Roast The Cull needs to start

[carnaroys08]

jb75 spot on in your assesment, agreed Adcock = passenger.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Not sure of the contract status but Johnstone and Charman are far too expensive to not be regularly in the best 22. I doubt there is a team out there that would take either of these 2. If it wasn't for injury Richmond might take Charman but we have enough of Richmond's culture atm. It would be much better for one of these guys to be delisted and then for us to have more room in the salary cap so we can keep Brennan and Rishitelli.

The three minimum players that will be delisted at the end of this year IMO will be.
1. Austin - Can't see him being part of a good AFL team (2007)
2. Sheldon - We have too many players that are similar to him now (2006)
3. Collier - Isn't getting any regular mention of being the in the best for the reserves (2007)

Hanley, Proud, Stiller and Hawksley are also players that could possibly go at the end of the year.

*Hope somehow Collier makes it

 

[Quigley]

Time to unload some of the higher paid players & go for 2 genuine pacy midfielders.

Mitch Clarke: 1 good year & now the same old injury prone bloke. Brain explosion earlier this year was a very bad sign. Offload time.
Justin Sherman: the cause of too many turnovers, suicide handball specialist. We need pace with brains.
Jed Adcock: sadly too many injuries have ravaged young Jed & now plays like an old man.
Selwood: No explanation needed.



This would free up some $ space to keep Risca, Brennan & add a couple of pacy rovers.

So you want to get rid of Adcock and Sherman and spend the money on keeping Rishitelli. The reasoning being for trading Sherman that he creates too many turnovers. ???

Double standards much. The next time Rischa does something dangerous with a possession it will be the first. At least Sherman gets out and runs, creates and can kick goals something which we desparately need. I missed the game on Sunday but I do seem to recall something about Rischa kicking it out of the full in the last. Aren't we also supposed to be too slow in the midfield but you are happy to keep the plodder and get rid of one of the few guys in our midfield who has actual pace. Rischitelli had a great start to the year but when the pressure has gone on he has dropped off. He is still getting possessions but he does nothing with them. If he was the guy we lost to the GC it would not worry me at all really. We need to get smart players who can use the ball into our midfield preferrably with a bit of pace. Having a guy who constantly follows behind his man in the ruck contest, is slow and is a poor user of the ball does not help us I think.

Adcock needs to get his body right but for mine he is still our second best clearance player and I would like to see him played there.

Clark ??? Any credibility you might have been trying to generate was lost there. So you want to get rid of a young guy who in his first injury free season and playing in a position he was not set for ended up being exceptionally unlucky not to get AA selection. He has not been what we hoped this year but FFS get a clue ANY other team in the competition would jump at the chance to get Clark onboard.

 

[POBT]

Geez, with some of the prospective culls, we may not have a list next year.

I can understand the issues with TJ, Charmo, Selwood, Stiller - probably Charmo is the only one there who you could mount a reasonable argument that we don't really know where he is at due to injury. But you can't keep a guy on the list forever, waiting for his body to come good - must play this year and play reasonably well.

With TJ, how a guy can be so impressive for a couple of weeks and then not in the following games is beyond belief. He'll probably get one last shot this year at keeping his career alive but how confident can we be that he'll ever string more than a few decent games together?

Selwood and Stiller have got to be favourites for the cut. Although, Stiller at least has some Brownie points from 2009. Hanley is on very shaky ground too, particularly if he has problems with the nightlife.

Austin looks to be struggling with senior footy whilst Sammy Sheldon has to take a step forward too. I'd have either or both in the firing line unless they show something more.

On Proud, I seem to find myself trying to be the voice of reason both when there is a push to get him a run and then defending him when the knockers come out. If there is one bloke on our list who is going to take a long time to come good, it is Albie. I have no idea what is going on with him right now but, unlike Hooper, here is a guy who has at least shown us that he is capable of committing to a pre-season and working as hard as possible to improve himself. Last year was the biggest waste for him - he looked a million bucks over summer, only to ruin it with a single act of stupidity. This year, he's had half a pre-season and now seems to have more personal issues. Whilst I don't profess to have supreme confidence in his ability to stand up at AFL level, he's one where there's some excuses for his stunted development. I'd keep him, unless the off-field stuff is too big a distraction.

Collier and McCullouch, I'd keep. Unless Bart's body is totally shot, I'd be really reluctant to see the club discard him or even demote him to the rookie list. Big guys need time. Tommy C is on less secure ground but before he was injured last year, he'd actually secured himself a spot in the 22. He copped an injury, Hawksley replaces him and the Hawk plays out the season. I'd be inclined to give Tom some time.

