Roast The Origins of Our Current Struggles, laid bare

[Masked Avenger]

The cause of our on field woes requires way too much rear vision mirror stuff for me when we should be focusing on how we dig our way out of this mess.

A good start might be recognising that we're in control of our own destiny. Might be hard to believe but we have choices like every other Club.

We can choose to drop poorly performing senior guys, because far from setting an example with their on field performances, they are now clearly impacting on the morale of the younger guys. It will be a death by a thousand cuts unless we act.

We can choose to drop a captain like Port did or even go a step further and relieve one or both of them permanently to shake the joint up.

We can choose to empower those players that show real intent and care for the jumper ( and who are AFL grade) by appointing them leaders accross the ground. Comben comes to mind back, Larkey forward and Sheezel between the arcs.

We can choose to play Sheezel, undeniably one of the best players going around, in the part of the ground where games are won and lost, in the middle permanently. Our opponents wouldn't want it and it might even assist LDU in the process.

We can choose to play players in their best and correct positions on the field and stop destroying their confidence and careers by doing the opposite.

We can choose to accept with one or two notable exceptions, the Club's future only lies with the younger players and the sooner we embrace that reality the better.

So much choice.

 

[disco_cowboy]

this was a poor use of time and poor analysis.

 

[Spud11]

The cause of our on field woes requires way too much rear vision mirror stuff for me when we should be focusing on how we dig our way out of this mess.

A good start might be recognising that we're in control of our own destiny. Might be hard to believe but we have choices like every other Club.

We can choose to drop poorly performing senior guys, because far from setting an example with their on field performances, they are now clearly impacting on the morale of the younger guys. It will be a death by a thousand cuts unless we act.

We can choose to drop a captain like Port did or even go a step further and relieve one or both of them permanently to shake the joint up.

We can choose to empower those players that show real intent and care for the jumper ( and who are AFL grade) by appointing them leaders accross the ground. Comben comes to mind back, Larkey forward and Sheezel between the arcs.

We can choose to play Sheezel, undeniably one of the best players going around, in the part of the ground where games are won and lost, in the middle permanently. Our opponents wouldn't want it and it might even assist LDU in the process.

We can choose to play players in their best and correct positions on the field and stop destroying their confidence and careers by doing the opposite.

We can choose to accept with one or two notable exceptions, the Club's future only lies with the younger players and the sooner we embrace that reality the better.

So much choice.

Shake the joint up, I love it.

 

[the_cleaner]

i remember leaving before half time against port adelaide in 2016 after watching corey wagner play. he might have been the worst footballer i’ve ever seen. how he is still on an afl list to this day as i write this boggles my mind!

 

[Smoocher]

Three words to describe our demise.

LAURA KANE APPOINTMENT.

LOL.

Begins and ends with her.

Our eagerness to go as woke as possible has bitten us in the _ _ _.

Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk

 

[disco_cowboy]

Three words to describe our demise.

LAURA KANE APPOINTMENT.

LOL.

Begins and ends with her.

Our eagerness to go as woke as possible has bitten us in the _ _ _.

Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk

please explain further

 

[Passmore]

please explain further

That's it. That's the tweet.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

 

[Del191229]

Three words to describe our demise.

LAURA KANE APPOINTMENT.

LOL.

Begins and ends with her.

Our eagerness to go as woke as possible has bitten us in the _ _ _.

Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk

Whatever happened to her?

If she was purely appointed for "woke" then surely she'll have been found out in the industry right?

 

[Moti]

The cause of our on field woes requires way too much rear vision mirror stuff for me when we should be focusing on how we dig our way out of this mess.

A good start might be recognising that we're in control of our own destiny. Might be hard to believe but we have choices like every other Club.

We can choose to drop poorly performing senior guys, because far from setting an example with their on field performances, they are now clearly impacting on the morale of the younger guys. It will be a death by a thousand cuts unless we act.

We can choose to drop a captain like Port did or even go a step further and relieve one or both of them permanently to shake the joint up.

We can choose to empower those players that show real intent and care for the jumper ( and who are AFL grade) by appointing them leaders accross the ground. Comben comes to mind back, Larkey forward and Sheezel between the arcs.

We can choose to play Sheezel, undeniably one of the best players going around, in the part of the ground where games are won and lost, in the middle permanently. Our opponents wouldn't want it and it might even assist LDU in the process.

