Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

The Who's Who List

• #2,647

VICTIMS
AB - Alan Barnes 16yo
NM - Neil Muir 25yo
PS - Peter Stogneff 14yo
ML - Mark Langley 18yo
RK- Richard Kelvin 15yo

• DS - Derrance Stevenson high risk lifestyle pornographer and criminal lawyer shot to death
• DS - David Szach convicted for the murder of criminal lawyer Derrence Stevenson

DECEASED
DSD - Denis St Denis hairdresser
RBD - Richard Dutton Brown the magistrate
PF - Pru Firman
SN - Sarah Novak
BG - Brian Gant
NB - Noel Brook also known as Di Di
TP - Trevor Peters of the diaries
PM - Dr. Peter Leslie Millhouse acquitted for the murder of Neil Muir

LIVING until further notice
BVE - Bevan von Einem also known as 'Bevbang' to inner circle and 'Vonnie' in the prison system
Mr R - The businessman name suppressed
SGW - Dr Stephen George Woodards
Mr. B - Teenage prostitute and informant name suppressed
JL - Jacquie the nurse mentioned in the ebook as a good friend of and who rented a unit close to BVEs unit we assume name suppressed?
LT - Lewis Turtur also known as 'Louie'
A - The older teenage boy Peter Stogneff's parents feel may have had something to do with their son's abduction
RR - Raymond Rozankowski who was a friend of BVE and lived in the same street as A

DK - Darko Kastellan assistant to Gambardella
GG - Gino Gambardella chiropractor fled to Italy

Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

Use this thread below to lodge media, maps and photos for quick reference.

Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[John Barnes]

Perhaps you should start.

Wow I love the respect you are both showing here . Good to see and to show what kind of people you are.


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[John Barnes]

I also have a question for John Barnes or anyone else who may have something to share. Ken Thorsen (ret. head of Major Crime) suggested that multiple bodies had some form of rough surgery performed on them, I'm aware of the surgery on ML but was there any surgery performed on AB or RK?

No surgery was done on Alan . Richard I am not aware of any surgery on him as well but that one would have been in the court case if there was .




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[ElizabethG]

Now this we have to take Debi Marshall's word for since she wasn't allowed to record it but supposedly in her prison interviews with von Einem, he made a statement about having seen Kelvin wearing the dog collar earlier that day that contradicted the story he's been telling for over 35 years.

From witness accounts, it sounds like von Einem's car was full of his usual posse for his abduction gambit. Have a couple of the trans ladies in the car with him to pretend at first glance he's going to a party with hot women, get the victim in, give them drugged beer and do whatever. I can see how he might not have had success that day and noticed Kelvin at some point. Noting he was younger than what they usually went for, and thinking their usual story wouldn't work, they decide to instead change their plan and be extremely bold and simply grab him.

I think it's likely he was targeted in some form but I don't feel confident saying he was definitely targeted any longer than the afternoon he was abducted

I also don't feel confident saying that Richard was definitely targeted a long time before his abduction - he may have been. But in my opinion BVE and his accomplices didn't violently abduct Richard because they thought that he was too young to accept the offer of going to a party. He was 15, Peter was 14 and other victims who are known to have been invited to parties where around 16. I think it's more likely that they spotted him at the bus stop, were mesmerised by his good looks and decided "that it was going to be him". Or they even encountered him in Boulton Street, coming out of Marian Street, and tried to lure him into the car, but he declined. After that they may have decided to encounter him a second time and force him into the car. (Hence my question regarding Peppertree Lane.)

 

[SquiffyRae]

Gday I have put up here what I think happened.

Alan worked for a friend on the trucks delivering coke . BVE payed the account and Alan picked up the cheques . In same way BVE was connected or new the boys he kill besides Richard .
Alan coke truck

John your theory on this interests me as I've always thought Darko Kastelan's actions on the day your brother was abducted warrants a fair bit of scrutiny. Darko getting Alan onto Grand Junction Rd with the intention of hitchhiking before leaving him alone not long before BVE just happens to drive by stinks of set up. But if it was a set up where's the missing link?

