Kurve
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Current The Commission of Inquiry into Forensic DNA Testing in Queensland
BFew
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Using a dishwasher, bleach and ethanol to clean bone/teeth cutting implements, to save time and money.
Sounds like a shortcut to cleaning tools he found on youtube.
McNevin obviously needs some lessons in how to load a dishwasher properly.
Does he even do housework manually? Maybe not his job.
Sounds like a shortcut to cleaning tools he found on youtube.
McNevin obviously needs some lessons in how to load a dishwasher properly.
Does he even do housework manually? Maybe not his job.
BFew
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BFew
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If only they had locked the dishwasher as well as the stationary cupboard. 
MSB ROYS
Brownlow Medallist
My thoughts after listening to the latest podcast.
- The police need to seriously consider employing some people have more forensic/statistics knowledge; don't just put someone in charge of the unit if they don't understand the science.
- When the police finally realised that there were major issues, the obscuration by some bureaucrats (Qld Health, Police and Government) was appalling but not surprising. Sorry but you can't just sweep such major issues under the carpet and quietly fix them.
- I was happy to hear that the bench scientists were raising issues. Seeing sperm under the microscope and not getting a DNA profile is ridiculous!
- Working in a toxic environment is bad enough (who hasn't been there unfortunately), but what people have to realise who are outside of science is that there are so few jobs that they probably had to stay if they wanted to work in this area in Qld. Also, do you think that other state labs would want people for the Qld labs also?
BFew
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Today we might get to find out why the dishwasher was left unlocked.If only they had locked the dishwasher as well as the stationary cupboard.
I guess that if you are cleaning tools by hand, it's easier to get blamed for not doing a good cleaning job, and requires a lot less time and effort than using a dishwasher.
I wonder who McNevin will try blame for this time-saving process dis-improvement?
'DNA lab inquiry: Rape victims underwent invasive procedures in vain'
'8:53PM OCTOBER 17, 2022''In May this year, Ms Keller noticed chisels used to chip away bones for DNA testing were “rusty due to the new cleaning regime”.
Mr McNevin is expected to face questioning about his rationale for new cleaning procedures at Tuesday’s hearing.'
Forensic scientists at troubled lab found this blood sample had 'no DNA', inquiry hears
Commissioner Walter Sofronoff KC said the lab was run like a production line where DNA analysts would process a sample without knowing whether it was blood, semen or saliva.
www.abc.net.au
Commissioner Walter Sofronoff KC said the lab was run like a production line where DNA analysts would process a sample without knowing whether it was blood, semen, or saliva "because that would involve time taken to think".
"Nobody is required to apply any thought or context to the work they're doing except to get the technical side of it done correctly," Mr Sofronoff said.
"So absolutely no thinking apart from ensuring the work has been done correctly according to scientific standards."
The inquiry was shown a photograph of a blood splatter from which a sample was found to contain "no DNA".
BFew
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Last nights epic Hedley Thomas weekly Shandees Legacy podcast on the inquiry is both thoroughly depressing and gobsmacking
+ a whole lot of links to the "gaslight" movies, and stage play.
If gaslighting triggers you like it did one of the witnesses at the QLD Forensic DNA test labs inquiry this week, think twice b4 read/listen/watching on.
omny.fm
Gas Light - Wikipedia (the 1938 stage play)
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
An adaption of the 1938 State Play
full movie (1940)
trailer (1944) - full movie available to rent/buy stream online at Prime etc
podcast analysing the 1944 movie v the 1938 stage play (Gas Light)
Full movie (2022)
+ a whole lot of links to the "gaslight" movies, and stage play.
If gaslighting triggers you like it did one of the witnesses at the QLD Forensic DNA test labs inquiry this week, think twice b4 read/listen/watching on.
