The coach or the players?

[Black Diamond]

Oh, they were. But at least in those games we showed some really good signs for good periods of the game. Saturday was just shite poor for the majority. We should be passed that.

So the question becomes "Did we play well in those games despite the aforementioned issues?" If the answer is "No, we simply played well", then you have to question whether those issues really exist or if we just played poorly in those other matches.

I wouldnt doubt that you are dissapointed mate. Not for a second.

Hopefully next time you get to see the team makes up for it in some way.

Round 16.

 

[GarnerSmash]

So the question becomes "Did we play well in those games despite the aforementioned issues?" If the answer is "No, we simply played well", then you have to question whether those issues really exist or if we just played poorly in those other matches.

Perhaps the aforementioned issues are exposed after repeated failures under duress? Perhaps the cracks are now really showing.

 

[DarwinRoo]

It's a team so it's both.

 

[Black Diamond]

Perhaps the aforementioned issues are exposed after repeated failures under duress? Perhaps the cracks are now really showing.

Possibly. It still annoys me that people latch on to those issues without attempting to analyse the game at all (except against WC when the majority of the board decided it was because of the umpires).

 

[GarnerSmash]

Possibly. It still annoys me that people latch on to those issues without attempting to analyse the game at all (except against WC when the majority of the board decided it was because of the umpires).

Agreed.

A loss or poor performance is not exlusively the outcome of a particular issue but moreso a combination of factors. Some factors are easily found (lack of defensive running) others are implied by what is seen (lack of leadership or spirit) but cannot be measuered. Discussing each of these is important. Focussing on one is daft.

 

[Hunters Host #3]

Well said Tron.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Thanks mate.

 

[Arthur Cloke]

Lack of leadership from the players is the culprit. They all say "we have greater leaders at the club" and so forth but out on the ground there is no leadership at all when things need to be changed.

Yes sir. Zero leadership on and off the ground.

 

[Roo-Boy]

To be a top 2 side we need to fix our defense.Let's get assistant coaches that worked under Paul Roos and Ross Lyon. Or get Paul Roos to take over from Brad Scott and that definitely would be fixable

 

[royals1922]

And with that attitude we'll be Melbourne before you know it

Actually we won't. One of my major gripes last year and the years before that was that the difference between our best and worst - on the score board -was so wide as to be a chasm.

We are addressing that by at least being close in games. Now I hate losing (and I mean hate it because my fellow North colleagues on the Bay and myself get absolutely crucified with every close loss) but this season is really an example of what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

I haven't replaced the games in the minute ranges I gave in the earlier because knowing the result, you may be able to see which players "drop the ball" and which players "stand tall "when the momentum is against us.

 

[Boozeroo]

Kitchen sink to be thrown at Dustin Fletcher and Simon Black as assistants, Boomer as assistant up forward.

 

[roo_boy_29]

We have great players but poor leaders in general. I don't think Wells, Harvey, Petrie, Firitto, Thomas and Mcmahon are as good on field leaders as they think. Reading between the lines brad has been talking about getting some more experience in next season. What is that telling us? It's telling me our leadership is poor.

The next group of leaders at the club are Ziebell, Cunnington and Tarrant and I would have liked to say Harper, but what a dissapointing year he has ended up having. As far as the rest go I think Hansen and Grima go through the motions more often than not and will never add anything to the group other than a good game every now and then.

 

[blackshadow]

I agree with this 100%. The reality is that our list and gameplan has almost got us over the line this year against some very highly rated opposition.
There is no doubt that work needs to be done on defensive side of the game, particularly through the midfield, but in my view the biggest issue is the lack of onfield leadership and the willingness of individuals to put their hand up and be accountable. It's a sad indictment on Boomer in particular. Personally, I feel that he was reluctant to hand over the captaincy and offers Swallow SFA in mentoring as captain. We needed Jack out there and for what it's worth, I always felt that JZ should have been made captain ahead of Spitta.

Excellent post

 

[ozzyoslo]

We have a lot of players out of form, simple as that!! Cuddling and blowing wind up their rings hasnt worked, a spell in the 2's is what is needed. Gysberts, Jacobs, Greenwood, the yappy little runt we drafted this November McGuennis, Garner whoever it doesnt matter we've gifted games into some players now and they're are some who a blossomming but there are some who need a run in the VFL. Our season is done and dusted. Its time for coach Scott to play his role as coach and not as loving uncle.

 

[AbbaRoos]

Yeah I tend to agree. He had 3 quarters to fix it.

Spot one, Bon needed to point and bash someone rather than the screen. Should have done a Barassi and bloody well pointed out players and told them their efforts were piss weak. It seemed the only person who listened or understood the instructions was Lingy.

