THe Crows and their Contracts

[ash23]

The crows have got to do something bout there contracts with the players, give the players what they want IF there worth it!!!!
Of course players are gonna leave if the crows offer them a shit contract and another club offers a much better one, they need to sort it out we cant keep losing good players like that,
First hudson then welsh even Mcgregor was goning to leave!!!!
What is with the adelaide football club?!?!?!?
im very suprised macca and goodwin and edwards and biglands and burton havent shipped off to another club yet.

 

[BlackDouglas]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

The crows have got to do something bout there contracts with the players, give the players what they want IF there worth it!!!! Of course players are gonna leave if the crows offer them a shit contract and another club offers a much better one, they need to sort it out we cant keep losing good players like that,
First hudson then welsh even Mcgregor was goning to leave!!!!
What is with the adelaide football club?!?!?!?
im very suprised macca and goodwin and edwards and biglands and burton havent shipped off to another club yet.

FFS the club is not going to offer a shit contract to a player they want to keep, that is not going to happen. It is obvious to me that the club weighed up the situation and stood firm by looking towards the next 6 or 7 years.

In all reality it is obvious that we are now entering a rebuilding phase and the list is being overhauled. Ben Hudson, Scott Welsh, and to a lesser degree Marty Mattner were all expendable and not part of the long term plans. They were only given a minimal contract for a specific reason and this suited the clubs best interest. If the club wanted them to stay they would have been offered better deals but they were not in the clubs long term plans so if they left (which they did) the club knew it wouldn’t lead to dire consequences if they took a better offer.

Can anyone honestly say that they can see another club outbidding us for Ben Rutten, Scott Thompson, Nathan Van Berlo, Nathan Bock, ect, ect. Players we want to keep for the long term future? HELL NO.

It’s not like we have allowed a multitude of younger player to take better offers from other clubs, we have lost a few 28 year old who have a limited life span in this game.

If we were still a premiership threat, Hudson, Welsh and Matter would have stayed but we are not. They were allowed to leave because we are looking towards the future.

 

[Farmy]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Welsh and Hudson aren't/weren't worth offering contracts to.

All our other Ruckmen have more talent in their fingers than Hudson did.
Welsh was inconsistent and rarely used his talent.

Not much of a loss.

The Adelaide Football club does not want mercenaries who have no heart and cause off field trouble.

We want Nathan Van Berlos and Ben Ruttens and Andrew Mcleods.

You seem to be confused, good players get offered good contracts, ordinary players with no heart get traded or delisted to the Western Bulldogs.

im very suprised macca and goodwin and edwards and biglands and burton havent shipped off to another club yet.

Because they are good unlike the other players you have mentioned (excluding Kenny).

 

[mb2326]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

FFS the club is not going to offer a shit contract to a player they want to keep, that is not going to happen. It is obvious to me that the club weighed up the situation and stood firm by looking towards the next 6 or 7 years.

In all reality it is obvious that we are now entering a rebuilding phase and the list is being overhauled. Ben Hudson, Scott Welsh, and to a lesser degree Marty Mattner were all expendable and not part of the long term plans. They were only given a minimal contract for a specific reason and this suited the clubs best interest. If the club wanted them to stay they would have been offered better deals but they were not in the clubs long term plans so if they left (which they did) the club knew it wouldn’t lead to dire consequences if they took a better offer.

Can anyone honestly say that they can see another club outbidding us for Ben Rutten, Scott Thompson, Nathan Van Berlo, Nathan Bock, ect, ect. Players we want to keep for the long term future? HELL NO.

It’s not like we have allowed a multitude of younger player to take better offers from other clubs, we have lost a few 28 year old who have a limited life span in this game.

If we were still a premiership threat, Hudson, Welsh and Matter would have stayed but we are not. They were allowed to leave because we are looking towards the future.

So basically, if you are not in the top 3 players in the club and you are 27 - 28 years old, its best to start shopping around for a 3 year contract because the crows rigid policy dictates that no player who is not a star will get any more than a 1 or 2 year deal.

 

[mb2326]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Welsh and Hudson aren't/weren't worth offering contracts to.

All our other Ruckmen have more talent in their fingers than Hudson did.
Welsh was inconsistent and rarely used his talent.

Not much of a loss.

The Adelaide Football club does not want mercenaries who have no heart and cause off field trouble.

We want Nathan Van Berlos and Ben Ruttens and Andrew Mcleods.

You seem to be confused, good players get offered good contracts, ordinary players with no heart get traded or delisted to the Western Bulldogs.



