The cliff.....is it really approaching?

[Mr Reliable]

I don't doubt our list, or believe we have a lack of quality. I doubt the football department in terms of coaching/development. I am not convinced that it's going to change for the better over the pre-season, but it may, who knows?

We aren't chasing anyone who is quality (that we know of atm) so that doesn't infuse optimism, and we are losing core players by the wheelbarrow. Richmond has convinced Prestia to nominate them, Hawks have got O'Meara to nominate them. It may or may not achieve any results but it gives supporters optimism that shit might get better.

Our game plan and midfield are at heart the core of our problems, even when we win the contested ball, we don't make the most of it because we don't have an emphasis to retain possession of the ball, we go for low probability bombs in favour of a run and carry type of approach. That has to change because the SS Scotts is heading for an iceberg if we continue to play the game like we have recently.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't kick it long, but when you go long the kicks should be flatter and out in front of a leading target and it should be consistent so the forwards have confidence that they can lead to positions and they know the ball will be put out there in front of them, not burning up on re-entry on top of their head which makes it much easier for defenders to spoil.

I think by accident/circumstances, we accidentally hit off on something in 2014, not by our design, but through injury. Swallow did his Achilles the year before, Ziebell was in the wars injury-wise and Wells played only 10 games (most of them late in the season), that lead to Cunnington playing the main extractor role and Greenwood got regular game time who ran aggressively through the middle and became the go-to target for Cunnington. I think Goldy to Cunnington was one of the highest combos of any ruckman to midfielder that year, Cunners went on to win the B&F.

Greenwood was the best type of midfielder to run with Cunnington, they had good synergy because Levi did a lot of the 1%ers, even played shut down roles in some games, but he wasn't trying to win first possession like Swallow and Ziebell do, our midfield is dysfunctional, we have 3 extractors and when we don't win the ball there is nobody doing the defensive work. We need better synergy in terms of the structure of the midfield group and the game plan.

The obvious option for Ziebell is to push him forward, a lot more. But he also needs to be better taught what to do when he rotates into the middle, he too often hacks it to the opposition, but he has the ability to make better decisions and use the ball better, he shows that when he is around the 50m arc that he can hit up difficult passes and has good peripheral vision, he needs to apply that mentality to his midfield work. He needs to be better coached. He could easily go from meh to elite.

I think McDonald could play the same role that Levi did, Junior might not be the bull Levi was, but if he plays more like he did as a junior he would be a better follower to work with Ben than either Swallow or Ziebell.

Clarke and Dumont are also very capable, they shouldn't give either of these guys negative roles, or focus too much on stopping opposition, we need to encourage the offensive flair. Dumont's decision making and execution into the forward 50 is generally very good. Clarke also has that aggressive style about him which if we structure our midfield well will come into his own.

Our club should have the focus that every midfielder kick 20 goals for 2017, we don't need reckless running but when there is space and opportunity we want to encourage the midfield to run and carry and if the forward options aren't open to have shots on goal running into the forward 50.

For 2016 Ziebell kicked 18 goals (23 games), Gibson 13(23), Dal Santo 6(22), Dumont 5(12), Wells 5(19), Cunnington 4(22), Swallow 0(22). It is not enough.

Any chance you might quit your current "role" and take up a position as an assistant coach at North? I'm serious!

I learnt more reading your post in 3 minutes than I did watching our meat grinder midfield extract the ball and hack it forward for the whole bloody season.

 

[shniko11]

U have to take a few steps back to go forward and if that means a few years of middle six finishes then so be it, don't know exactly who knows what happens.
But we might get a few higher picks in the next few years and we can reload with the current group.
Bard said on T.F that the younger players are very excited with more opportunities open up he also said "never underestimate the exuberance of youth"
Can't wait!

 

[big_e]

Will finish bottom 8 for sure. Probably around 7-10. I would prefer finishing lower but still being competitive. The afl system punishes clubs who finish in the middle

None of the positions between 7 and 10 are in the bottom 8. #mathsnerd

 

[giantroo]

Just like Maj, I can't wait!