Shandee's Legacy Episode 4: Gaslit - Shandee's Story
Four weeks in, one question lingers in the Walter Sofronoff-led Commission of Inquiry into Queensland's state-run forensics lab: who knew what and when? In this week's episode, Hedley Thomas, Claire Harvey, Matthew Condon, and David Murray further unpack the toxic treatment of scientists who...
omny.fm
Gas Light - Wikipedia (the 1938 stage play)
Gaslight (1940 film) - Wikipedia
Gaslight (1944 film) - Wikipedia
An adaption of the 1938 State Play
full movie (1940)
trailer (1944) - full movie available to rent/buy stream online at Prime etc
podcast analysing the 1944 movie v the 1938 stage play (Gas Light)
Full movie (2022)
Watch Gaslight | Prime Video
Brooke notices her inheritance begins to disappear. Her life becomes unstable as she becomes unsure if her husband and loved ones are plotting to steal her inheritance or if she's losing her mind.
www.amazon.com
MSB ROYS
Brownlow Medallist
Last week I thought it couldn't get worse. I was wrong.
BFew
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Alexander Gell should be suing the QLD Government for their part in the huge Forensic DNA Lab catastrophe that resulted in a highly dangerous Peros not being convicted and locked up for decades in a QLD jail during the period Gell was allegedly assaulted by Peros.
see here for details of the John Peros trial that got underway in Perth today (assault occasioning bodily harm over an incident at a Pilbara mine site in June 2020)
see here for details of the John Peros trial that got underway in Perth today (assault occasioning bodily harm over an incident at a Pilbara mine site in June 2020)
Forensic lab boss failed to heed the stern warning of a scientist that led to a DNA testing scandal
Lara Keller tells an inquiry into forensic DNA testing in Queensland that, although she is a scientist by background, she had no experience in DNA profiling.
www.abc.net.au
Laura Keller at the Commission
She told Mr Sofronoff that although she had scientific training, she had no experience in DNA profiling.
The inquiry heard Ms Keller first became aware of problems with DNA testing of major crime scene samples in December last year when she was copied into a chain of emails between Ms Allen and Queensland Police Inspector David Neville.
But she told Mr Sofronoff that at that stage she did not seek to inform herself about the problems or how they had arisen, having only been in the job less than three months at the time.
"I expected that Cathie would address those concerns on behalf of that team," Ms Keller said.
MSB ROYS
Brownlow Medallist
Major problems, in the public domain, but that is someone else's issue. Won't even try to understand the issues. This is not leadership.
Forensic lab boss failed to heed the stern warning of a scientist that led to a DNA testing scandal
Lara Keller tells an inquiry into forensic DNA testing in Queensland that, although she is a scientist by background, she had no experience in DNA profiling.
Laura Keller at the Commission
She told Mr Sofronoff that although she had scientific training, she had no experience in DNA profiling.
The inquiry heard Ms Keller first became aware of problems with DNA testing of major crime scene samples in December last year when she was copied into a chain of emails between Ms Allen and Queensland Police Inspector David Neville.
But she told Mr Sofronoff that at that stage she did not seek to inform herself about the problems or how they had arisen, having only been in the job less than three months at the time.
"I expected that Cathie would address those concerns on behalf of that team," Ms Keller said.
This wouldn’t fly in any work environment... unbelievable.
This is just what I have been waiting for is the managers to get under the pump!!!
www.abc.net.au
Justin Howes on the stand for day 2. Snippets from the article
During the inquiry, counsel assisting also alleged lab boss Cathie Allen did not want an update report to be revealed to other members of senior management.
Mr Hodge put to Mr Howes that he understood he should keep the report a secret from other members of management – an assertion Mr Howes denied.
"I don't think it occurred to me in terms of keeping it secret," he said.
Mr Howes was questioned about an email exchange in November, 2018, in which he declined to speak up when misleading information about DNA testing processes was provided to police.
The inquiry heard Ms Allen instead told police scientists were "bound by the code of conduct" and were "committed to ensuring the best outcome for the public".
A final report will be handed down in December. The inquiry continues.
From yesterday
Inquiry hears lab boss commended for 'great email' misleading Queensland police
A manager at Queensland's state-run forensic lab faces a tense grilling over his response to grave concerns about DNA testing, and for allowing police to be misled.
www.abc.net.au
Justin Howes on the stand for day 2. Snippets from the article
During the inquiry, counsel assisting also alleged lab boss Cathie Allen did not want an update report to be revealed to other members of senior management.
