Strategy The case for a third tall forward

[itisnt2hard]

To be honest if Butch was playing today and i was coaching i would have switched him to the backline in the 3rd quarter
due to necessity. At least he could have competed and spoilled. We got smashed in the backline.

 

[Powerade 08]

I've yet to see one of the anti-Butcher/Third-Tall brigade respond to the logic which (tribey? El Scorcho?) presented, paraphrasing here:

If Lobbe went down (and Renouf was fit) Renouf would be picked to replace him regardless of how badly he was spudding it up in the SANFL. Because structure.

Because like a lot of stuff posted here it aint worth a reply.

Answer is we haven't lost a forward.

 

[tribey]

Because like a lot of stuff posted here it aint worth a reply.

Answer is we haven't lost a forward.

When Westhoff is forced to back up Lobbe, or spend inordinate minutes saving Hombsch/O'Shea/Jonas' bacon, we've lost a forward.

Some of the thinking on here is hair-tear out simplistic.

 

[raman]

Because like a lot of stuff posted here it aint worth a reply.

Answer is we haven't lost a forward.

Thank you for your contradictory response.

The example does not require that we lose a forward. The example simply says that that blinding SANFL form isn't necessary to justify structural selection.

 

[itisnt2hard]

Thank you for your contradictory response.

The example does not require that we lose a forward. The example simply says that that blinding SANFL form isn't necessary to justify structural selection.

It does help though.

 

[PepeSilvia]

How is there still argument about this?

 

[raman]

It does help though.

Granted. But we lack the luxury to be that fussy, and moreover the signs of this were there well before we started losing.

 

[itisnt2hard]

How is there still argument about this?

Trying to find the right one.

 

[tribey]

Granted. But we lack the luxury to be that fussy, and moreover the signs of this were there well before we started losing.

Meanwhile Apeness only has 7 disposals and 3 marks against GWS lolololololol

 

[Port01]

We are a key forward and a key back short.
Is incredibly obvious.
Play two key spuds and we will be better off than now.

 

[miners_FPFC]

So say butcher is not an option (still up for debate but just for arguments sake)

What about Paul Stewart to play as a marking forward?

 

[El_Scorcho]

Because like a lot of stuff posted here it aint worth a reply.

Answer is we haven't lost a forward.

We lost a forward after round 3 and spent 10 weeks getting away with it because our gameplan hadn't been found out yet. Now it has and we are getting beaten by awful sides in games where it is really, really obvious (I mean even the fox footy commentators were saying it obvious) that we're way too short

 

[raman]

What about Paul Stewart to play as a marking forward?

Could happen. He spent a bit of time playing a lead-up role in a couple of pre-season games, if memory serves.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The notion that our coaching staff, with all their science, GPS measurements and experience in the game don't know what they're doing because our structure seems out and they aren't picking talls is ridiculously naive. Ken has said numerous times that he'd love another tall forward but he has no choice. He has no choice. Why is that so hard to understand?

Because he does have a choice. He's choosing to play Sam Gray and he's choosing to play Kane Mitchell despite them offering nothing to our side, and he's doing so at a time where anybody watching the game could see that we are short all over the ground.

It's gotten to the point where the commentators are noticing how short we are. The Fox Footy commentators. That's how obvious it's gotten.

 

[tribey]

So say butcher is not an option (still up for debate but just for arguments sake)

What about Paul Stewart to play as a marking forward?

I'd take it. At least he tries hard despite being largely ineffectual as a 3TF.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Because he's a better full time ruckman than Trengove or Westhoff. Trengove and Westhoff can chop out but they can't ruck full time.

And given what our forward line desperately lacks marking targets, John Butcher is a better option than Sam Gray. Gray can mark the odd ball up there but he can't be effective in a whole game as a marking target.

It's the same argument.

 

[tribey]

And given what our forward line desperately lacks marking targets, John Butcher is a better option than Sam Gray. Gray can mark the odd ball up there but he can't be effective in a whole game as a marking target.