 

[Cool Kangas]

I just want us to be competitive and fun to watch. Not a plodder team that rolls over when it gets hard. If that happens attendances will take a dive and that worries me. I can't wait to see energy and fire next year...(fingers crossed)

 

[The chorus]

I just want us to be competitive and fun to watch. Not a plodder team that rolls over when it gets hard. If that happens attendances will take a dive and that worries me. I can't wait to see energy and fire next year...(fingers crossed)

I agree with this. I hope the reset means a change of approach (to a faster, more attacking approach) as much as a change of personnel. The biggest test will at selection. As Tas said we must change our midfield set up, giving Dumont and Clarke (and hopefully some new recruits) play making roles which will mean not automatically putting Swallow, Cunnington and Zeibell in there most of the time. I would also like to see us show a bit more flair moving the ball out of the backline; for example, not just short kick ins to the backpocket after almost every behind. A couple of years back Mullett was kicking to himself, running 20 metres, then kicking the ball 55 metres. This year we specialised in 10 metre kicks to a player wedged in on the boundary line

 

[roojor]

Need to find outside run and skill wont come with the current list so we need to find it in the draft. Hoping that our pressure goes up and tackling or we are in serious trouble. When you think of this year we just best Melbourne and stkilda. Could have been ten wins.

 

[Roozee]

 

[Jack Bradley]

None of the positions between 7 and 10 are in the bottom 8. #mathsnerd

Yeah I'm out of it

 

[LETSGOKANGAS]

We are slow and unskilled through the middle.

13th next season.

 

[Tas]

We are slow and unskilled through the middle.

13th next season.

Pretty much the same group was #2 behind Hawthorn in 2013 for disposal efficiency, unsurprising, having players in space and hitting uncontested targets makes you more efficient than moving the ball slowly and bombing it high in the air to every contest.

Hawthorn have been over the last five odd years, marginally better defensively than us, they have just reliably kicked more than the opposition until this year.

 

[Horizons_00]

We won so many consecutive games at the start of the year because we were the number one pressure team in the comp (most tackles, most caused turnovers etc)

After getting in game injuries, dropping off intensity and following the first lost (against Sydney) we lost that manic pressure until was almost non-existent

Maybe this reset with rejuvenate that hunger. The cliff is or isn't falling, no one can ever know for sure. That's the beauty of footy sometimes

 

[Tas]

Any chance you might quit your current "role" and take up a position as an assistant coach at North? I'm serious!

I learnt more reading your post in 3 minutes than I did watching our meat grinder midfield extract the ball and hack it forward for the whole bloody season.

I'm old and cranky, I'd probably be like Malthouse. :stern look

I think it was obvious that we had an issue last year when Scott had his back issues and was able to sit out and watch some games and that perspective allowed him to see things he obviously misses when he is in the cut n' thrust of coaching. I think in modern coaching there can be an overwhelming overload of information, communication is the key and I think the good coaches keep the message simple and communicate well.

This is our football department staff...

Football
Director of Football Geoff Walsh
Senior Coach Brad Scott
Ruck Consultant Alex Ishchenko
Recruiting Officer Andrew Carson
Assistant Coach Brad Green
Recruiting Assistant Ben Birthisel
Development Manager Ben Dyer
National Recruiting Manager Bryce Lewis
Physiotherapist Brenton Egglestone
GM - Football Operations & List Management Cameron Joyce
Property/Player Liasion Manager Carly Fox
Strength & Conditioning Coach Dan Meehan
Rehabilitation Coach Daniel Jones
Opposition & Stoppages Coach Darren Crocker
Physiotherapist David Dawes
Development Coach David Loader
Career & Education Coordinator David Madigan
Assistant Performance Analyst David Sobey
Chef Gail Miller
Senior Development Manager Gavin Brown
Football Technology Assistant Heath Wallace
Assistant Coach Jarred Moore
Performance Analyst Manager Jason Lappin
Tackling Coach John Donehue
Medical Accounts John Wilson
Nutrition & Conditioning Coach Jona Segal
Defence Coach Josh Drummond
Football Technology Manager Julian Davis
Manager, Women's Football & Talent Pathways Laura Kane
Midfield Coach Leigh Tudor
Assistant Recruiting Manager Mark Finnigan
Recruiting Officer - Future Picks Mark Barnard
Physiotherapist Matthew Turnbull
Football Operations Coordinator & Compliance Mel Forge
Sports Psychologist Michael Inglis
Player Welfare Assistant Mick Kennedy
Technology Assistant Najee Imam
Player Welfare Manager Neil Connell
Pro Scout Nick Byrne
Assistant Performance Analyst Noni Taylor
Performance Analyst - Skills Olivia Mills
Doctor Peter Baquie
Recruiting Assistant Rhys Harwood
Support Doctor Richard Saw
Physiotherapist Stephen Galloway
High Performance Manager Director Sports Science & Training Services Steve Saunders
Performance Analyst - Physical Tania Gallo
Psychologist Tarah Kavanagh