Because they are good unlike the other players you have mentioned (excluding Kenny).

Where do players like Doughty, Shirley and Jericho fit in then? These hacks are no where near the quality of Welsh, Torney and Hudson, yet they remain in our list. This is complete incosistency from the Crows and it is the main reason why the list changes this year are impossible to comprehend. From the outside it looks as though NC and co have no idea.

 

[BlackDouglas]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

So basically, if you are not in the top 3 players in the club and you are 27 - 28 years old, its best to start shopping around for a 3 year contract because the crows rigid policy dictates that no player who is not a star will get any more than a 1 or 2 year deal.

No I got it wrong . As soon as possible the AFC should go to the filing cabinet and grab Michael Doughty, Brett Burtons, Kris Massie, Ken McGregor, Robert Shirley contract and tear them up. That’s right tear them up and make them null and void.

THEN

Go and offer all of theses great club man 5 year deals so we spend the next few year stuck in mediocrity and we don’t loss any of them to any other club and keep them around the joint for the next 300 AFL games.

FFS – where is this football club heading and how are we going to win a premiership with mediocre second tier players.

(Oh BTW – I was being sarcastic because keeping mediocre players around longer than they need to be is stupid)

At this point of time? Abso – ****ing- lutely.

In 5 or 6 year time when the list has been turned over, it will be different but right now only offering minimal contracts to this playing demographic is the best thing.

 

[Farmy]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Where do players like Doughty, Shirley and Jericho fit in then? These hacks are no where near the quality of Welsh, Torney and Hudson, yet they remain in our list. This is complete incosistency from the Crows and it is the main reason why the list changes this year are impossible to comprehend. From the outside it looks as though NC and co have no idea.

You underate Shirley, his position as a tagger is not immediately required for a younger player, Shirley is also playing really well and it seems has a great attitude.
Jericho is young, the others are not.
Doughty is contracted until the end of 2008

Welsh is an inconsistent forward who only ever kicks bags against crap teams and rarely used the talent he had available to him, compound this with his injury plagued body and poor off field behavior and you have yourself a candidate for delisting.

Sorry, Hudson is an ordinary Ruckman, if he was a champion ruckman we would have offered him 3 years or we would have gotten more for the trade.

Torney is a champion, he was just too old. The position Torney played is the prefered spot for a couple of youngsters in our side, I imagine the reasoning is that the younger players need to be developed in that position, it was a list management decision.

So thats why those players remain and and the others go, you are underating the ones that have stayed and overating the ones that have left.

From the outside it looks as though NC and co have no idea.

Not really.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

All our other Ruckmen have more talent in their fingers than Hudson did.
Welsh was inconsistent and rarely used his talent.

Not much of a loss.

You are kidding right?

Hudson is no Cox, but easily our best ruckman at this point in time. Maric/Griffin may become better players, but are not there yet. Biglands is not as good as Hudson.

Welsh was so inconsistent he led our goal-kicking & was usually a key contributor in most of our wins last season.

I can understand the club's stance not giving these guys longer-term deals, particularly given their off field issues, but this doesn't mean we will miss 2 1st choice team players.

 

[cocka]

The crows have got to do something bout there contracts with the players, give the players what they want IF there worth it!!!!
Of course players are gonna leave if the crows offer them a shit contract and another club offers a much better one, they need to sort it out we cant keep losing good players like that,
First hudson then welsh even Mcgregor was goning to leave!!!!
What is with the adelaide football club?!?!?!?
im very suprised macca and goodwin and edwards and biglands and burton havent shipped off to another club yet.

You answered your own question .... They ain't worth it. End of Thread.

IMO - I wish McGregor and Burton were on that ship.

 

[Drummond]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Welsh and Hudson aren't/weren't worth offering contracts to.

All our other Ruckmen have more talent in their fingers than Hudson did.
Welsh was inconsistent and rarely used his talent.

Not much of a loss.

The Adelaide Football club does not want mercenaries who have no heart and cause off field trouble.

We want Nathan Van Berlos and Ben Ruttens and Andrew Mcleods.

You seem to be confused, good players get offered good contracts, ordinary players with no heart get traded or delisted to the Western Bulldogs.



Because they are good unlike the other players you have mentioned (excluding Kenny).

Ha! What a load of rubbish. Hudson might not be the most naturally talented ruckman in the league, and yes he relied on effort more than pure skill, but to say all our other ruckmen have more talent in their fingers than Hudson did is just rubbish. Don't you love it how all of a sudden a player goes from great to an absolute dud when they leave your team? Funny how that works.