Mr Hodge put to Mr Howes that he understood he should keep the report a secret from other members of management – an assertion Mr Howes denied.
"I don't think it occurred to me in terms of keeping it secret," he said.
Howes accused of 'standing by' while police were misled
The inquiry also heard how Mr Howes allowed police to be misled about DNA testing, saying, in hindsight, he should have spoken up.Mr Howes was questioned about an email exchange in November, 2018, in which he declined to speak up when misleading information about DNA testing processes was provided to police.
The inquiry heard Ms Allen instead told police scientists were "bound by the code of conduct" and were "committed to ensuring the best outcome for the public".
A final report will be handed down in December. The inquiry continues.
From yesterday
Forensic lab boss failed to heed the stern warning of a scientist that led to a DNA testing scandal
Lara Keller tells an inquiry into forensic DNA testing in Queensland that, although she is a scientist by background, she had no experience in DNA profiling.
www.abc.net.au
Forensic lab boss failed to heed the stern warning of a scientist that led to a DNA testing scandal
Lara Keller tells an inquiry into forensic DNA testing in Queensland that, although she is a scientist by background, she had no experience in DNA profiling.
www.abc.net.au
Acting head of Queensland forensics lab says she had no experience in DNA profiling, did not understand 'urgent' police concerns
Another interesting article.
Inappropriate... but hope the scientists are having a popcorn party. Finally they are being heard and acknowledged for their expertise and concerns. Albeit it at the expense of victims that have suffered the consequences of this major stuff up.This is just what I have been waiting for is the managers to get under the pump!!!
Inquiry hears lab boss commended for 'great email' misleading Queensland police
A manager at Queensland's state-run forensic lab faces a tense grilling over his response to grave concerns about DNA testing, and for allowing police to be misled.
Justin Howes on the stand for day 2. Snippets from the article
During the inquiry, counsel assisting also alleged lab boss Cathie Allen did not want an update report to be revealed to other members of senior management.
Mr Hodge put to Mr Howes that he understood he should keep the report a secret from other members of management – an assertion Mr Howes denied.
"I don't think it occurred to me in terms of keeping it secret," he said.
Howes accused of 'standing by' while police were misled
The inquiry also heard how Mr Howes allowed police to be misled about DNA testing, saying, in hindsight, he should have spoken up.
Mr Howes was questioned about an email exchange in November, 2018, in which he declined to speak up when misleading information about DNA testing processes was provided to police.
The inquiry heard Ms Allen instead told police scientists were "bound by the code of conduct" and were "committed to ensuring the best outcome for the public".
A final report will be handed down in December. The inquiry continues.
From yesterday
BFew
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I wondered how long it would take for one of the key alleged culprits of this inquiry to pull out the health card.
Was not expecting that they (Mr Howes) would do this 4 years retrospectively.
Ms Allens take on discussions with QLD Police about the P2 DNA samples are going to be interesting.
I assume that after her response, that QLD Police she was communicating with, will be called back to respond to what Ms Allen says occurs.
I imagine that QLD Police will at least continue to claim that they were misled by Ms Allen.
And that things will probably descend into a "he said", "she said" game, combined with lots of don't remembers and don't recalls.
'....
Commissioner Walter Sofronoff KC also asked Mr Howes to explain why he hadn’t responded to concerns raised by another scientist, Emma Caunt, the month the threshold was introduced. Ms Caunt’s email cited a rape case in which the only forensic evidence to substantiate the victim’s claim would have been missed if the threshold had been in place at the time.
Mr Sofronoff: “What was your frame of mind that meant that you didn’t do anything? I just think that’s strange.”
Mr Howes: “I don’t think I was particularly well at that point.”
Previously, Mr Howes told the inquiry he was stressed from conflict between scientists at the lab, and that he had “sought some help for that”....'
...