We can get a possible BVE-Alan connection from his job with the Coke truck. BVE sees Alan and wants him as a victim for his games but obviously can't do anything at work.
Alan and Darko's connection is obvious
Darko we know is also connected to Gino Gambardella

What's missing, if it was indeed a set up, is how we go from BVE seeing Alan at work to having Darko set Alan up. But as you touched on John there's multiple social circles at play here and as we've seen through 145 pages and 10 years of messages, the lines between those circles are often very blurred

 

[John Barnes]

John your theory on this interests me as I've always thought Darko Kastelan's actions on the day your brother was abducted warrants a fair bit of scrutiny. Darko getting Alan onto Grand Junction Rd with the intention of hitchhiking before leaving him alone not long before BVE just happens to drive by stinks of set up. But if it was a set up where's the missing link?

We can get a possible BVE-Alan connection from his job with the Coke truck. BVE sees Alan and wants him as a victim for his games but obviously can't do anything at work.
Alan and Darko's connection is obvious
Darko we know is also connected to Gino Gambardella

What's missing, if it was indeed a set up, is how we go from BVE seeing Alan at work to having Darko set Alan up. But as you touched on John there's multiple social circles at play here and as we've seen through 145 pages and 10 years of messages, the lines between those circles are often very blurred

I do believe there is something there when it comes to darko . Where there is smoke there is fire and there is a lot of smoke with darko and his actions that weekend .

If we were to believe everything darko said why did he turn back after such a short period of time hitchhiking??? It just doesn’t sound right to me !!!!

There is a lot of questions around that and Darkos story dose not hold up nor dose it sound like something Alan would say .

“ you go back cos no one is going to pick up both of us “

I have sat up night after night thinking about that and it doesn’t fit with something Alan would say .

Alan and preacher a number of times hitched a lifted and never had a problem getting one so it doesn’t make sense to me why Alan would tell darko to go back!!!

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[Zebo]

John your theory on this interests me as I've always thought Darko Kastelan's actions on the day your brother was abducted warrants a fair bit of scrutiny. Darko getting Alan onto Grand Junction Rd with the intention of hitchhiking before leaving him alone not long before BVE just happens to drive by stinks of set up. But if it was a set up where's the missing link?

We can get a possible BVE-Alan connection from his job with the Coke truck. BVE sees Alan and wants him as a victim for his games but obviously can't do anything at work.
Alan and Darko's connection is obvious
Darko we know is also connected to Gino Gambardella

What's missing, if it was indeed a set up, is how we go from BVE seeing Alan at work to having Darko set Alan up. But as you touched on John there's multiple social circles at play here and as we've seen through 145 pages and 10 years of messages, the lines between those circles are often very blurred

Who says Alan was ever on Grand Junction Road???? Darko and one other bloke, who just happened to be connected to Darko and just happened to be driving by at exactly the moment. Dozens (hundreds?) must have driven past but no one saw Alan walking?? Why did the police rely so heavily on the word of Darko's mate, who saw something no one else saw?

My understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that Alan hadn't worked on the Coke truck for some time prior to Jun 1979. Many months, or longer? BVE's hardly going to target someone just because he saw them six months ago. If Alan was targeted by BVE, it suggests they were associating recently, which wouldn't have been via the Coke truck.

Alan wasn't the only Salisbury kid tied up in all of this. There's a few, going back before 1979. My question is: why was Darko hanging around in Salisbury? He didn't live near there, and didn't work near there. Was he dealing/procuring/whatever up there and why?

 

[John Barnes]

Who says Alan was ever on Grand Junction Road???? Darko and one other bloke, who just happened to be connected to Darko and just happened to be driving by at exactly the moment. Dozens (hundreds?) must have driven past but no one saw Alan walking?? Why did the police rely so heavily on the word of Darko's mate, who saw something no one else saw?

My understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that Alan hadn't worked on the Coke truck for some time prior to Jun 1979. Many months, or longer? BVE's hardly going to target someone just because he saw them six months ago. If Alan was targeted by BVE, it suggests they were associating recently, which wouldn't have been via the Coke truck.

Alan wasn't the only Salisbury kid tied up in all of this. There's a few, going back before 1979. My question is: why was Darko hanging around in Salisbury? He didn't live near there, and didn't work near there. Was he dealing/procuring/whatever up there and why?

