Strategy The case for a third tall forward

[itisnt2hard]

Nobody has disagreed with my point that neither Butcher, Harvey or Shaw have done anything to warrant selection have they? Has anyone said that their form alone in the SANFL has meant that they deserve a call up? I don't think so but I just want to be clear.

I understand everyone's point that 'to be damned with form, our structure NEEDS another tall' and I tend to agree. I want another tall forward badly, as much as anyone in here. However I understand why our coaching panel haven't selected one. Because none of them deserve it based on form. It's no ones fault but theirs.

If you guys want to pick them regardless then go right ahead. I get it. I also understand why they haven't been picked yet. It's all I intended to say really.

LeaveKenalone.jpg

Makes sense. Whats happened in the past is the past. We agree we need an available tall. Have we got one ready? Who knows, time to find out.

 

[johnnysix]

Any half decent option would have picked themselves by now. It's a complete damnation of Butcher's form and ability. Shaw is too raw. Butcher has had an eternity to work on his game. I know we need another forward but surely it requires some sort of form to be picked. Having said that... Mitchell continues to be picked and Pittard gets card blanch to make as many mistakes as he does , so at this point I think it's a little rich to hold other players to a different standard.

 

[tribey]

Nobody has disagreed with my point that neither Butcher, Harvey or Shaw have done anything to warrant selection have they? Has anyone said that their form alone in the SANFL has meant that they deserve a call up? I don't think so but I just want to be clear.

I understand everyone's point that 'to be damned with form, our structure NEEDS another tall' and I tend to agree. I want another tall forward badly, as much as anyone in here. However I understand why our coaching panel haven't selected one. Because none of them deserve it based on form. It's no ones fault but theirs.

If you guys want to pick them regardless then go right ahead. I get it. I also understand why they haven't been picked yet. It's all I intended to say really.

LeaveKenalone.jpg

And who we did pick in a deep forward role wasn't up to it. Again.

And we lost to Richmond.

theresalwaysnextyear.gif

 

[Schulzenfest]

Does Butcher's form warrant AFL selection? No, not really. Do Sam Gray and Kane Mitchell's form warrant AFL selection? Nope. So if we must play a player whose form doesn't warrant AFL selection, why don't we at least play the one who gives us some desperately needed structural help?

As for Trewth saying its naive to think we know better than Ken? Ken's coaching record without Trengove in the side is 2-9. It's not naive at all to say that maybe he doesn't know how to deal with the structural effect that losing Trengove has on the side as a whole.

 

[johnnysix]

And who we did pick in a deep forward role wasn't up to it. Again.
theresalwaysnextyear.gif

I think this is it when we get down to brass tacks. The guys we did pick didn't get the job done. Pretty good conditions for footy and for some reason the guys that we getting it done two months ago aren't doing it now. A lot of it comes down to delivery. It's been shite. Referred pressure. Too many of our players are offloading it blindly under pressure or actually putting ourselves under pressure with stupid decisions. I nearly spat it thinking Schultz had done his shoulder up around the wing. We shouldn't need our forwards so far up the field. Too many shitty turnovers.

 

[aneale]

You need another tall forward, no question, at this point structure needs to make way for form/talent/AFL readiness.

However the thing that strikes me is Ken. Did anyone see that glossy TV bit he did where he stated he only really watches and takes note of the back half because it's all about building from the defensive end and if that is right the goals will take care of themselves. I find that strange. And if I were standing in the forward 50 a little underwhelming to my value.

My explain some of the reluctance if the career back men believes goals will just happen.

 

[Portia]

If I were to play devil's advocate, I would suggest the following.

- It is difficult to rate a forward line if their midfield is broken.
- It is difficult to rate ball movement through midfield if defence is broken.
- If your defence is broken, everything is broken.

When your defence is at least serviceable, then you can work on other areas, otherwise its very hard to work out unless you are fantastic at conceptualising plays. Which you'd hope an AFL head coach would be, to be honest, but maybe not.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Man....