'Mr Howes also faced questions about whether the lab sabotaged testing after the inquiry was announced in an attempted cover-up. After being ordered by the head of the health department to revert to pre-threshold methods, the lab started testing all samples but cut out the crucial concentration step. Mr Hodge suggested the step may have been left out on purpose, so the lab would not find usable DNA profiles when testing below the threshold.
Mr Howes accepted it was not best practice and that it was immediately obvious to him scientists would be far less likely to obtain a DNA profile as a result.
Mr Howes also admitted the lab should not have stopped testing crucial “Priority 1” samples, reserved for cases with the greatest threat to public safety.
Mr Howes told the inquiry the “P1” samples were never meant to be included in the threshold when he brought the idea to police with Ms Allen. Subsequently, Ms Allen informed the lab’s management team that senior police had told her the threshold should also be applied to P1 samples. Mr Howes said he assumed it was decided in discussions with police that he was not a part of.
He agreed it was “unacceptable” that P1 samples below the threshold weren’t tested. “These are the most crucial samples in the laboratory,” he said.'
Was not expecting that they (Mr Howes) would do this 4 years retrospectively.
Ms Allens take on discussions with QLD Police about the P2 DNA samples are going to be interesting.
I assume that after her response, that QLD Police she was communicating with, will be called back to respond to what Ms Allen says occurs.
I imagine that QLD Police will at least continue to claim that they were misled by Ms Allen.
And that things will probably descend into a "he said", "she said" game, combined with lots of don't remembers and don't recalls.
'DNA lab chief Justin Howes admits ‘complete failure of duty’
9:46PM OCTOBER 26, 2022'....
Commissioner Walter Sofronoff KC also asked Mr Howes to explain why he hadn’t responded to concerns raised by another scientist, Emma Caunt, the month the threshold was introduced. Ms Caunt’s email cited a rape case in which the only forensic evidence to substantiate the victim’s claim would have been missed if the threshold had been in place at the time.
Mr Sofronoff: “What was your frame of mind that meant that you didn’t do anything? I just think that’s strange.”
Mr Howes: “I don’t think I was particularly well at that point.”
Previously, Mr Howes told the inquiry he was stressed from conflict between scientists at the lab, and that he had “sought some help for that”....'
...
'Mr Howes also faced questions about whether the lab sabotaged testing after the inquiry was announced in an attempted cover-up. After being ordered by the head of the health department to revert to pre-threshold methods, the lab started testing all samples but cut out the crucial concentration step. Mr Hodge suggested the step may have been left out on purpose, so the lab would not find usable DNA profiles when testing below the threshold.
Mr Howes accepted it was not best practice and that it was immediately obvious to him scientists would be far less likely to obtain a DNA profile as a result.
Mr Howes also admitted the lab should not have stopped testing crucial “Priority 1” samples, reserved for cases with the greatest threat to public safety.
Mr Howes told the inquiry the “P1” samples were never meant to be included in the threshold when he brought the idea to police with Ms Allen. Subsequently, Ms Allen informed the lab’s management team that senior police had told her the threshold should also be applied to P1 samples. Mr Howes said he assumed it was decided in discussions with police that he was not a part of.
He agreed it was “unacceptable” that P1 samples below the threshold weren’t tested. “These are the most crucial samples in the laboratory,” he said.'
BFew
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What's Ms Allen going to pull out of the hat to top this?
A retrospective with hindsight diagnosis of a severe mental health/personality disorder?
And blame its onset, on the environment that she developed her career in, and the general culture within the QLD Public Service and QLD Department of Health?
BFew
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Ms Allen was due to give evidence this afternoon, after Mr Howes completed his evidence today.
No evidence yet in media reports or on social media that Ms Allen actually commenced giving evidence this afternoon.
Did anyone catch the live stream later today to see what happened when/if Mr Howes finished giving his evidence?
A whole lot of place-markers are listed today for Ms Howes related exhibits (see below).
None of the exhibit document links for today are live yet.
www.dnainquiry.qld.gov.au
No evidence yet in media reports or on social media that Ms Allen actually commenced giving evidence this afternoon.
Did anyone catch the live stream later today to see what happened when/if Mr Howes finished giving his evidence?