I don’t know how darko and Alan met and they only knew each other for a short time . Alan stop working on the coke truck just before he meet darko and I don’t think Alan was targeted by Bve but once bve had him I do believe Alan would have said that he knew who he was .

Alan would go to the Peter Jackson hotel a lot as he looked a lot older than he was and had picked up a lot of girls from there .

Alan was good with the girls and that is why darko took him to Adelaide the night the car was defected . They had 2 girls in the car that night going by darko . The reason for me stating this is that b said they picked up Alan in north Adelaide not on grand junction rd .

Could Alan have left darko after the car was defected???
Could Alan been picked up the night before he was seen on grand junction road???
Could darko have even set Alan up from his place or somewhere else???

One thing I want to make clear is that Alan would not have gone to a gay bar . He would have walked out the minute he knew he was in one . So could darko have taken Alan to a gay bar and Alan left ??? Then been pick up in north Adelaide hitching a lift home a week before b said he was .

Remember this Alan was well known and people recognised him easy and for that week Alan was gone out side of someone saying he was at Elizabeth which is questionable . ( he would have come home if he was that close to home ) .

The only person who seen him on grand junction road was Darkos mate like you said so the whole thing stinks to high heaven to me .

There are 6 degrees of separation in the world and only 2 in Adelaide . So was darko involved with one of bves ped crow ??? Could well be and for Alan to tell darko to turn back after such a short time of hitching a lift is every questionable .

I would like to make this clear too . We ( my family are 3 gen Aussies ) same pod casts have us as English .

Alan was a very good looking lad and that is why he was targeted by bve and I believe he was killed because he recognised him from the coke days !

Why was darko hanging out in Salisbury I don’t know but he was not there every weekend nor was he there that much . Alan and darko were not close mates , Alan was at loose ends that weekend and darko asked him if he wanted to go to a party . That is why Alan was with darko that weekend!!!



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[Deni]

The most horrible murders in this thread (though no murders are good) are the ones detailed in Out of Sight: The untold story of Adelaide’s gay-hate murders

Horrible, horrible stuff.

Forget your conspiracy theories for a few minutes people.

Thank you for that link, ivé added it to bookmarks/favourites for when I have some spare time!

 

[Deni]

I'm sure he monitors this site too

I don't know about that, ivé been following these crimes and the Beaumonts since they happened, especially the Family murders and i'd never heard of Bigfooty until a year or so ago, maybe more. It was mentioned in an off the cuff post on Facebook so I thought i'd check it out.
You don't think of Bigfooty as anything but football so I was pleasantly surpised when I found all these other threads here..

 

[Dell43]

Who says Alan was ever on Grand Junction Road???? Darko and one other bloke, who just happened to be connected to Darko and just happened to be driving by at exactly the moment. Dozens (hundreds?) must have driven past but no one saw Alan walking?? Why did the police rely so heavily on the word of Darko's mate, who saw something no one else saw?

My understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that Alan hadn't worked on the Coke truck for some time prior to Jun 1979. Many months, or longer? BVE's hardly going to target someone just because he saw them six months ago. If Alan was targeted by BVE, it suggests they were associating recently, which wouldn't have been via the Coke truck.

Alan wasn't the only Salisbury kid tied up in all of this. There's a few, going back before 1979. My question is: why was Darko hanging around in Salisbury? He didn't live near there, and didn't work near there. Was he dealing/procuring/whatever up there and why?

I was supsrised when I first learnt the witness (Hodzic) who saw AB approching a car on Grand Junction Road (GJR) was a friend of Darko and had met AB for the first time the previouse night, whats the odds? From what I remember Darko's brother dropped them off on GJR. I have wondered why Hodzic would be driving along GJR, but he was living near Darko and also close to GJR at the time so that could explain his presence.

I'm not sure how many other people saw AB walking along GJR, Charlie are you able to provide any more infromation?

 

[John Barnes]

I was supsrised when I first learnt the witness (Hodzic) who saw AB approching a car on Grand Junction Road (GJR) was a friend of Darko and had met AB for the first time the previouse night, whats the odds? From what I remember Darko's brother dropped them off on GJR. I have wondered why Hodzic would be driving along GJR, but he was living near Darko and also close to GJR at the time so that could explain his presence.

I'm not sure how many other people saw AB walking along GJR, Charlie are you able to provide any more infromation?