On the new recruits, I am undecided on Raines who does some good things and some sloppy things. Unlike most of our side, he actually takes on the coach's challenge to play more attacking footy. He is flawed, true, but he's at least willing to take the game on. Do the mistakes outweigh the good work he does? Not sure.

With Buchanan, it is quite hard to marry up the guy who looked to be a clearance winning star in the NAB Cup with the bloke who can't find the ball or contest in the last couple of weeks. However, the piece of play that he was involved in with Banfield that resulted in Banfield kicking a goal was great...his physical contest made the play. But he didn't contribute too much more. He needs to influence more contests, more often. Until he does that, he's wasting a spot in the 22 and on the list. Must do better.

On Staker, I am more on the plus side than the negative in terms of what he has delivered thus far. Having him on the list has given us some coverage that we desperately needed, as it turned out. What I can't come at is the 4 year contract (if reports are true). That seems like an amazing amount of security for a guy who has been quite flakey during his career.

I always hoped that Clarke would be the value trade of last year. The ongoing injuries are a real worry though. He's a guy whose body has failed him throughout his career. And yet, when he did get a decent run with the Saints, he really looked quite good. Even if he gets a run this year, we have to resign ourselves to the fact that 2011 will be the year to cast judgment.

If I had to delist right now, I would do so in the following order:

Selwood
Austin
Johnstone
Stiller
Charman
Sheldon

With the jury out on Hanley who could be first cab off the rank if he has issues with his preparation.

 

[Sin City]

Surely West Coast would love to take Troy Selwood

 

[dlanod]

Buchanan and Raines will probably be sticking around for at least another year. I doubt they'd have switched clubs for a one year deal.

 

[Tassie4ever]

Unless he gets back on the track, and makes an impression, Charman will be the first to go [contract permitting].

Austin probably hasn't got what it takes. How many times does TJ have to suffer the humiliation of being dropped to the 2's before the penny drops. Sheldon is the smallest 183cm I've ever seen- not big enough for a backman.

Collier? If given an opportunity will need to grab it with both hands. Hanley might get another chance but it might be his last.

Proud? How long can an apprenticeship last?

Raines won't be shafted but after watching a couple of incidents on Sunday when self-preservation seemed to take priority who knows?

 

[whatboutbob]

Catherine Deveney reports that satire on the interweb can be missed by some.

Touche.

With Buchanan, it is quite hard to marry up the guy who looked to be a clearance winning star in the NAB Cup with the bloke who can't find the ball or contest in the last couple of weeks.

I could't agree more with your entire post. With Buchanan, off the top of my head, were the games he shone sans Black? Just wondering if it is the "Leave it to Black" syndrome?

 

[Football Pope]

sorry, u must be watching another raines then.....seriously, his turnover rate is high, he has poor skills

misses targets on handballs
misses targets by foot

he is a major liability....if he is so good why the heck didn't richmond keep him???? enough said

he would never in a million years get a gig with collingwood/geelong

a poor mans dalziell without the hard running

Easy target...The stats don't agree with you....current statistics...He was bought in to give us run of half back .due to injuries he's being asked to do more..The ball is continually being pumped back into a back line from clangers in the forward line..ie forwards not holding marks and a lack of centre clearances....It's a makeshift backline that's continually under seige... ..The problem's down the field..

 

[western royboy]

Easy target...The stats don't agree with you....current statistics...He was bought in to give us run of half back .due to injuries he's being asked to do more..The ball is continually being pumped back into a back line from clangers in the forward line..ie forwards not holding marks and a lack of centre clearances....It's a makeshift backline that's continually under seige... ..The problem's down the field..

Preach it Pope, give me Raines over Hawksley any day of the week. The problem is downfield, the poor bugger has no one to kick it to.

 

[carnaroys08]

I saw Raines take a nice contested mark on the wing on the weekend and what did he do???? With a six goal wind at his back he kicked 30 meters backwards(into the wind) to Staker & put him under the pump. Three more Lions posessions later (all under pressure) and the ball ends up oob where Raines originally marked the thing. What the?
I feel this type of play displays the Lions total lack of self confidence & i blame Fevola. For those who didn't read the article...... Fevola thought it odd that his new team mates showered with their jocks on & he is leading the way by stripping off. He claims some players are following his lead. However, the reason this has had such a negative effect on the group is that there are many Lions players who are scared they are going to be found out. Yes found out that they have NO BALLS.