We can choose to play players in their best and correct positions on the field and stop destroying their confidence and careers by doing the opposite.

We can choose to accept with one or two notable exceptions, the Club's future only lies with the younger players and the sooner we embrace that reality the better.

So much choice.

I'm not a high on Sheez in the middle, think he has a fair amount to learn and his lack of top end speed will be a lot more noticeable. Happy for the Forward/Mid role though.

 

[The Law]

Behold, laid bare and colour-coded for ease of understanding; the origins of the shitty situation we find ourselves on-field.

A few notes;

• This doesn't include the 2023 draft, as it would be unfair to include those kids this early. McKercher and Duurmas have both shown good signs, as has Riley Hardeman.
• This does not include the rookie draft/mid season draft.
• Nor does it include trades/free agents.

Over the last 12~ years we have only 'hit' on 14.2% of our draft picks. In the past 12 years in the National Draft we have successfully recruited only seven players who turned into genuinely good AFL footballers. Of those seven, two of which now play for different teams, and two of which are young kids selected in the 2022 draft.

Quite simply, the era of Cam Joyce and Glenn Luff left this club's playing stocks in tatters. Instead of adding an average of 2 solid best 22 guys per year, we were left with players who couldn't get games, couldn't stay healthy, or were just outright poor footballers.

Basically no team has ever won the flag without a solid 5-10 years of building a competitive list via good selections at the draft table in the lead up to their premiership tilt, and looking at this outline of how poor North's recruitment has been over the last decade-plus really makes it clear how much trouble we're in.


View attachment 1973069

Rather simplistic and some of the colour coding there is questionable. It's either intentional to push the narrative you're going with or intentional to get people to comment on your thread. Otherwise there would just be more calls to post it in the 'list management' thread. Knowing you, probably both.

Context matters. Some of the players that you've listed as 'bad picks' either had their career ended due to injuries or injuries basically ruined their chance of developing and it contributed to their demise. List management has been poor but so has our strength and conditioning staff.

• Curran - never got on the park. 3 years of recurring navicular stress fractures. So bad he was told to have a year off and not to do any running. Retired.
• Garner - soft tissue injury after soft tissue injury after soft tissue injury. Never got any continuation in his career.
• Jacobs - concussions. Retired.
• EVW - PCL, ACL (crashing into a post), dislocated toe during his comeback. Shadow of his former self when he returned.
• Watson - ACL, came back, injured his knee again. delisted.
• Walker - long-term knee injury with multiple set-backs (landing awkwardly in a marking contest). Potentially mismanaged. Like EVW, a shadow of his former self.
• Hayden - ruptured Achilles in his debut. Came back the next season and had his season ended early thanks to a knee injury. Following season an adductor injury ended his season as he was making a comeback. Never got a chance thanks to his body. Achilles injuries are terrible especially for explosive athletes - just ask Swallow. He was never the same after his.
• Perez - two ACLs. Never the same. Probably a risk picking him given he came to us with the injury.

Currie was a stop gap because Daw was injury prone and if Goldstein went down we were beyond screwed. Tom Campbell like recruit. Happens all the time in the AFL.

Phillips is still too soon. Getting glandular fever twice is pretty unlucky. Deserves more time before being written off as a miss. If he doesn't make inroads this season it's probably fair to go down that 'miss' path.

When you mix bad recruiting with poor injury luck and second-rate staff = a Bermuda triangle of shit.

 

[Pres]

Personally I don't mind the graphic although I disagree with a few of the categorisations (Jacobs, EVW).

Is there any way to overlay the list manager/coach/head recruiter/development coach/President at the time against each of these years for greater context?

 

[The Law]

I actually think Hartung was bad list management. We've lacked pace in our attacking half for eons and we delist the one person that had it in spades. Not to mention his elite work-rate/running capacity. Tidy user of the ball. Could kick goals from outside 50 on the run. Then we end up recruiting a taller more injury prone version (Polec) and plonk Dumont on the other side. "but Hartung isn't a great tackler!" - 99.9% of North supporters because we are always obsessed with tough in and under types that can tackle.

The other AFL teams were recruiting speed, running power, and tactics that involved playing on at all cost. North on the other hand resorted to picking up one-paced mids or half forwards. It's not like we had Williams or Walker for the role (one was delisted at the same time and the other injured). Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

gets trialled on the wing at Saints and hits AA form. We never thought to do the same...