Griffin's played 16 games and in half of them he didn't look AFL standard. Maric has played 14 and has looked like a good prospect. They both however are still raw and unproven and they might never reach the level Hudson is currently at. So you might hate Hudson for leaving but how about you show some respect for his ability?

Oh and if you believe Welsh is "heartless" for leaving then that's ridiculous. Everyone knows he was going to be dumped at the end of 2008, so give me one reason why he shouldn't take a guaranteed 2 year deal from the Dogs?

 

[Farmy]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

You are kidding right?

Hudson is no Cox, but easily our best ruckman at this point in time. Maric/Griffin may become better players, but are not there yet. Biglands is not as good as Hudson.

Welsh was so inconsistent he led our goal-kicking & was usually a key contributor in most of our wins last season.

I can understand the club's stance not giving these guys longer-term deals, particularly given their off field issues, but this doesn't mean we will miss 2 1st choice team players.

Hudson is no Cox, yet some people are making him out to be. I realise that the younger guys in Maric and Griffin aren't there yet, but they will potentially be far better than Ben Hudson is/ever will be at the Bulldogs.

Welsh was inconsistent, while yeah he did lead our goalkicking, so what next year Welsh's replacement will kick a similar amount of goals if he is given a similar level of service to what Welsh was given.

 

[Farmy]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Ha! What a load of rubbish. Hudson might not be the most naturally talented ruckman in the league, and yes he relied on effort more than pure skill, but to say all our other ruckmen have more talent in their fingers than Hudson did is just rubbish. Don't you love it how all of a sudden a player goes from great to an absolute dud when they leave your team? Funny how that works.

Griffin's played 16 games and in half of them he didn't look AFL standard. Maric has played 14 and has looked like a good prospect. They both however are still raw and unproven and they might never reach the level Hudson is currently at. So you might hate Hudson for leaving but how about you show some respect for his ability?

Oh and if you believe Welsh is "heartless" for leaving then that's ridiculous. Everyone knows he was going to be dumped at the end of 2008, so give me one reason why he shouldn't take a guaranteed 2 year deal from the Dogs?

Funny I don't recall ever saying Hudson was a great player? He was always a serviceable ruckman who was a stop gap solution to our ruck woes.

I don't believe Welsh is heartless for leaving, I just believe Welsh is plain heartless.

 

[subaru]

Who knows what's going on there at AFC - seems to me the management (I use that therm loosely) want saints and robots - not proven good 50 goals forwards. Well, role models aren't going to win you any games. Welsh had 1 incident reported that I have seen and that was a minor one. With the 24/7 scrutiny the media inflict on these guys, obviously he can't have done anything too bad. But we will never know - Welsh is not about to come out and tell his side of the story so we have only got John Reid's word for it. Well, I have lost faith in the lot of them. Torney was bad enough - this is a disgrace.

 

[Drummond]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Funny I don't recall ever saying Hudson was a great player? He was always a serviceable ruckman who was a stop gap solution to our ruck woes.

I don't believe Welsh is heartless for leaving, I just believe Welsh is plain heartless.

You go on about mb2326 underrating Shirley, well you massively underrate Hudson. I’m not sure if this is purely because he’s left but it’s time you realised that while he wasn’t an elite ruckmen he was/is in the top half of AFL ruckmen.

Care to explain how Welsh is heartless?

You underate Shirley, his position as a tagger is not immediately required for a younger player, Shirley is also playing really well and it seems has a great attitude.
Jericho is young, the others are not.
Doughty is contracted until the end of 2008

Welsh is an inconsistent forward who only ever kicks bags against crap teams and rarely used the talent he had available to him, compound this with his injury plagued body and poor off field behavior and you have yourself a candidate for delisting.

Sorry, Hudson is an ordinary Ruckman, if he was a champion ruckman we would have offered him 3 years or we would have gotten more for the trade.

Torney is a champion, he was just too old. The position Torney played is the prefered spot for a couple of youngsters in our side, I imagine the reasoning is that the younger players need to be developed in that position, it was a list management decision.

So thats why those players remain and and the others go, you are underating the ones that have stayed and overating the ones that have left.

Shirley played 2-3 good games late in the season, prior to that he was dropped. If everything goes well and the youngsters develop there’s no reason why he should be in our line-up come 2009.

Jericho is a dud, don’t try and give excuses for him remaining on our list. His age isn’t a good enough reason.