 

[Gabbatoir]

I saw Raines take a nice contested mark on the wing on the weekend and what did he do???? With a six goal wind at his back he kicked 30 meters backwards(into the wind) to Staker & put him under the pump. Three more Lions posessions later (all under pressure) and the ball ends up oob where Raines originally marked the thing. What the?
I feel this type of play displays the Lions total lack of self confidence & i blame Fevola. For those who didn't read the article...... Fevola thought it odd that his new team mates showered with their jocks on & he is leading the way by stripping off. He claims some players are following his lead. However, the reason this has had such a negative effect on the group is that there are many Lions players who are scared they are going to be found out. Yes found out that they have NO BALLS.

Funny post, but with regards to the first half of your post, I can't believe more people haven't brought up the fact that our off the ball work has been appalling. With the poor skill areas we've been making lately, surely some of the blame has to lie with the players not in possession to lead smarter and look to make space for each other a lot more.

I'm a big believer in work ethic, and that hard work can overcome any situation, so I could be half blinded by this fact, but I'd love to see a much bigger emphasis on off the ball work, and hopefully without sounding totally naive, the skills will find their way into our game.

 

[Dylan12]

Buchanan and Raines will probably be sticking around for at least another year. I doubt they'd have switched clubs for a one year deal.

I am sure both would have taken a one year deal over having their career's ended by being delisted and try to prove they are worthy of another. However, Staker got a 4 year deal, so anything is possible with the goings-on of the club since the completion of season 2009.

 

[Wooljay]

I know I'm not a Lions supporter, but Tom Collier was a good mate of mine at high school in Hobart, and it's comfortable to say he is one of the most talented athletes I've ever met. Probably the most talented. Not only that but he is also one of the most level headed and mature guys you'll ever meet on and off the field and he'll be a long term prospect wherever he plays. I'd be thrilled to see you guys drop him in hopes we'd be able to snag him

 

[Brisroy Fitzbane]

i think Brennan, Drummond, Merrett and McGrath were extremely underated in original post.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Quite seriously and I know some people might say I am going a little early, but it is time to start thinking about who we need to coach us post-Voss. Before I started worrying about which players to get rid of, I would immediately sack Craig Lambert or whoever else has been responsible for the coaching of our midfield group.

As for Voss, he needs to stop coaching like a "rabbit in the headlights" and start working on some form of gameplan that can add another dimension to the Lions onfield performances. Given the absolute failure of players to "rally" over the last five weeks, the question does need to be asked, has he lost the players?

I know we have had major issues with injuries, but at least if we were going to lose because of that, we could have gone down fighting with the fit bodies we had, rather than running the white flag up the mast.

The clock is ticking on Voss.

Go Lions.

PS. Great to have carnaroys08 back on the board.

 

[thomas_m18]

From an outsider's prospective, just curious...

What could you get for Charman IF you decided to trade him off (if anything), and who would take him at their club?

 

[3KZ is Football]

From an outsider's prospective, just curious...

What could you get for Charman IF you decided to trade him off (if anything), and who would take him at their club?

Gardiner, Del Santo and a first round pick.

Ok ... you drive a hard bargain ... you would have to put Del Santo and Montagne on the table and we'd let you keep Gardiner and the first round pick, for a trade down to a second round pick, if you took our players who wear numbers 3 and 4.

Or we could keep Charman, which I suspect we will.

 

[halfback dasher]

So you want to get rid of Adcock and Sherman and spend the money on keeping Rishitelli. The reasoning being for trading Sherman that he creates too many turnovers. ???

Double standards much. The next time Rischa does something dangerous with a possession it will be the first. At least Sherman gets out and runs, creates and can kick goals something which we desparately need. I missed the game on Sunday but I do seem to recall something about Rischa kicking it out of the full in the last. Aren't we also supposed to be too slow in the midfield but you are happy to keep the plodder and get rid of one of the few guys in our midfield who has actual pace. Rischitelli had a great start to the year but when the pressure has gone on he has dropped off. He is still getting possessions but he does nothing with them. If he was the guy we lost to the GC it would not worry me at all really. We need to get smart players who can use the ball into our midfield preferrably with a bit of pace. Having a guy who constantly follows behind his man in the ruck contest, is slow and is a poor user of the ball does not help us I think.

Adcock needs to get his body right but for mine he is still our second best clearance player and I would like to see him played there.

Clark ??? Any credibility you might have been trying to generate was lost there. So you want to get rid of a young guy who in his first injury free season and playing in a position he was not set for ended up being exceptionally unlucky not to get AA selection. He has not been what we hoped this year but FFS get a clue ANY other team in the competition would jump at the chance to get Clark onboard.

Yes please Quig,s.....

 

[Scubaveg]

Finally someone speaks sense. Simple approach if they arenot potential premiership players move them on. That means:
Raines,
Sellwood,
Stiller,
Jonston

all must go.