We could have even been tried as a running half-back to help generate some attack from our back half like we do now (back then we had Tarrant and Thompson to organise the defence and tended to play with a spare back anyway).

Or even a small forward (we had nothing else besides Turner and Hrovat ).

For over a decade we were tone deaf and completely missed the direction the game was trending. Shit, we wasted a year training for long distance while every other team were focused on shorter high intensity running.

 

[R00StaR]

I'm not a high on Sheez in the middle, think he has a fair amount to learn and his lack of top end speed will be a lot more noticeable. Happy for the Forward/Mid role though.

It was on the weekend with him being burnt off a few times.

 

[DesertRoo]

Whatever happened to her?

If she was purely appointed for "woke" then surely she'll have been found out in the industry right?

She did manage to boot TT from the AFL.

 

[Samsquanch]

Hartung

But didn't his father annoy somebody or something like that?

His demise is still something that I consider to be a bit weird.

 

[The Law]

But didn't his father annoy somebody or something like that?

His demise is still something that I consider to be a bit weird.

Those were the rumours going around at the time but I don't think it was definitive. Even if it was it's a pretty stupid reason to delist someone.

 

[The Dingrel]

NONONO, you're all wrong......

."North Melbourne's self-inflicted demise into mediocrity would be aware I have always traced it back to the dreadfully managed sacking of club games record holder Brent Harvey

Brent Harvey

Age

46

Ht

167cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.2

5star

HB

8.2

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.1

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

6.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.2

2star

T

0.6

3star

G

0.6

3star

, along with Nick Dal Santo

Nick Dal Santo

Age

40

Ht

185cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.9

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

9.9

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

3.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

, Drew Petrie

Drew Petrie

Age

42

Ht

197cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.3

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

5.2

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.2

2star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.0

1star

and Michael Firrito

Michael Firrito

Age

41

Ht

189cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.8

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.3

4star

MG

291.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.4

4star

during 2016." Damo.

Must be fact,,,,,,does he know how to punctuate? He writes like he speaks, parody of himself....and we don't even need Souva to remind us!

 

[Del191229]

Behold, laid bare and colour-coded for ease of understanding; the origins of the shitty situation we find ourselves on-field.

A few notes;

• This doesn't include the 2023 draft, as it would be unfair to include those kids this early. McKercher and Duurmas have both shown good signs, as has Riley Hardeman.
• This does not include the rookie draft/mid season draft.
• Nor does it include trades/free agents.

Over the last 12~ years we have only 'hit' on 14.2% of our draft picks. In the past 12 years in the National Draft we have successfully recruited only seven players who turned into genuinely good AFL footballers. Of those seven, two of which now play for different teams, and two of which are young kids selected in the 2022 draft.

Quite simply, the era of Cam Joyce and Glenn Luff left this club's playing stocks in tatters. Instead of adding an average of 2 solid best 22 guys per year, we were left with players who couldn't get games, couldn't stay healthy, or were just outright poor footballers.

Basically no team has ever won the flag without a solid 5-10 years of building a competitive list via good selections at the draft table in the lead up to their premiership tilt, and looking at this outline of how poor North's recruitment has been over the last decade-plus really makes it clear how much trouble we're in.


View attachment 1973069

Lol I actually bothered to look at this and having TG as a "miss/bad pick" lololololol.

The bloke could play like nobody's business, just had hideous luck with injuries.

He played one of the great quarters in a final by a North player I've ever seen ffs.

Just laughable analysis.

 

[BigRedRoo]

Yes I agree that our extremely poor recruiting is one of the reasons we are currently without any senior players worth a dam.

But there are other reasons as well.
Starting with our total inability to develop players.
Going after Big Fish which just made us look desperate.
The over estimation of the playing list 2015, which lead to not trading out any players, when we should have been seeking renewal. I still remember Sydney wanting to take Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

off our hands, instead we kept him for two more years then sacked him and got nothing. I don't recall us trading anyone out, rather just chewing them up and spitting them out.

I use to play who we coulda had, by looking at previous drafts and seeing who we drafted and who we could have picked up.
The Lachy Hansen pick right in front of Selwood was my personal favorite. I don't play this game anymore as it makes me depressed.

 

[the_cleaner]

please explain further

second this. see soo many people in the north groups saying the clubs gone woke. how have we gone woke? us going woke is the reason we didn’t have an anzac guernsey apparently.