9 (2 BOGs)
Nick Malceski (Sydney) - 9 (2 BOGs)
Daniel Giansiracusa (Western Bulldogs) - 9 (2 BOGs)
Dane Swan (Collingwood) - 9 (3 BOGs)
Brian Lake (Western Bulldogs) - 8 (2 BOGs)
Graham Johncock (Adelaide) - 8 (2 BOGs)
Travis Boak (Port Adelaide) - 8 (2 BOGs)
Adam Cooney (Western Bulldogs) - 8 (2 BOGs)
James McDonald (Melbourne) - 7 (1 BOG)
Richard Douglas (Adelaide) - 7 (2 BOGs)
Nick Riewoldt (St Kilda) - 6 (2 BOGs)
Simon Black (Brisbane) - 6 (2 BOGs)
Travis Cloke (Collingwood) - 6 (2 BOGs)
Andrew Swallow (North Melbourne) - 6 (2 BOGs)
Joel Selwood (Geelong) - 6
Matthew Boyd (Western Bulldogs) - 6 (1 BOG)
James Podsiadly (Geelong) - 6 (1 BOG)
Jack Riewoldt (Richmond) - 6 (2 BOGs)
Matt Priddis (West Coast) - 6
Lindsay Gilbee (Western Bulldogs) - 5 (1 BOG)
Brent Stanton (Essendon) - 5 (1 BOG)
Heath Shaw (Collingwood) - 5
Steve Johnson (Geelong) - 5 (1 BOG)
Jack Trengove (Melbourne) - 5 (1 BOG)
Jude Bolton (Sydney) - 5 (1 BOG)
Scott Pendlebury (Collingwood) - 5
Cyril Rioli (Hawthorn) - 5 (1 BOG)
Barry Hall (Western Bulldogs) - 5
Michael Rischitelli (Brisbane) - 4 (1 BOG)
Kade Simpson (Carlton) - 4 (1 BOG)
Jordan Russell (Carlton) - 4 (BOG)
Eddie Betts (Carlton) - 4 (1 BOG)
Andrew Carrazzo (Carlton) - 4
Kieren Jack (Sydney) - 4
Daniel Hannebery (Sydney) - 4 (1 BOG)
Jamie Bennell (Melbourne) - 4
Lenny Hayes (St Kilda) - 4 (1 BOG)
Shane Tuck (Richmond) - 4 (1 BOG)
Domenic Cassisi (Port Adelaide) - 4
Paul Duffield (Fremantle) - 4
Cameron Bruce (Melbourne) - 4 (1 BOG)
Travis Johnstone (Brisbane) - 4 (1 BOG)
Brent Moloney (Melbourne) - 4
Kane Cornes (Port Adelaide) - 3 (1 BOG)
Brad Green (Melbourne) - 3 (1 BOG)
Ryan O’Keefe (Sydney) - 3 (1 BOG)
Simon Goodwin (Adelaide) - 3 (1 BOG)
Jared Brennan (Brisbane) - 3 (1 BOG)
Ryan Griffen (Western Bulldogs) - 3
Stephen Gilham (Hawthorn) - 3 (1 BOG)
Daniel Bradshaw (Sydney) - 3
Luke Ball (Collingwood) - 3 (1 BOG)
Josh J. Kennedy (West Coast) - 3 (1 BOG)
Jordan Lewis (Hawthorn) - 3
David Hille (Essendon) - 3
Heath Scotland (Carlton) - 3
Ben Hudson (Western Bulldogs) - 3 (1 BOG)
Brent Staker (Brisbane) - 3 (1 BOG)
Shane Mumford (Sydney) - 3 (1 BOG)
Sam Mitchell (Hawthorn) - 3
Bryce Gibbs (Carlton) - 3 (1 BOG)
Marc Murphy (Carlton) - 3
Kepler Bradley (Fremantle) - 3 (1 BOG)
Stephen Milne (St Kilda) - 3
Ryan Houlihan (Carlton) - 3
Daniel Cross (Western Bulldogs) - 3
Lindsay Thomas (North Melbourne) - 3 (1 BOG)
Shannon Byrnes (Geelong) - 2
Campbell Brown (Hawthorn) - 2
Luke Power (Brisbane) - 2
Luke McPharlin (Fremantle) - 2
Jack Grimes (Melbourne) - 2
Jason Davenport (Port Adelaide) - 2
Mark Seaby (Sydney) - 2
Steven Baker (St Kilda) - 2
Steven Salopek (Port Adelaide) - 2
Ben McGlynn (Sydney) - 2
Rick Dyson (Essendon) - 2
Jarrod Harbrow (Western Bulldogs) - 2
Steele Sidebottom (Collingwood) - 2
Heath Grundy (Sydney) - 2
Brent Guerra (Hawthorn) - 2
Robbie Gray (Port Adelaide) - 2
Sharrod Wellingham (Collingwood) - 2
Tom Scully (Melbourne) - 2
Jefferey Garlett (Carlton) - 2
Dean Cox (West Coast) - 2
Brady Rawlings (North Melbourne) - 2
Daniel Jackson (Richmond) - 2
Leroy Jetta (Essendon) - 2
Ashley McGrath (Brisbane) - 2
Lance Franklin (Hawthorn) - 2
Adam Selwood (West Coast) - 2
Dale Thomas (Collingwood) - 2
Jarrad Waite (Carlton) - 2
Tom Rockliff (Brisbane) - 2
Brent Harvey (North Melbourne) - 2
Andrew Welsh (Essendon) - 2
Scott D. Thompson (North Melbourne) - 2
James Kelly (Geelong) - 2
Hamish Hartlett (Port Adelaide) - 2
Paul Bower (Carlton) - 1
Liam Anthony (North Melbourne) - 1
Leon Davis (Collingwood) - 1
Paul Haselby (Fremantle) - 1
Cameron Mooney (Geelong) - 1
Ivan Maric (Adelaide) - 1
Leigh Adams (North Melbourne) - 1
Harry Taylor (Geelong) - 1
Jarrad McVeigh (Sydney) - 1
Colin Sylvia (Melbourne) - 1
Troy Chaplin (Port Adelaide) - 1
Alan Didak (Collingwood) - 1
Brad Sewell (Hawthorn) - 1
Tyson Edwards (Adelaide) - 1
Nathan Lovett-Murray (Essendon) - 1
David Mundy (Fremantle) - 1
Angus Monfries (Essendon) - 1
Kelvin Moore (Richmond) - 1
Nathan Bock (Adelaide) - 1
Matthew Kreuzer (Carlton) - 1
Daniel Rich (Brisbane) - 1
Angus Graham (Richmond) - 1
Nathan Grima (North Melbourne) - 1
Scott Thompson (Adelaide) - 1
Beau Waters (West Coast) - 1
Mark McVeigh (Essendon) - 1
Danyle Pearce (Port Adelaide) - 1
Adam Goodes (Sydney) - 1
Brett Deledio (Richmond) - 1
Mark Jamar (Melbourne) - 1

Despite the CDPR being the best all-round statistical measurement of a player's impact on the game (due to all the factors that go into it), obviously statistics aren't everything, so make of that what you will.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Dal Santo remarkably consistent. Didn't realise his year was anywhere near that good.