 

[AbbaRoos]

Its on all of them.

There have been some truly baffling coaching moves and there have been some equally baffling efforts from the players.

People need to be dropped and the coach and what he is doing needs to be reviewed.

We had Leigh Matthews speak at the coterie event the other day, we should call him back up and get him to come in and consult on our current coaching set up and practices. What we had Parkin do a couple of years ago.

Great post OF, if only it could happen, drop non performing players and get outside straight forward input from someone like Roos or Mathews. If you could make it happen......

 

[Bigeasy]

True, you can't. It's still interesting to compare and contrast the vitriol directed towards the club after the WC and Hawthorn games compared to GC and Adelaide.

Here are some of the issues:

Lack of "Shinboner Spirit" - Why wasn't this raised after the Hawthorn game? This board was pretty content with the performance. What about against the Eagles? Is "Shinboner Spirit" not a concern if we can blame the umpires?

Lack of leadership - Our captain and leadership group has been the same for every game. Are they doing something different when we play well compared to when we play badly?

Lack of experience - See above. Lack of experience didn't hold us back against the Hawks, and a few small errors cost us against WC. Why wasn't this issue raised after those games, but becomes a major talking point after the Crows loss.

All of those issues have been equally present in all of our games this season, but it's just convenient to bring them up after a poor loss for the purposes of venting rather than after a win or a close loss where we play quite well. It's just stupid.

This is not a very sound argument. The reason for the vitriol is because we keep making the same mistakes and things are not improving in fact we are going backwards.

I thought that was pretty obvious.

 

[Black Diamond]

This is not a very sound argument. The reason for the vitriol is because we keep making the same mistakes and things are not improving in fact we are going backwards.

I thought that was pretty obvious.

The WC game was the fourth time we lost a close one (if you count the Collingwood game as close) and the fifth time we have lost from a winning position (if you count Sydney). The vitriol didn't take off until after the Adelaide game though.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Because Adelaide were travelling very badly and our expectation was we should roll them the very same expectations were the same against GC..............if we are anywhere near where we should be in this pecking order we should have beaten these 2 sides.

 

[Black Diamond]

Ok. So basically the on the first four occasions experience, leadership and "Shinboner Spirit" weren't worthy of lengthy discussion (even though all of these issues have been raised on this board in the past) but the fifth occasion against Adelaide was the straw which broke the camel's back.

 

[Bigeasy]

The WC game was the fourth time we lost a close one (if you count the Collingwood game as close) and the fifth time we have lost from a winning position (if you count Sydney). The vitriol didn't take off until after the Adelaide game though.

We were trying to be patient.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

But then we got rolled by a more immature list that dominated the areas that we were dominating. That game was a total failure of systems and strengths. I thought we were past that. That we are not is a bloody massive worry.

I know it feels like a copout, but you know what the difference was? The weather. It's not very north-like, doesn't say much about Shinboner spirit, but the truth is we are a dry-weather team.

Now that feels a little dirty and soft, like being a frontrunner, but it stands to reason that we would develop in this manner. We play upwards of 11 games a year under a roof or in fine conditions. Of the remainder only a handful, if that, will be played in the wet. To get to finals we need to win a lot of dry weather games. But we do need to develop a side that can play in all conditions, that can get the job done in inclement weather. It's just not a surprise that it comes second.

 

[Kimbo]

Yes sir. Zero leadership on and off the ground.

I don't get it?!

 

[royals1922]

Because Adelaide were travelling very badly and our expectation was we should roll them the very same expectations were the same against GC..............if we are anywhere near where we should be in this pecking order we should have beaten these 2 sides.

NM are good enough to beat Adelaide and GC on their day, what they are not is good enough is to think they can beat them without effort.

 

[Archer_11]

Sorry can't find the right thread to say this but...I avoided the internet and all footy conversation for two whole days to watch the replay last night for this sh*t? Worst game in so long I can't remember. And this was to do with EFFORT, it breaks the heart it really does. 'Season on the line boys?' "Err, ok. But urm....it's raining Brad!' Tactics, composure, all these things we've been struggling with I had the faith. But now we can add ticker into the mix. We're screwed.

I still think we're the same team that almost beat Geelong et al. But it looks like that what we are working to deliver is something that will never stand up in the fiery furnaces of finals footy. Now we have clearly established that we can't even switch up against mid tier competition.

When I read what McKenna said during the week I thought 'thanks chief, that's the stupidest thing I've heard a coach say in the while'. But even with the smelly gym sock in the face and everyone laughing at us it looks like we still lack for motivation.

But back on the question, I would say coach and players as well. Whatever is stopping us from thinking clearly on the field and reacting appropriately is killing us.