Give Proud and Collier 5 or 6 games straight and make an assessment. I like them both but we have to few one touch players as it is, if they can't settle and find some composure after a good stretch they should go to.

 

[LionsUnderground]

Quite seriously and I know some people might say I am going a little early, but it is time to start thinking about who we need to coach us post-Voss. Before I started worrying about which players to get rid of, I would immediately sack Craig Lambert or whoever else has been responsible for the coaching of our midfield group.

As for Voss, he needs to stop coaching like a "rabbit in the headlights" and start working on some form of gameplan that can add another dimension to the Lions onfield performances. Given the absolute failure of players to "rally" over the last five weeks, the question does need to be asked, has he lost the players?

I know we have had major issues with injuries, but at least if we were going to lose because of that, we could have gone down fighting with the fit bodies we had, rather than running the white flag up the mast.

The clock is ticking on Voss.

Go Lions.

PS. Great to have carnaroys08 back on the board.

I ask that before people make there posts how about you go on to the lions website and just read who does what. It states that Craig Lambert is not even a coach and that he is a welfare manager who is obviously in charge of the new kids who come to the club. The person in charge seems to be Fletchy.
Welfare Development Manager – Craig Lambert

Has Voss lost the players...? I think people need to realise that the whole time these players were under matthews they never learnt in great details zone plays or keeping possession of the ball. What this means though is that the players need a high skill level. Under the old gameplan it was just to easy to shank a kick and it turned into a ball up etc but now these days you turn it over...goal. I believe our team is in transition phase which means a complete overhaul of our gameplan which takes more than a pre season to complete. The problem is we are stuck in 2 worlds at the moment, we have; black, power, brown nearing the end so we have this one last shot with these superstars but we need to learn how to play a certain game plan, increase our skill level, how to play a zone effectively and most of all what the correct decision is when we have the ball, which for some of these players is the first time they have had to learn this which takes time.

With johnstone also I think this guy really is the fall bloke when we play bad. He strung 7 games together of playing good footy in the half back line he then plays a couple of average games but so did the whole team and you send him back to the 2's instead of austin, hawksley, buchannon or until last weekend ever mcgrath? There was an example of against the demons where he was looking up field to pass it to and just no-one was doing anything and mitch clark was next to him and mitch just watched as a demons bloke tackled him into the ground without even thinking about putting on a shephard. I hear people on here defend raines and say because he is trying to break the line etc then you have to forgive him for trying yet tigger does the same think and people say lets cut the bloke from our list.

 

[GoTheLions]

I ask that before people make there posts how about you go on to the lions website and just read who does what. It states that Craig Lambert is not even a coach and that he is a welfare manager who is obviously in charge of the new kids who come to the club. The person in charge seems to be Fletchy.
Welfare Development Manager – Craig Lambert

Has Voss lost the players...? I think people need to realise that the whole time these players were under matthews they never learnt in great details zone plays or keeping possession of the ball. What this means though is that the players need a high skill level. Under the old gameplan it was just to easy to shank a kick and it turned into a ball up etc but now these days you turn it over...goal. I believe our team is in transition phase which means a complete overhaul of our gameplan which takes more than a pre season to complete. The problem is we are stuck in 2 worlds at the moment, we have; black, power, brown nearing the end so we have this one last shot with these superstars but we need to learn how to play a certain game plan, increase our skill level, how to play a zone effectively and most of all what the correct decision is when we have the ball, which for some of these players is the first time they have had to learn this which takes time.

With johnstone also I think this guy really is the fall bloke when we play bad. He strung 7 games together of playing good footy in the half back line he then plays a couple of average games but so did the whole team and you send him back to the 2's instead of austin, hawksley, buchannon or until last weekend ever mcgrath? There was an example of against the demons where he was looking up field to pass it to and just no-one was doing anything and mitch clark was next to him and mitch just watched as a demons bloke tackled him into the ground without even thinking about putting on a shephard. I hear people on here defend raines and say because he is trying to break the line etc then you have to forgive him for trying yet tigger does the same think and people say lets cut the bloke from our list.

Totally agree and that alone would kinda make you lose a bit of heart, knowing that your team mate coulda helped out, but didn't and just stood by and watched you get smashed. At least he was taking the game on. One of the only defenders doing it in that game.

I think there have been many moments like this though in the past 5 weeks, cos we are not playing as a team, maybe it is to do with learning the new game plan, maybe it is a work in progress, all I know is it is very painful to watch and very disjointed, different parts of the ground seem to be in different time zones, disconnected or something, hope we can get that connection back soon.

