Play Nice The CAS Appeal thread - update: appeal fails (11/10/16)

[Tuco]

War and Peace never went this long.

Well this saga has already lasted longer than the Russian campaign that book was based around, but at this rate it's as if hey're trying to match the Napoloenic wars in total which went for about 12 years!

 

[footyfan1978]

Slartybartfast's head will be bald by the time they finalize this shit.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Appeal to be hird in French ?

That will double the lawyers cost
That will piss off a few journos expecting a junket overseas
And it will cause the likes of Brucie to claim discrimination etc

Thats why he's sleeping on the couch, yeah?

 

[Underdog]

Who would WADA even appeal to if the Swiss court overturns (which they won't) could the players trying local courts if the appeal does not get up but WADA has no avenues...

I think he means that WADA could appeal the AFL Tribunal decision again to CAS.

The best case scenario for Essendon is, they win the appeal and CAS have to re-hear the case. This means WADA retain their rights to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision to CAS.

These journos are trying to portray WADA and CAS as the same entity when they're not. If the arbitration is deemed unlawful, that affects both parties equally. WADA won't lose the right to have a re-hearing of their appeal due to the third party arbitrator being unlawful.

Having said that, I can't see the Essendon appeal winning. Has the appeal even been lodged yet or is it just the intent that's been announced?

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Is it too early to start asking what options WADA has in the (astronomically-unlikely) event that an appeal is successful?

i can't see any options for WADA, they'd need to rebuild the whole case again.

 

[Underdog]

i can't see any options for WADA, they'd need to rebuild the whole case again.

I'd imagine if the appeal is successful, the CAS hearing would be considered void and a new CAS hearing would take place. WADA have just as much right to a lawful arbitration as Essendon.

 

[Thrawn]

I'd imagine if the appeal is successful, the CAS hearing would be considered void and a new CAS hearing would take place. WADA have just as much right to a lawful arbitration as Essendon.

And then what? If CAS find them guilty and suspend them again, will they go crying and running to the Swiss high court?

 

[Sydney Bloods]

I'd imagine if the appeal is successful, the CAS hearing would be considered void and a new CAS hearing would take place. WADA have just as much right to a lawful arbitration as Essendon.

yes but if the case is thrown out by the swiss it won't be on the merits of the case, it will be on a technicality surrounding the legality of the case. Ie ASADA breached its own rules or some shit like that. It's a big process to go over as if you present the same case again they can again demand injunctions and challenge evidence as being ruled out by the appeal. Even if it's a load of BS its just more avenues to block justice and drag this out for years.

i honestly can't believe essendon is appealing again, sure they aren't paying for it NOW, but insurers aren't in the buisness of charity. there's going to be some steep increases in premiums down by the airport.

 

[Abomination]

I'd imagine if the appeal is successful, the CAS hearing would be considered void and a new CAS hearing would take place. WADA have just as much right to a lawful arbitration as Essendon.

Which raises another interesting point (possibly unrelated), but who covers WADA's legal fees for the CAS hearing? I'm assuming Essendon, considering they lost?

 

[gutsroy]

I swear on night Corcoran got suspended by AFL he said something in French to channel 9 reporter back in 2013.
Someone find the video please. Maybe he knew it was heading here all along.
He should be there representing the Essendon players case, at least for comic relief.

Round the 4-minute mark of this?

 

[footyfan1978]

Round the 4-minute mark of this?

That is it mate.
Great find.

Now if you can just find a video or audio of the 12 minute version of Pop Life I was looking for moments before this I will nominate you for hall of fame status.

 

[Eagle-Eye]

Appeal to be hird in French ?

That will double the lawyers cost
That will piss off a few journos expecting a junket overseas
And it will cause the likes of Brucie to claim discrimination etc

I heard it on good authority that Hird will be doing the translation due to his french lessons while studying

Reading notes written by Tania.

 

[Blue1980]

Remember when the word from Essendon was 'we just want this to be over, the players have been through enough'.

Seems they have forgotten their own spin. Which we knew the translation was 'We just want to get away with it. We are good Aussie blokes who play AFL, not dirty Chinese athletes'.

Also are they trying to get off on a technicality? Do they just want the wording changed so Essendon can't be sued? Is it a big smokescreen so Jobe can somehow justify keeping his brownlow? Is Timmy behind all this too, like he was in getting Bomber and Hirdy back to the club?

If the last part is true Timmy should really stick to not having any direct or indirect involvement with Essendon again.

Actually on second thoughts he can, it's been pretty damn funny.

 

[StabbytheRabbit]

Remember when the word from Essendon was 'we just want this to be over, the players have been through enough'.

Seems they have forgotten their own spin. Which we knew the translation was 'We just want to get away with it. We are good Aussie blokes who play AFL, not dirty Chinese athletes'.

Also are they trying to get off on a technicality? Do they just want the wording changed so Essendon can't be sued? Is it a big smokescreen so Jobe can somehow justify keeping his brownlow? Is Timmy behind all this too, like he was in getting Bomber and Hirdy back to the club?

If the last part is true Timmy should really stick to not having any direct or indirect involvement with Essendon again.

Actually on second thoughts he can, it's been pretty damn funny.

The decision to appeal has nothing to do with the club Essendon.

The decision was made by the some 12 current Essendon players, 2 current Port Adelaide players, 2 current Western Footscray players, 1 current Melbourne player and 1 current St Kilda player. There are also 14 other ex players.

The CAS decision has adversely effected the employment of some of these ex players.