I think Brad goes into work and his head is spinning by lunch time with this tsunami of shit. What was our football department under Pagan?

$21,842,042 is what we spent last year on the football department, we are close now to what the other clubs spend on the football department. Almost $22m and we can't hit each other with the footy. Something isn't quite right.

 

[r_boy]

$21,842,042 is what we spent last year on the football department, we are close now to what the other clubs spend on the football department. Almost $22m and we can't hit each other with the footy. Something isn't quite right.

If that's the case then you are certainly right.

Where is that money going exactly...

I worry about our administration. I hope they are hiring the correct people.

 

[Tas]

If that's the case then you are certainly right.

Where is that money going exactly...

I worry about our administration. I hope they are hiring the correct people.

Half would be on player salaries.

 

[Arden]

I'm old and cranky, I'd probably be like Malthouse. :stern look

I think it was obvious that we had an issue last year when Scott had his back issues and was able to sit out and watch some game and that perspective allowed him to see things he obviously misses when he is in the cut n' thrust of coaching. I think in modern coaching there can an overwhelming overload of information, communication is the key and I think the good coaches keep the message simple and communicate well.

This is our football department staff...

Football
Director of Football Geoff Walsh
Senior Coach Brad Scott
Ruck Consultant Alex Ishchenko
Recruiting Officer Andrew Carson
Assistant Coach Brad Green
Recruiting Assistant Ben Birthisel
Development Manager Ben Dyer
National Recruiting Manager Bryce Lewis
Physiotherapist Brenton Egglestone
GM - Football Operations & List Management Cameron Joyce
Property/Player Liasion Manager Carly Fox
Strength & Conditioning Coach Dan Meehan
Rehabilitation Coach Daniel Jones
Opposition & Stoppages Coach Darren Crocker
Physiotherapist David Dawes
Development Coach David Loader
Career & Education Coordinator David Madigan
Assistant Performance Analyst David Sobey
Chef Gail Miller
Senior Development Manager Gavin Brown
Football Technology Assistant Heath Wallace
Assistant Coach Jarred Moore
Performance Analyst Manager Jason Lappin
Tackling Coach John Donehue
Medical Accounts John Wilson
Nutrition & Conditioning Coach Jona Segal
Defence Coach Josh Drummond
Football Technology Manager Julian Davis
Manager, Women's Football & Talent Pathways Laura Kane
Midfield Coach Leigh Tudor
Assistant Recruiting Manager Mark Finnigan
Recruiting Officer - Future Picks Mark Barnard
Physiotherapist Matthew Turnbull
Football Operations Coordinator & Compliance Mel Forge
Sports Psychologist Michael Inglis
Player Welfare Assistant Mick Kennedy
Technology Assistant Najee Imam
Player Welfare Manager Neil Connell
Pro Scout Nick Byrne
Assistant Performance Analyst Noni Taylor
Performance Analyst - Skills Olivia Mills
Doctor Peter Baquie
Recruiting Assistant Rhys Harwood
Support Doctor Richard Saw
Physiotherapist Stephen Galloway
High Performance Manager Director Sports Science & Training Services Steve Saunders
Performance Analyst - Physical Tania Gallo
Psychologist Tarah Kavanagh

I think Brad goes into work and his head is spinning by lunch time with this tsunami of shit. What was our football department under Pagan?