It's the same argument.

Like for like we lose absolutely nothing, but the potential gain is off the charts.

 

[itisnt2hard]

And given what our forward line desperately lacks marking targets, John Butcher is a better option than Sam Gray. Gray can mark the odd ball up there but he can't be effective in a whole game as a marking target.

It's the same argument.

Mitchell and Gray are out for mine. If one didnt have a very stupid unfitting beard they would be clones. There a a squillion of these guys around and neither of these two moving forward will ever be anything more than required at times players. Both are so early 2000 footballers. We need to roll the dice, have a crack at change and recruit a proven tall at years end.

 

[Dave Omsby]

If Sydney can fit Buddy , Tippett , Goodes and Reid in their forward line I don't know why we can't try another tall again .
Butcher or Shaw at least give options for Westy and Shulz to move around without leaving no tall at full forward .
Seems logical to me

 

[Magpiespower]

There was one passage of play in the second quarter where the ball came in long and Robbie Gray battled valiantly but was hopelessly overmatched in a marking contest.

And that's when I thought... enough! I don't care if we pick a stobie pole. Just put another tall up there.

Maybe, just maybe, it's time to bite the bullet on Butch and say you're gonna play every minor round game left.

Now go for it.

Who knows? F@%ked if I know. Can't hurt but!

 

[tribey]

There was one passage of play in the second quarter where the ball came in long and Robbie Gray battled valiantly but was hopelessly overmatched in a marking contest.

And that's when I thought... enough! I don't care if we pick a stobie pole. Just put another tall up there.

Maybe, just maybe, it's time to bite the bullet on Butch and say you're gonna play every minor round game left.

Now go for it.

Who knows? F@%ked if I know. Can't hurt but!

Or we could keep doing what we're doing, which doesn't seem to be working.

 

[Seanybruz]

They'll get a game when they match their KPI's that they're well aware of.

So when Butcher was kicking 3-5 goals a game just over a month ago but didn't get picked knowing we had an easier run of games coming up, what were his unrealistic KPI's he needed to meet? 6 goals 10 marks a week I think people wanted? That's as unrealistic as it gets.

We blew our opportunity to get another 6 games into a future KPP because Ken was too stubborn to throw caution into the wind by taking a risk on tweaking a formula that could've made us better, 3 weeks later we lose our CHB/FB & our 2nd tall forward now has to pinch hit in the ruck & down back.

The structure definitely isn't our only problem right now but it's probably the biggest one that could've been fixed the easiest had we taken a different approach that didn't include handing out Hobbit gold passes.

 

[klem22]

So say butcher is not an option (still up for debate but just for arguments sake)

What about Paul Stewart to play as a marking forward?

I think Ken cant coach to new things. He seems to be stuck in a rut that run will win the day. IMO he is coaching himself into a black hole.
I said a week or so ago Port end of season run will depend on him having more tricks in his bag, atm it seems like he has none. A big concern here.

Big men are winning the day at the clubs that a making a serious assault on the flag. Port dont seem to have anywhere to go.

 

[Trewth]

Nobody has disagreed with my point that neither Butcher, Harvey or Shaw have done anything to warrant selection have they? Has anyone said that their form alone in the SANFL has meant that they deserve a call up? I don't think so but I just want to be clear.

I understand everyone's point that 'to be damned with form, our structure NEEDS another tall' and I tend to agree. I want another tall forward badly, as much as anyone in here. However I understand why our coaching panel haven't selected one. Because none of them deserve it based on form. It's no ones fault but theirs.

If you guys want to pick them regardless then go right ahead. I get it. I also understand why they haven't been picked yet. It's all I intended to say really.

LeaveKenalone.jpg

 

[bomberclifford]

Meanwhile Apeness only has 7 disposals and 3 marks against GWS lolololololol

DELIST!!