 

[blynd_freddie]

Quite seriously and I know some people might say I am going a little early, but it is time to start thinking about who we need to coach us post-Voss. Before I started worrying about which players to get rid of, I would immediately sack Craig Lambert or whoever else has been responsible for the coaching of our midfield group.

As for Voss, he needs to stop coaching like a "rabbit in the headlights" and start working on some form of gameplan that can add another dimension to the Lions onfield performances. Given the absolute failure of players to "rally" over the last five weeks, the question does need to be asked, has he lost the players?

I know we have had major issues with injuries, but at least if we were going to lose because of that, we could have gone down fighting with the fit bodies we had, rather than running the white flag up the mast.

The clock is ticking on Voss.

Go Lions.

PS. Great to have carnaroys08 back on the board.

• Warning * - If this thread is an infected ‘Roast’ – read with or depending on which side of the fence you sit…

VP1 is located in the core of the 3KZ virus and is an “Is Football” enzyme.

In an infected thread this enzyme produces an amalgamation of vitriol transcripts, segmented with further BS such as this, which appear to be attached to them.

The small dark circular objects are gold coated but with a melancholy antibody interlay specific for rotavirus protein VP6.

VP2 forms the core layer of the virion and binds the RNA genome.

VP3 is part of the inner core of the virion and is an enzyme called guanylyl transfer-arse. This is a crapping enzyme that catalyses the formation of the thread, crapping in the post-transcriptional modification of mRNA. The crap destabilises viral mRNA by attacking it from nucleic acid degrading enzymes called apologists.

VP4 is on the surface of the virion that protrudes as a spike, binds to molecules on the surface of cells called receptors and drives the entry of the virus into the cell. VP4 has to be modified by a protease enzyme (found in the gut) into VP5* and VP8* before the virus is infectious. It determines how virulent the virus is and it determines the Poo-type of the virus.

VP6 forms the bulk of the capsid. It is highly antigenic and can be used to identify rotavirus species.

VP7 is a glycoprotein that forms the outer surface of the virion. Apart from its structural functions, it determines the OMG-type of the strain and, along with VP4, is involved in immunity to infatuation.

* Just an opinionative observation, oh and I see no reason to justify my opinion I just don’t like culls.

Carry on…

 

[3KZ is Football]

Hilarious!

Great work blynd freddie

Sorry Lions Underground, but over the last few seasons I have consistently seen Lambert during Melbourne games talking to the midfield group at 1/4 and 3/4 time, obviously he was asking about their welfare and seeing if there had been any developments.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I ask that before people make there posts how about you go on to the lions website and just read who does what. It states that Craig Lambert is not even a coach and that he is a welfare manager who is obviously in charge of the new kids who come to the club. The person in charge seems to be Fletchy.
Welfare Development Manager – Craig Lambert

That may be what it says on the website, but there's a few guys who wear a few different hats.

Has Voss lost the players...? I think people need to realise that the whole time these players were under matthews they never learnt in great details zone plays or keeping possession of the ball. What this means though is that the players need a high skill level. Under the old gameplan it was just to easy to shank a kick and it turned into a ball up etc but now these days you turn it over...goal. I believe our team is in transition phase which means a complete overhaul of our gameplan which takes more than a pre season to complete. The problem is we are stuck in 2 worlds at the moment, we have; black, power, brown nearing the end so we have this one last shot with these superstars but we need to learn how to play a certain game plan, increase our skill level, how to play a zone effectively and most of all what the correct decision is when we have the ball, which for some of these players is the first time they have had to learn this which takes time.

I agree and have spruiking this for a few years. Although a great coach Matthews didn't keep up with developments in the game. Whether it was because he didn't read the changes of just didn't think he could/should coach that way. I'm still not sure quite what Voss' gameplan/style is.

With johnstone also I think this guy really is the fall bloke when we play bad. He strung 7 games together of playing good footy in the half back line he then plays a couple of average games but so did the whole team and you send him back to the 2's instead of austin, hawksley, buchannon or until last weekend ever mcgrath? There was an example of against the demons where he was looking up field to pass it to and just no-one was doing anything and mitch clark was next to him and mitch just watched as a demons bloke tackled him into the ground without even thinking about putting on a shephard. I hear people on here defend raines and say because he is trying to break the line etc then you have to forgive him for trying yet tigger does the same think and people say lets cut the bloke from our list.

The big problem a lot of the defenders are having are is that we're still looking by default to the big leading forward. That's fine is you've got a CHF leading up to the wings who's able to take the grab up on the wing. It's just that from R4 onwards we haven't had that. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a plan B, or if there is it's not being implemented.

I'm inclined to give the new recruits a little bit of slack. All of them are coming from teams with different styles. But Johnstone is treated harshly by some I agree.