Doughty is a rubbish player who should’ve been dumped.

Welsh is a solid forward who led our goalkicking on four occasions. Bag him all you like but he was the best forward on our list and the only one capable of being a match winner.

I wouldn’t go as far as saying Torney was a champion. Very solid player, champion no. I don’t agree with the decision and felt others should’ve been moved on before Torney.

I agree with the OP, Biglands and Burton are also lucky to survive.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Hudson is no Cox, yet some people are making him out to be. I realise that the younger guys in Maric and Griffin aren't there yet, but they will potentially be far better than Ben Hudson is/ever will be at the Bulldogs.

Welsh was inconsistent, while yeah he did lead our goalkicking, so what next year Welsh's replacement will kick a similar amount of goals if he is given a similar level of service to what Welsh was given.

Your previous statements were incorrect & to me smacks of someone trying to sink the boot into players that have walked out on the club by now understating their ability.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy the players have walked on on the club & only want players who have AFC at heart, but that is another issue entirely.

 

[cocka]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Everyone knows he was going to be dumped at the end of 2008, so give me one reason why he shouldn't take a guaranteed 2 year deal from the Dogs?

Reasons he shouldn't:
1. He has to play with the Dogs.
2. Show some backbone, back yourself in (if you think you are good enough), sign a one year deal, kick 70 goals in 2008 and make them sign you up for some more.
3. Did I mention he has to play with the Dogs.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Shirley played 2-3 good games late in the season, prior to that he was dropped. If everything goes well and the youngsters develop there’s no reason why he should be in our line-up come 2009.

Need to pull you up here Drummond, Shirley was not in the team in relation to match ups, the player that replaced him - Campbell. What happened the following week? Campbell dropped Shirley straight back in.

What did Shirley do during the Essendon game. He travelled over with the team as the emergency, he then watched the game and at the breaks was talking with Doughty (who was playing his role) on what he had observed from the stands, where he should be positioning himself and how to play the role better. It was that character that the coaches talked about later in the year that helped towards him being awarded the coaches award.

Those 2 -3 good games, he had very limited training in those weeks and I know a few things that I will not mention here but he has my admiration for his ability to play games over those weekends, let alone the quality of games he was playing.

Yes he doesn't have the greatest talent in the world but unlike players like Adam Saliba he has forged an AFL career as a good honest footballer. Talent is not the most important part to make it as a decent athlete. You need dedication and desire to always try to make the most of your talent.

 

[Drummond]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Need to pull you up here Drummond, Shirley was not in the team in relation to match ups, the player that replaced him - Campbell. What happened the following week? Campbell dropped Shirley straight back in.

What did Shirley do during the Essendon game. He travelled over with the team as the emergency, he then watched the game and at the breaks was talking with Doughty (who was playing his role) on what he had observed from the stands, where he should be positioning himself and how to play the role better. It was that character that the coaches talked about later in the year that helped towards him being awarded the coaches award.

Those 2 -3 good games, he had very limited training in those weeks and I know a few things that I will not mention here but he has my admiration for his ability to play games over those weekends, let alone the quality of games he was playing.

Yes he doesn't have the greatest talent in the world but unlike players like Adam Saliba he has forged an AFL career as a good honest footballer. Talent is not the most important part to make it as a decent athlete. You need dedication and desire to always try to make the most of your talent.

Don’t get me started on Campbell’s omission. He was incredibly nervous as you would expect and yet had 8 possessions in 50% game time and looked pretty comfortable. And then Craig dumps him never to be seen again. That’s deplorable handling of a player, yet alone a youngster after their first game.

Anyway the longer Shirley remains in our team the longer the rebuild will last. I’m sorry but while he might be a great team man he’s as average as they come. The coaches award would have to be the biggest farce of an award going around, especially at a time like now. When 5 players have left the club and many have said fun needs to be brought back into the team, winning the coaches award says very little.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Anyway the longer Shirley remains in our team the longer the rebuild will last. I’m sorry but while he might be a great team man he’s as average as they come. The coaches award would have to be the biggest farce of an award going around, especially at a time like now. When 5 players have left the club and many have said fun needs to be brought back into the team, winning the coaches award says very little.

I knew mentioning campbell was opening a can of worms....

Um I also do seem to remember you putting a lot of faith in best on ground awards in losing sides named by a club or on a forum to help with an argument. I would think that an award that was given by the club for performance over a year is slightly higher value than the ones that you were using. The award I was quoting goes on a players resume, the other ones are never included.