$21,842,042 is what we spent last year on the football department, we are close now to what the other clubs spend on the football department. Almost $22m and we can't hit each other with the footy. Something isn't quite right.

Pro scout? Sounds like a flog.

 

[nicko74]

I don't doubt our list, or believe we have a lack of quality. I doubt the football department in terms of coaching/development. I am not convinced that it's going to change for the better over the pre-season, but it may, who knows?

We aren't chasing anyone who is quality (that we know of atm) so that doesn't infuse optimism, and we are losing core players by the wheelbarrow. Richmond has convinced Prestia to nominate them, Hawks have got O'Meara to nominate them. It may or may not achieve any results but it gives supporters optimism that shit might get better.

Our game plan and midfield are at heart the core of our problems, even when we win the contested ball, we don't make the most of it because we don't have an emphasis to retain possession of the ball, we go for low probability bombs in favour of a run and carry type of approach. That has to change because the SS Scotts is heading for an iceberg if we continue to play the game like we have recently.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't kick it long, but when you go long the kicks should be flatter and out in front of a leading target and it should be consistent so the forwards have confidence that they can lead to positions and they know the ball will be put out there in front of them, not burning up on re-entry on top of their head which makes it much easier for defenders to spoil.

I think by accident/circumstances, we accidentally hit off on something in 2014, not by our design, but through injury. Swallow did his Achilles the year before, Ziebell was in the wars injury-wise and Wells played only 10 games (most of them late in the season), that lead to Cunnington playing the main extractor role and Greenwood got regular game time who ran aggressively through the middle and became the go-to target for Cunnington. I think Goldy to Cunnington was one of the highest combos of any ruckman to midfielder that year, Cunners went on to win the B&F.

Greenwood was the best type of midfielder to run with Cunnington, they had good synergy because Levi did a lot of the 1%ers, even played shut down roles in some games, but he wasn't trying to win first possession like Swallow and Ziebell do, our midfield is dysfunctional, we have 3 extractors and when we don't win the ball there is nobody doing the defensive work. We need better synergy in terms of the structure of the midfield group and the game plan.

The obvious option for Ziebell is to push him forward, a lot more. But he also needs to be better taught what to do when he rotates into the middle, he too often hacks it to the opposition, but he has the ability to make better decisions and use the ball better, he shows that when he is around the 50m arc that he can hit up difficult passes and has good peripheral vision, he needs to apply that mentality to his midfield work. He needs to be better coached. He could easily go from meh to elite.

I think McDonald could play the same role that Levi did, Junior might not be the bull Levi was, but if he plays more like he did as a junior he would be a better follower to work with Ben than either Swallow or Ziebell.

Clarke and Dumont are also very capable, they shouldn't give either of these guys negative roles, or focus too much on stopping opposition, we need to encourage the offensive flair. Dumont's decision making and execution into the forward 50 is generally very good. Clarke also has that aggressive style about him which if we structure our midfield well will come into his own.

Our club should have the focus that every midfielder kick 20 goals for 2017, we don't need reckless running but when there is space and opportunity we want to encourage the midfield to run and carry and if the forward options aren't open to have shots on goal running into the forward 50.

For 2016 Ziebell kicked 18 goals (23 games), Gibson 13(23), Dal Santo 6(22), Dumont 5(12), Wells 5(19), Cunnington 4(22), Swallow 0(22). It is not enough.

We need to get you a job on the coaching panel mate

 

[Tas]

Pro scout? Sounds like a flog.

We could get Zondor to do some pro boner work as the tender touch pro scout. :stern look

 

[Tas]

We need to get you a job on the coaching panel mate

Finding solutions is far more difficult than identifying problems. It just seems that we can't identify problems because we don't seem to try things differently that often.

 

[Zondor]

We could get Zondor to do some pro boner work as the tender touch pro scout. :stern look

Exactly. It's the sort of thing that would get the players up and about. :stern look

 

[TwentyNine]

At the moment the club management are steering deliberately towards the cliff, with a smile on their faces. So yes, I think so - we wiill drop off a fair bit next year is my guess because a rebuild is what we want so a rebuild is what we'll get. But we'll be back. We always come back.