Hodzics statement was expected in court and never pushed or questioned about it . I never met nor talked to him .


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[Zebo]

I was supsrised when I first learnt the witness (Hodzic) who saw AB approching a car on Grand Junction Road (GJR) was a friend of Darko and had met AB for the first time the previouse night, whats the odds? From what I remember Darko's brother dropped them off on GJR. I have wondered why Hodzic would be driving along GJR, but he was living near Darko and also close to GJR at the time so that could explain his presence.

I'm not sure how many other people saw AB walking along GJR, Charlie are you able to provide any more infromation?

He was supposedly living in Windsor Gardens in 1979.

 

[SSquirrel]

Have been following this for the last 22 years, keeping updated on developments in the media, internet, books etc. Including this forum and the contributions by many. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. My personal views are as follows

• Police have botched this from the word go with the discovery of Alan Barnes body. B reporting it the Police 2 days later and nothing done for over 2 months on follow-up. We have be careful where one Officer is called a "saint" and others are not. Collectively they all have failed.
• There is no organised group that is doing these killings. Just 2 or more sick and perverse opportunists that just pushed too hard on occasions and went over the cliff.
• BVE is certainly central to all 5 but not necessaryly playing the same role in each of them
• DR(Mr. R) is wealthy ( remember collects fancy cars over the years) so is his lover and has used legal representation to the max that the authorities have become overly cautious or too afraid. They did however raid the premises but he was too careful not to use his place.
• There are 4 to 5 key people but again they operate on opportunities and not in a coordinated manner. They
  • BVE (there is no mastermind or ringleader, just more bold and not careful as the others)
  • DR ( very cautious, let others do the dirty work)
  • Clocker ( DR's young work assistant and chief procurer for him, using the mattress upstairs with grandfather clock present. One of the toughest characters and yet with an extremely low profile)
  • B
  • Darko was certainly procuring and likely setup Alan. Both he and the other witness are known to each other Gran Junction Road is not part of pick-up circuit.
  • Drs SGW, DR Millhouse etc are not directly implicated by evidence or witness testimonies.

I am careful not to step into cover-ups, roles of influential identities, Dunstan, Brown, Bray, Salisbury, or whether someone is gay, drug, where they lived, of who is the the TG or the drag queen which are not critical to the murders. All are confluence of factors no doubt but can be persuasive to mislead.

What is common in all 5 are they are young males who ended up murdered with deliberately inflicted fatal anal injuries. Peter S can be reasonably be assumed to suffer the same fate despite the condition of the body as there are similarities to Neil M's mutilation.

What SAPOL should have done at the onset is to setup 2 teams. One for the Murders and the another for the series of drugging and rape of 100 more young males. It all went into one pot even though officers were assigned various roles. It is now mess with little resolution on both fronts. I don't think it can be undone. Failure of the Investigation Leadership Command structure comes right thru.

The only reason RK's case was solved was the early and intense use of Police resources because of his father's role in the public eye. Note 2 officers arrived at the family home shortly after receiving the call.

Will address more points in following posts to come.

 

[bth18]

Have been following this for the last 22 years, keeping updated on developments in the media, internet, books etc. Including this forum and the contributions by many. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. My personal views are as follows

• Police have botched this from the word go with the discovery of Alan Barnes body. B reporting it the Police 2 days later and nothing done for over 2 months on follow-up. We have be careful where one Officer is called a "saint" and others are not. Collectively they all have failed.
• There is no organised group that is doing these killings. Just 2 or more sick and perverse opportunists that just pushed too hard on occasions and went over the cliff.
• BVE is certainly central to all 5 but not necessaryly playing the same role in each of them
• DR(Mr. R) is wealthy ( remember collects fancy cars over the years) so is his lover and has used legal representation to the max that the authorities have become overly cautious or too afraid. They did however raid the premises but he was too careful not to use his place.
• There are 4 to 5 key people but again they operate on opportunities and not in a coordinated manner. They
  • BVE (there is no mastermind or ringleader, just more bold and not careful as the others)
  • DR ( very cautious, let others do the dirty work)
  • Clocker ( DR's young work assistant and chief procurer for him, using the mattress upstairs with grandfather clock present. One of the toughest characters and yet with an extremely low profile)
  • B
  • Darko was certainly procuring and likely setup Alan. Both he and the other witness are known to each other Gran Junction Road is not part of pick-up circuit.
  • Drs SGW, DR Millhouse etc are not directly implicated by evidence or witness testimonies.