Soooooo depressing

 

[brad the brain]

Strangely enough.Butcher might play better in the AFL than the SANFL due to better delivery from more skilful players.It couldn't hurt to try surely?
We are going down hill fast and have to try something/

 

[crafty_bernardo]

Strangely enough.Butcher might play better in the AFL than the SANFL due to better delivery from more skilful players.It couldn't hurt to try surely?
We are going down hill fast and have to try something/

Delivery isn't the issue though. It;s his kicking for set shots

 

[Peck]

Butcher comes in, does nothing.

#Westhoffplayedslightlybetterthanprevious

We are losing because we are playing like utter garbage.

 

[StrappingTape]

We are losing to shite teams because our structure is stuffed. We like to kick it out to the boundary line from defence to the wings about 10m from the 50 arc. We with our proper structure plonk a big either side to either mark it, bring it to ground for our runners to come in or to get a stoppage. On the weekend when we kicked it out of our defensive 50 to our go to zone, who the **** was there oh that's right sam gray who consequently because he's too short got completely owned in the marking contest. It's more than another tall forward kicking goals, they will enable us to kick more goals by moving the ball better and give our runners some contests to crumb which we have not had for weeks now. Even now it's really the case for the 2nd tall forward because we don't even have a 2nd at the moment.

 

[PowerKidd]

Strangely enough.Butcher might play better in the AFL than the SANFL due to better delivery from more skilful players.It couldn't hurt to try surely?
We are going down hill fast and have to try something/

its not the delivery, its his kicking at goal, he kicks at 20% not good enough

 

[yepits2020]

Strangely enough.Butcher might play better in the AFL than the SANFL due to better delivery from more skilful players.It couldn't hurt to try surely?
We are going down hill fast and have to try something/

Hahahahaha... (gags) Bwahahahahaha (gags) Lols lols lols (gags). I wish. In the SANFL, I believe he did one decent shot on goal (45 metres out at 45 degree angle), missed a close set shot and even closer running into the goal. Maybe he just needs to kick through the ball as if he is taking a long kick every time. I dunno... but I am hoping it will come good.

 

[StrappingTape]

It's not the goal kicking we need the third (at the moment 2nd tall for), it frees up our runners, it gives them a contest to work from, it frees up Westhoff.

 

[*PAF]

It's not the goal kicking we need the third (at the moment 2nd tall for), it frees up our runners, it gives them a contest to work from, it frees up Westhoff.

100%.
Goal kicking is not an issue. We have missed easy goals because of the pressure from playing catch up football under "perceived pressure".

Remove that and the goals will come.

 

[bart7575]

We are losing to shite teams because our structure is stuffed. We like to kick it out to the boundary line from defence to the wings about 10m from the 50 arc. We with our proper structure plonk a big either side to either mark it, bring it to ground for our runners to come in or to get a stoppage. On the weekend when we kicked it out of our defensive 50 to our go to zone, who the **** was there oh that's right sam gray who consequently because he's too short got completely owned in the marking contest. It's more than another tall forward kicking goals, they will enable us to kick more goals by moving the ball better and give our runners some contests to crumb which we have not had for weeks now. Even now it's really the case for the 2nd tall forward because we don't even have a 2nd at the moment.

No one on this site are AFL coaches otherwise we would be in system. We could assume certain things based on what we see. Yes we are playing a more stop and start style of game and we are definitely not taking the game on from the defensive 50 through the middle with the exception of maybe Pittard. Maybe because without having Bobby and Jackson in the defence we have been told to kick and or run/look to the arcs and if we lose it we can hopefully knock it to the boundary so we can set it up and hopefully win the ball again. I don't know. It doesn't help when players of the like Ebert have been down since the Sydney game. However, it is not all gloom and doom, we have the squad, patience and faith!