 

[ozzyoslo]

If BS was ruthless he would have retired Waite as well but BS is the person who likes to BS to the supporters

Brown, Wood and Daw need another year of support. Wood might play up the ground for the season.

 

[ozzyoslo]

At the moment the club management are steering deliberately towards the cliff, with a smile on their faces. So yes, I think so - we wiill drop off a fair bit next year is my guess because a rebuild is what we want so a rebuild is what we'll get. But we'll be back. We always come back.

They're not driving kamikaze like off the cliff......then we'd see a heap of players doing a Brisbane like exit.

 

[tazaa]

Wright.9 Thompson.10 McDonald.4
Atley.7 Tarrant.10 MacMillan.8
Wells.15 Clarke.2 Higgins.11
Anderson.2 Waite.15 Ziebell.9
Thomas.11 Brown.4 Wood.5
Goldstein.11 Cunnington.8 Swallow.12
Daw.8 Gibson.6 Jacobs.5 Dumont.4 Garner.4 Turner.4 Hansen.11

There is plenty of experience in that team. The numbers in brackets are the year of AFL experience.
With that level of maturity I can't see us falling away. The issue is replacing the class of players we have lost. Will take two summers to do IMO.

 

[Mr Reliable]

I'm old and cranky, I'd probably be like Malthouse. :stern look

I think it was obvious that we had an issue last year when Scott had his back issues and was able to sit out and watch some game and that perspective allowed him to see things he obviously misses when he is in the cut n' thrust of coaching. I think in modern coaching there can an overwhelming overload of information, communication is the key and I think the good coaches keep the message simple and communicate well.

This is our football department staff...

Football
Director of Football Geoff Walsh
Senior Coach Brad Scott
Ruck Consultant Alex Ishchenko
Recruiting Officer Andrew Carson
Assistant Coach Brad Green
Recruiting Assistant Ben Birthisel
Development Manager Ben Dyer
National Recruiting Manager Bryce Lewis
Physiotherapist Brenton Egglestone
GM - Football Operations & List Management Cameron Joyce
Property/Player Liasion Manager Carly Fox
Strength & Conditioning Coach Dan Meehan
Rehabilitation Coach Daniel Jones
Opposition & Stoppages Coach Darren Crocker
Physiotherapist David Dawes
Development Coach David Loader
Career & Education Coordinator David Madigan
Assistant Performance Analyst David Sobey
Chef Gail Miller
Senior Development Manager Gavin Brown
Football Technology Assistant Heath Wallace
Assistant Coach Jarred Moore
Performance Analyst Manager Jason Lappin
Tackling Coach John Donehue
Medical Accounts John Wilson
Nutrition & Conditioning Coach Jona Segal
Defence Coach Josh Drummond
Football Technology Manager Julian Davis
Manager, Women's Football & Talent Pathways Laura Kane
Midfield Coach Leigh Tudor
Assistant Recruiting Manager Mark Finnigan
Recruiting Officer - Future Picks Mark Barnard
Physiotherapist Matthew Turnbull
Football Operations Coordinator & Compliance Mel Forge
Sports Psychologist Michael Inglis
Player Welfare Assistant Mick Kennedy
Technology Assistant Najee Imam
Player Welfare Manager Neil Connell
Pro Scout Nick Byrne
Assistant Performance Analyst Noni Taylor
Performance Analyst - Skills Olivia Mills
Doctor Peter Baquie
Recruiting Assistant Rhys Harwood
Support Doctor Richard Saw
Physiotherapist Stephen Galloway
High Performance Manager Director Sports Science & Training Services Steve Saunders
Performance Analyst - Physical Tania Gallo
Psychologist Tarah Kavanagh

I think Brad goes into work and his head is spinning by lunch time with this tsunami of shit. What was our football department under Pagan?

$21,842,042 is what we spent last year on the football department, we are close now to what the other clubs spend on the football department. Almost $22m and we can't hit each other with the footy. Something isn't quite right.

"Tsunami of shit" - reminds me of The Office when manager David Brent appoints Gareth as his assistant. Brent calls him "an assistant to the manager" and Gareth describes himself as "assistant manager".