I am careful not to step into cover-ups, roles of influential identities, Dunstan, Brown, Bray, Salisbury, or whether someone is gay, drug, where they lived, of who is the the TG or the drag queen which are not critical to the murders. All are confluence of factors no doubt but can be persuasive to mislead.

What is common in all 5 are they are young males who ended up murdered with deliberately inflicted fatal anal injuries. Peter S can be reasonably be assumed to suffer the same fate despite the condition of the body as there are similarities to Neil M's mutilation.

What SAPOL should have done at the onset is to setup 2 teams. One for the Murders and the another for the series of drugging and rape of 100 more young males. It all went into one pot even though officers were assigned various roles. It is now mess with little resolution on both fronts. I don't think it can be undone. Failure of the Investigation Leadership Command structure comes right thru.

The only reason RK's case was solved was the early and intense use of Police resources because of his father's role in the public eye. Note 2 officers arrived at the family home shortly after receiving the call.

Will address more points in following posts to come.

I entirely agree about Clocker

 

[John Barnes]

Have been following this for the last 22 years, keeping updated on developments in the media, internet, books etc. Including this forum and the contributions by many. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. My personal views are as follows

• Police have botched this from the word go with the discovery of Alan Barnes body. B reporting it the Police 2 days later and nothing done for over 2 months on follow-up. We have be careful where one Officer is called a "saint" and others are not. Collectively they all have failed.
• There is no organised group that is doing these killings. Just 2 or more sick and perverse opportunists that just pushed too hard on occasions and went over the cliff.
• BVE is certainly central to all 5 but not necessaryly playing the same role in each of them
• DR(Mr. R) is wealthy ( remember collects fancy cars over the years) so is his lover and has used legal representation to the max that the authorities have become overly cautious or too afraid. They did however raid the premises but he was too careful not to use his place.
• There are 4 to 5 key people but again they operate on opportunities and not in a coordinated manner. They
  • BVE (there is no mastermind or ringleader, just more bold and not careful as the others)
  • DR ( very cautious, let others do the dirty work)
  • Clocker ( DR's young work assistant and chief procurer for him, using the mattress upstairs with grandfather clock present. One of the toughest characters and yet with an extremely low profile)
  • B
  • Darko was certainly procuring and likely setup Alan. Both he and the other witness are known to each other Gran Junction Road is not part of pick-up circuit.
  • Drs SGW, DR Millhouse etc are not directly implicated by evidence or witness testimonies.

I am careful not to step into cover-ups, roles of influential identities, Dunstan, Brown, Bray, Salisbury, or whether someone is gay, drug, where they lived, of who is the the TG or the drag queen which are not critical to the murders. All are confluence of factors no doubt but can be persuasive to mislead.

What is common in all 5 are they are young males who ended up murdered with deliberately inflicted fatal anal injuries. Peter S can be reasonably be assumed to suffer the same fate despite the condition of the body as there are similarities to Neil M's mutilation.

What SAPOL should have done at the onset is to setup 2 teams. One for the Murders and the another for the series of drugging and rape of 100 more young males. It all went into one pot even though officers were assigned various roles. It is now mess with little resolution on both fronts. I don't think it can be undone. Failure of the Investigation Leadership Command structure comes right thru.

The only reason RK's case was solved was the early and intense use of Police resources because of his father's role in the public eye. Note 2 officers arrived at the family home shortly after receiving the call.

Will address more points in following posts to come.

Yes and no ! If we are to bring it down to just the killers we’ll it’s bve , dr and b . There your real killers and everyone knows this . Clocker had no real evidence pointing anything at him and the same can be said about others .
Yes the cops stuffed it up from the start and everyone knows this too .
All that you have said here I said same time back .
At the time of the killings there was groups drugging boy / young man for sex (rape ) . That is part of what makes this case so hard to know who did what and if it was the same group killing the boys .
We do know that the 3 I spoke about where involved in Alan’s killing as b did say same things to his sister that the cops held back .
Brown did not kill anyone but he was involved in the rapes and drugging of boys as well as sgw Dennis stdennis ( note they think he cut Richards hair) all 4 I just mentioned were well know to bve , dr . There are a lot of off branches to the so called family and it dose reach up . Clocker could well be in on it at same leave but how far we can only speculate.
This is the real problem as we can only speculate who did what and to whom .
Personal I have no doubt bve was the main killer and believed he killed all the boys .