 

[edgie]

So basically Ken is saying no one is earning selection so the status quo remains at AFL level because it isn't about dropping underperforming players but about reserves players forcing their way in through excellent consistent performance. Consistent so at least 2 games in a row. So our AFL players are guaranteed selection. Something not right there.

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[Andre]

So basically Ken is saying no one is earning selection so the status quo remains at AFL level because it isn't about dropping underperforming players but about reserves players forcing their way in through excellent consistent performance. Consistent so at least 2 games in a row. So our AFL players are guaranteed selection. Something not right there.

So we're the Australian cricket team where the only thing harder then getting into it, was getting out of it. Except without the continued wins they had then.

 

[edgie]

So we're the Australian cricket team where the only thing harder then getting into it, was getting out of it. Except without the continued wins they had then.

Also except Boof Lehman didn't help us much





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[Pedro59]

We are losing to shite teams because our structure is stuffed. We like to kick it out to the boundary line from defence to the wings about 10m from the 50 arc. We with our proper structure plonk a big either side to either mark it, bring it to ground for our runners to come in or to get a stoppage. On the weekend when we kicked it out of our defensive 50 to our go to zone, who the **** was there oh that's right sam gray who consequently because he's too short got completely owned in the marking contest. It's more than another tall forward kicking goals, they will enable us to kick more goals by moving the ball better and give our runners some contests to crumb which we have not had for weeks now. Even now it's really the case for the 2nd tall forward because we don't even have a 2nd at the moment.

If not the F50 we definitely
Need a tall option on the wings for some kick outs

 

[Seanybruz]

Wayne Carey had a chat with Carlisle about his forward work & he comes out with a 19 mark 4 goal game against Collingwood, whilst their backline is as brittle ours right now Jake played a ripper game.

Wouldn't hurt for us to sound the Duck out to have a chat with our 3 young forwards & possibly some one on one work with Butcher in particular, Carlisle took a whole heap of notes & it's at least given him a confidence boost.

 

[edgie]

Wayne Carey had a chat with Carlisle about his forward work & he comes out with a 19 mark 4 goal game against Collingwood, whilst their backline is as brittle ours right now Jake played a ripper game.

Wouldn't hurt for us to sound the Duck out to have a chat with our 3 young forwards & possibly some one on one work with Butcher in particular, Carlisle took a whole heap of notes & it's at least given him a confidence boost.

Tredders and King double team



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[RussellEbertHandball]

Wayne Carey had a chat with Carlisle about his forward work & he comes out with a 19 mark 4 goal game against Collingwood, whilst their backline is as brittle ours right now Jake played a ripper game.

Wouldn't hurt for us to sound the Duck out to have a chat with our 3 young forwards & possibly some one on one work with Butcher in particular, Carlisle took a whole heap of notes & it's at least given him a confidence boost.

Pretty sure I heard that Tredders is working with Mitch Harvey. Either Ford Fairlane or pastmyprimus said something about him working with one of our young KPF's at the club1870 event on Saturday arvo.

 

[wilbur_15]

A couple of my points to add:

• Tall players can run too Ken. Didn't see Rance lack for speed or endurance at any point but saw him nonchalantly spoil a half a dozen marking contests or more vs Gray, Gray, Wingard, White, which ever small fwd who had done their best to get in to a good marking position yet was outdone by SIZE! Clurey and Butcher, who should be at the top of our list can run and tackle too you know.
• Another thing not brought up yet is the lack of versatility having the bare minimum (or less) of KPP brings. Did anyone else notice the number of times the camera swung to Hinkley in the box this week and he was staring blankly at the game with no conversation going on or urgency in our box? That's because he had no ****en options to change anything ie. his structure or KEY posts because he picked none and has only one possible structure and gamestyle to go with! You can't swing KEY men back or forward, try playing a taller/smaller forward line or try different match ups/structures if they aren't working if you only have 4 talls in your entire side.