They have decided to appeal because THEY don't believe the CAS outcome was fair and just.

 

[Thrawn]

The decision to appeal has nothing to do with the club Essendon.

Hang on, aren't Essendon's insurers paying for this appeal challenge?

Yet you are telling us that it has nothing to do with Essendon.

Righto.

 

[StabbytheRabbit]

It's based on evidence. If the evidence is strong enough then you're convicted. Make no mistake there was a heap of circumstantial evidence. It wasn't a tough decision. Fact is Essendon cheated. No records, omissions on the doping control form, GL Biochem confirming Charters sourced TB4 for Dank, an admission by Dank to the AGE that he used TB4 on the players, consents, correct molecular weight to 99%, text messages between Dank and Hird, players admissions that they used thymosin. You're as guilty as sin. What other conclusion could you come to offf that. What did you want, to see TB4 physically get compounded then seen physically injected into the player. Using that theory a murderer would get off because no-one saw him physically pull the trigger. If that evidence was against Joe Bloggs the Russian Olympic gold medal winning 800m runner, and not Essendon, you wouldn't hesitate calling him a cheat and want his medal taken off him.

Your view of the 'evidence' conflicts with that of the AFL Tribunal.

In fact, the AFL Tribunal were scathing of ASADA investigation. They stated that according to the 'evidence' (including text messages etc) they weren't even able to confirm to a comfortable satisfaction whether TB4 was even delivered into Australia, let alone to the Chemist for compounding, or the EFC, or even the players.

The CAS outcome as an exercise in how low could the evidence/supposition bar be lowered.

 

[Thrawn]

Your view of the 'evidence' conflicts with that of the AFL Tribunal.

In fact, the AFL Tribunal were scathing of ASADA investigation.

Why does this matter?

The higher court overruled them.

It doesn't matter what the AFL tribunal thinks. Local decisions get overturned all the time at CAS.

 

[Xtreme]

Your view of the 'evidence' conflicts with that of the AFL Tribunal.

In fact, the AFL Tribunal were scathing of ASADA investigation. They stated that according to the 'evidence' (including text messages etc) they weren't even able to confirm to a comfortable satisfaction whether TB4 was even delivered into Australia, let alone to the Chemist for compounding, or the EFC, or even the players.

The CAS outcome as an exercise in how low could the evidence/supposition bar be lowered.

The AFL tribunal was manufactured to get the result that impacted on the AFL the least. It was unfair and unjust for true justice.

CAS set the wrong things right.

 

[StabbytheRabbit]

Why does this matter?

The higher court overruled them.

It doesn't matter what the AFL tribunal thinks. Local decisions get overturned all the time at CAS.

Hence the players are now appealing the CAS decision.

 

[QuietB]

Your view of the 'evidence' conflicts with that of the AFL Tribunal.

In fact, the AFL Tribunal were scathing of ASADA investigation. They stated that according to the 'evidence' (including text messages etc) they weren't even able to confirm to a comfortable satisfaction whether TB4 was even delivered into Australia, let alone to the Chemist for compounding, or the EFC, or even the players.

The CAS outcome as an exercise in how low could the evidence/supposition bar be lowered.

I think the truth is that the AFL, conveniently, set the evidence bar way too high.

How was ASADA meant to categorically confirm that the substance on the invoice was in fact what it was stated to be.

The players took TB-4. It is as close to certain as it could be without a positive test and way past comfortable satisfaction.

Hence the Essendon appeal will not argue "we did not take TB-4" because that would be completely frivolous. Instead Essendon will again try to weasel out on imagined injustices and technicalities.

It really is pathetic.

 

[threesixpio]

Hence the players are now appealing the CAS decision.

I'm not sure a lot can be done re "finding of fact" at the Swiss court but I could be wrong

 

[StabbytheRabbit]

The AFL tribunal was manufactured to get the result that impacted on the AFL the least. It was unfair and unjust for true justice.

CAS set the wrong things right.

The only thing CAS did was set the 'evidence' bar way too low. IMO, its set this bar below the 'balance of probabilities' level.

This decision will become an international embarrassment for CAS and by default, WADA. There is an International Conference to be held In England on the 24th Feb. by an organisations called Law in Sport where this CAS decision will be discussed.

 

[StabbytheRabbit]

By the way, the international conference held by an organisation called Law in Sport has named one of its seminars:

“Anti-Doping – What is the future of anti-doping following the IAAF and Essendon Scandals?"

Panel members include WADA, CAS and lawyers from US Track and Field. The Chairman of the Panel is Sean Cottrell.

This issue is not going away.

Its becoming an international embarrassment for CAS, WADA and ASADA.

 

[Thrawn]

By the way, the international conference held by an organisation called Law in Sport has named one of its seminars:

“Anti-Doping – What is the future of anti-doping following the IAAF and Essendon Scandals?"

Panel members include WADA, CAS and lawyers from US Track and Field. The Chairman of the Panel is Sean Cottrell.

This issue is not going away.

Its becoming an international embarrassment for CAS, WADA and ASADA.

You don't know what they're even going to say in that seminar. For all we know, they'll applaud the CAS decision. I also like how they felt it necessary to mention it with a much more globally significant event.

 

[Brutalitops]

I think the question is going to be asked as to whether CAS should be ruling on an Australian sporting competition in a sport largely limited to Australia.

Isnt that argument nulled by the fact that Jobe had special dispensation to play against Ireland during his time out?

I dont quite remember the details but i recall there was a bit of a brouhaha at the time.