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[SSquirrel]

I will as an aside, move away from the main characters and talk about Debi Marshall. The author of Banquet, The untold story of Adelaide's Family Murders.

I had not read anything that she wrote about before so it was with fresh eyes that I read the book. From the start it became apparent that the book was more about her. I was also surprised that she had a long background as a journalist and as an author and even more surprised that she is won a Walkley and she was a tutor in Journalism at one of Sydney's University. The quality of writing was really poor both in both literal and content sense. Sensationalism became pronounced.

I am fully aware that these are very harsh comments. The only think I suspect for her reach is the above line profile in social media that she has built over time.

True Crime is well known and wildly popular genre in print media and people are naturally curious. When it comes to unsolved and horrific crime there is a cry for justice. So anyone writing a book on true crime have a low barrier of entry.

Someone else in this forum did allude to the point that her content is based on those who agreed to speak to her. I do agree with that comment. An example is the content about BVE's friend who made the arrangement for the visits. So we got to know Paul's background where he lived and did, his family etc which is wholly irrelevant to the murders.

Plus the book was rife with speculation. Dunstan, Brown etc among other peripheral characters was mentioned many times for obvious reason.

 

[John Barnes]

I will as an aside, move away from the main characters and talk about Debi Marshall. The author of Banquet, The untold story of Adelaide's Family Murders.

I had not read anything that she wrote about before so it was with fresh eyes that I read the book. From the start it became apparent that the book was more about her. I was also surprised that she had a long background as a journalist and as an author and even more surprised that she is won a Walkley and she was a tutor in Journalism at one of Sydney's University. The quality of writing was really poor both in both literal and content sense. Sensationalism became pronounced.

I am fully aware that these are very harsh comments. The only think I suspect for her reach is the above line profile in social media that she has built over time.

True Crime is well known and wildly popular genre in print media and people are naturally curious. When it comes to unsolved and horrific crime there is a cry for justice. So anyone writing a book on true crime have a low barrier of entry.

Someone else in this forum did allude to the point that her content is based on those who agreed to speak to her. I do agree with that comment. An example is the content about BVE's friend who made the arrangement for the visits. So we got to know Paul's background where he lived and did, his family etc which is wholly irrelevant to the murders.

Plus the book was rife with speculation. Dunstan, Brown etc among other peripheral characters was mentioned many times for obvious reason.

I did say Debbie Marshall is full of her self and her book is self serving.


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[Zebo]

T

I will as an aside, move away from the main characters and talk about Debi Marshall. The author of Banquet, The untold story of Adelaide's Family Murders.

I had not read anything that she wrote about before so it was with fresh eyes that I read the book. From the start it became apparent that the book was more about her. I was also surprised that she had a long background as a journalist and as an author and even more surprised that she is won a Walkley and she was a tutor in Journalism at one of Sydney's University. The quality of writing was really poor both in both literal and content sense. Sensationalism became pronounced.

I am fully aware that these are very harsh comments. The only think I suspect for her reach is the above line profile in social media that she has built over time.

True Crime is well known and wildly popular genre in print media and people are naturally curious. When it comes to unsolved and horrific crime there is a cry for justice. So anyone writing a book on true crime have a low barrier of entry.

Someone else in this forum did allude to the point that her content is based on those who agreed to speak to her. I do agree with that comment. An example is the content about BVE's friend who made the arrangement for the visits. So we got to know Paul's background where he lived and did, his family etc which is wholly irrelevant to the murders.

Plus the book was rife with speculation. Dunstan, Brown etc among other peripheral characters was mentioned many times for obvious reason.

The book is also rife with errors regarding known facts, which is disappointing, as one is left wondering what of the 'new' information is also incorrect. I collated and sent her a list when we found it was being withdrawn, ensuring it was only errors that could be corrected with simple line edits (except the whole mess with the Kelvin story, which is probably why it was withdrawn and reissued). Very few of the errors pointed out were corrected, and then mostly by simply removing inaccuracies, rather than substituting correct information.