 

[Drummond]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

I knew mentioning campbell was opening a can of worms....

Um I also do seem to remember you putting a lot of faith in best on ground awards in losing sides named by a club or on a forum to help with an argument. I would think that an award that was given by the club for performance over a year is slightly higher value than the ones that you were using. The award I was quoting goes on a players resume, the other ones are never included.

Good on Shirley for winning the award, but IMO it’s pretty worthless in the scheme of things. What other sport in the world gives out a coaches award? I’d think football is one of the few who bothers and I’m not sure if it’s even worth handing out. I’m sure coaches are always giving out advice, compliments ect, does an award like this really achieve anything?

 

[NikkiNoo]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Good on Shirley for winning the award, but IMO it’s pretty worthless in the scheme of things. What other sport in the world gives out a coaches award? I’d think football is one of the few who bothers and I’m not sure if it’s even worth handing out. I’m sure coaches are always giving out advice, compliments ect, does an award like this really achieve anything?

Most team sports that I have been involved with have always given out coaches awards. Netball and Football are the main ones in Australia. It is recognition of those players that may not be the most talented or the 'best' in a team but are deserving of recognition for their efforts, dedication and willingness to contribute the team. Personally, as someone who would never be in line for best awards, I have won a coaches award before and trust me it is one of my most valued trophies, to know that even though I'm not the best in a team my contribution was valued.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Good on Shirley for winning the award, but IMO it’s pretty worthless in the scheme of things. What other sport in the world gives out a coaches award? I’d think football is one of the few who bothers and I’m not sure if it’s even worth handing out. I’m sure coaches are always giving out advice, compliments ect, does an award like this really achieve anything?

Absolute rubbish!

Do me a favour, take a look at at the list of winner of coaches awards over the years and you will find that Shirley is in rather good company. Just because he is not your norwood hommie doesn't make him a dud. He is by no means a stud but he is a very fine player and plays his heart for this club. Something a lot of other could learn from Shirley!

 

[Drummond]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Cool Stiffy.

Yes he’s got a big heart and he gives his all for the club, but he’s a protected species by so many on this board. At best he’s a solid player who occasionally has a successful game tagging. However he would be one of the worst taggers in the league and his disposal isn’t damaging. He played about 70 SANFL games before finally cracking it in the big league and it’s a pity he’s not on the verge of cracking 200 SANFL games.

It’s a sad state of affairs when the club’s rebuilding and Shirley isn’t one to bite the dust. The coaches award and his game on Black must have saved him once again.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Cool Stiffy.

Yes he’s got a big heart and he gives his all for the club, but he’s a protected species by so many on this board. At best he’s a solid player who occasionally has a successful game tagging. However he would be one of the worst taggers in the league and his disposal isn’t damaging. He played about 70 SANFL games before finally cracking it in the big league and it’s a pity he’s not on the verge of cracking 200 SANFL games.

It’s a sad state of affairs when the club’s rebuilding and Shirley isn’t one to bite the dust. The coaches award and his game on Black must have saved him once again.

Remind me again how many games did Campbell play in the sanfl before 'cracking' it in the big league as you refer to it?

Shirley is not a protected species on this board, there just happen to be a couple of us that do tend to speak up for his right to have a place in an afl team. I would suggest that we are in the minority btw as I am pretty sure I can count those that you would consider sticking up for him on one hand.

 

[macca23]

Re: THe Crows and there Contracts

Cool Stiffy.

Yes he’s got a big heart and he gives his all for the club, but he’s a protected species by so many on this board. At best he’s a solid player who occasionally has a successful game tagging. However he would be one of the worst taggers in the league and his disposal isn’t damaging. He played about 70 SANFL games before finally cracking it in the big league and it’s a pity he’s not on the verge of cracking 200 SANFL games.

It’s a sad state of affairs when the club’s rebuilding and Shirley isn’t one to bite the dust. The coaches award and his game on Black must have saved him once again.

But if his name was Meesen and he played for Norwood, you'd be writing him up as a champion even if he plodded disiterestedly around the oval looking like a lumbering ox who never looked like even being a half-arsed AFL player ........

Remember the PM I wrote you on Meesen during the season Drummond?? Wasn't far off the truth, was it.

C'mon Drummond, a bit of perspective please mate.

Shirley earns our respect, we don't invent it.

Just record a game and play it back focussing it on Shirley and you just might get some insight into why many of us - his team-mates and coaches included - appreciate his contribution to the team.