A whole lot of place-markers are listed today for Ms Howes related exhibits (see below).
None of the exhibit document links for today are live yet.
Hearing exhibits | The Commission of Inquiry into Forensic DNA Testing in Queensland
Lab boss chokes back tears as she finally fronts DNA inquiry, blames 'human error'
The head of Queensland's troubled forensics lab is accused of deliberately lying in order to cover up a decision that led to thousands of samples going untested, and potential crimes unsolved.
www.abc.net.au
She is on the stand as she suddenly realises she is toxic appearing via videolink. Worst result for the public for $20,000 and less workload. I suspect the workload would be the cost. The "it wasn't me defence". Wonder if they are going to question her about how she created a toxic workplace?
Queensland forensic lab boss Cathie Allen chokes back tears as she finally fronts DNA inquiry
Key points:
- Managing scientist Cathie Allen was accused of recommending a less-preferable DNA testing process out of personal gain
- She agreed she did not recommend the process that was widely considered "best practice" for lab samples
- She said it was down to "human error" on the day
Mr Hodge accused Ms Allen of deliberately recommending the less preferred option as she was motivated by personal gain.
"It would be to your personal advantage because it would perhaps help you avoid criticism for the decision you had made and brought about in 2018," he said.
Ms Allen continuously denied the assertion, describing it as "human error".
"The evidence you are giving is a lie isn't it," counsel assisting Michael Hodge put to her.
"No, I'm not lying. I genuinely made a mistake on that day."
"The evidence you have given this afternoon about having made an error on the third of June in the information you communicated is false," Mr Hodge said.
"No, that's not true," Ms Allen said choking back tears.
"I made a human error and I have berated myself ever since for that, but I made a human error."
BFew
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Mr Howe now appears to be angling for a workers comp claim and damages for being suspended on full pay without being provided a clear private explanation.
And setting things up for getting health related leniency, if he is charged and/or successfully prosecuted related to this Commission of Inquiry.
Lab boss chokes back tears as she finally fronts DNA inquiry, blames 'human error'
The head of Queensland's troubled forensics lab is accused of deliberately lying in order to cover up a decision that led to thousands of samples going untested, and potential crimes unsolved.
www.abc.net.au
The inquiry heard Mr Howes was given no clear explanation when he was stood down from his role with full pay in September.
He testified that he was informed by a family member, who had listened in to the inquiry, that his suspension was to "provide space" to staff within the lab while the investigation took place.
Mr Howes told the hearing this had impacted his health.
"I've been feeling not myself and have been seeking help for mental and physical health. Certainly in the last month more than anything," Mr Howes told the inquiry.'
BFew
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At the core of this QLD Forensic/Legal disaster and Tragedy of Errors,
is the appalling Governance of the Lab and QLD Health mismanagement.
As key stakeholders, QLD Department of Justice and Attorney General and QLD Police (over the years to varying degrees) are also obviously implicated in serious Governance and Risk mis-management related to all of this.
IMO, doesn't need inquiry findings to conclude this, from what has been revealed so far
is the appalling Governance of the Lab and QLD Health mismanagement.
As key stakeholders, QLD Department of Justice and Attorney General and QLD Police (over the years to varying degrees) are also obviously implicated in serious Governance and Risk mis-management related to all of this.
IMO, doesn't need inquiry findings to conclude this, from what has been revealed so far
BFew
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These last few days, both Mr Howes and Ms Allen appear to have gaslit themselves at this inquiry.
BFew
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The audio replay and transcript of yesterday's inquiry hearing is already out.
www.dnainquiry.qld.gov.au
Hearing transcripts | The Commission of Inquiry into Forensic DNA Testing in Queensland
| Thursday 27 October 2022 | Public Hearing - Module 4, Day 20 | Listen to the recordings: | Download transcript(PDF, 976MB) |
BFew
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Hedley Thomas had more to say on this in a video interview 3 days ago.
The QLD Police Minister was either Utterly negligent and a fool for not demanding to be briefed, or utterly negligent for being briefed, not acting on it, and telling us that he was not briefed ... said Hedley.
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