 

[SSquirrel]

I did say Debbie Marshall is full of her self and her book is self serving.


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Hey Charlie, you were 100% right. Good instincts.

 

[SSquirrel]

T

The book is also rife with errors regarding known facts, which is disappointing, as one is left wondering what of the 'new' information is also incorrect. I collated and sent her a list when we found it was being withdrawn, ensuring it was only errors that could be corrected with simple line edits (except the whole mess with the Kelvin story, which is probably why it was withdrawn and reissued). Very few of the errors pointed out were corrected, and then mostly by simply removing inaccuracies, rather than substituting correct information.

Truly disappointing. Thanks for at least trying.

 

[FAPope]

Truly disappointing. Thanks for at least trying.

I have also read Deb's book. In spite of most of the valid analysis above. The book provides a valuable contribution into these events for its insight into the personalities of so many of those involved and on the edge.

 

[John Barnes]

I have also read Deb's book. In spite of most of the valid analysis above. The book provides a valuable contribution into these events for its insight into the personalities of so many of those involved and on the edge.

We all know who where the killers. As you say the people on the edge but how deep are those people??? If we are to put the people on the edge in to it that then you have about 60 more people , then you over 300 more who knows someone who knows someone who knows something. By the time bve was put behind bars it was one of the worst kept secrets in Adelaide . Could the cops have made 2 different investigations out of it ??? NO because of the lines being so blurred.


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[Dell43]

We all know who where the killers. As you say the people on the edge but how deep are those people??? If we are to put the people on the edge in to it that when you have about 60 more people , then you over 300 more who knows someone who knows someone who knows something. By the time bve was put behind bars it was one of the worst kept secrets in Adelaide . Could the cops have made 2 different investigations out of it ??? NO because of the lines being so blurred.


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Charlie while on the subject of Debi’s book I haven’t seen you post about the story she told when your brother Mike was driving up the South Eastern Freeway. She said a couple of days prior to Alan’s body being found Mike saw Alan sitting in the back seat of a car with two other people. I’m assuming you are aware of this story?

 

[John Barnes]

Charlie while on the subject of Debi’s book I haven’t seen you post about the story she told when your brother Mike was driving up the South Eastern Freeway. She said a couple of days prior to Alan’s body being found Mike saw Alan sitting in the back seat of a car with two other people. I’m assuming you are aware of this story?

Yes mick has told me the same thing . It’s not upto me to judge that one . Mick is the only one of my family I talk to and we both don’t talk about Alan much . He said he had seen Alan so I leave it at that .

There is a reason I would not talk to Debbie Marshall and it was the fact she was nothing but self serving and wanted to make everything about her . I told her the only way I would have anything to do with her book was if she would give the profit to the victims families. Her answer was “what profits” note I did exclude myself from getting any money !

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[SSquirrel]

I have also read Deb's book. In spite of most of the valid analysis above. The book provides a valuable contribution into these events for its insight into the personalities of so many of those involved and on the edge.

There is no doubt there is a lot of information but they are irrelevant to the topic. Here are some examples. I know now that Jenny Loftes has a degree in Advertising Arts in 1960 and that Paul went to Thebarton High School in 1960. One of the victim‘s parent (I prefer not to name though she has done it) had gone to the Mexican border for failed cancer treatment. I also know that Paul lived in Melbourne and Perth. So who is Jenny, Paul and the cancer patient and what light do they throw on the case.

The book is littered with these ‘information” and they are result of talking to them even thought they and what they say has nothing to do the with the murders. She repeats “6 degrees of separation” thru out the book to validate a link in her mind which misleads readers.

In essence it is tabloid journalism which most of us enjoy reading as it is juicy stuff about others. It is not a surprise that people love reading about the the Kardashians even though they have not done anything. I admit that I know more about Dunstan, Gino, Brown, Manock‘s wife, the house in Greenhill Road etc now then before. But none of it had anything to do with family murders,

The other authors and journalists made attempts to bring the cases to light, explained things to laypersons, avoided conjecture but where there is suspicion, they predicated it.

Just my take.