Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

The Who's Who List

• #2,647

VICTIMS
AB - Alan Barnes 16yo
NM - Neil Muir 25yo
PS - Peter Stogneff 14yo
ML - Mark Langley 18yo
RK- Richard Kelvin 15yo

• DS - Derrance Stevenson high risk lifestyle pornographer and criminal lawyer shot to death
• DS - David Szach convicted for the murder of criminal lawyer Derrence Stevenson

DECEASED
DSD - Denis St Denis hairdresser
RBD - Richard Dutton Brown the magistrate
PF - Pru Firman
SN - Sarah Novak
BG - Brian Gant
NB - Noel Brook also known as Di Di
TP - Trevor Peters of the diaries
PM - Dr. Peter Leslie Millhouse acquitted for the murder of Neil Muir

LIVING until further notice
BVE - Bevan von Einem also known as 'Bevbang' to inner circle and 'Vonnie' in the prison system
Mr R - The businessman name suppressed
SGW - Dr Stephen George Woodards
Mr. B - Teenage prostitute and informant name suppressed
JL - Jacquie the nurse mentioned in the ebook as a good friend of and who rented a unit close to BVEs unit we assume name suppressed?
LT - Lewis Turtur also known as 'Louie'
A - The older teenage boy Peter Stogneff's parents feel may have had something to do with their son's abduction
RR - Raymond Rozankowski who was a friend of BVE and lived in the same street as A

DK - Darko Kastellan assistant to Gambardella
GG - Gino Gambardella chiropractor fled to Italy

Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

Use this thread below to lodge media, maps and photos for quick reference.

Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

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[DropBearess]

That's something I've been wondering for years. And it wasn't just Put & Sarah either.

I believe Pru was 18 and had parental support. 18 was the required age in SA at that time

 

[Kurve]

A lot of the evidence is sitting in a tin shed at the back of hat street including the clothes Alan was found in . They have done a lot of tests but they (the cops) won’t tell what they have .

Any chance you could get a piccy if you don't have to trespass? Because I've got this image in my head I can't shake.

Looks something like this.

 

[John Barnes]

Any chance you could get a piccy if you don't have to trespass? Because I've got this image in my head I can't shake.

Looks something like this.

No it’s a more modern shed lol . There was a picture of it in the program that the time and showed inside it . It looked more like a garden shed . I am trying to think of the program it was on but can’t remember at the moment . I know it was before my heart attack and that was in 2013 . I just want to say that picture is so funny lol .
View attachment 1059957
Looks like this but silver
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[John Barnes]

The names !!!!
How we started to get names was from people around the place . By 1983 so many names were popping up all over the place most not even close . Cherie my sister was seeing a lad 2 doors down for us and his brother was in the joint . In 1984 after bve was convicted my mom and his mom went to see Cheries boyfriends brother . Back then you had to put your name in a book as a visitor and mom looked . Besides bve mom there was a name of someone visiting bve . DR so mom wrote it down and sent a friend to find out who he was . This friend was a private investigator and he tracked him down to a clock shop . We had the first name . At this time I was a very fired up young man so mom kept it from me and I had a lot of guns too . Brown was next then LT and pf . Storen and the doctor Woodard , dsd followed. Names seem to drop in owe laps as we had reporters give same too us . Not one name was given to us by the cops, I just want to make that clear. By 1988 I had a child so mom thought it would be ok for me to know the names she had . I already had brown on my list along with dsd and dr . I wanted to see what TK would say when I dropped the names so in 1988 on the same day I talked to him about DNA I started dropping the names I had . TKs face went red and even tho he could not say I was right his look gave it away . I was smack on . TK asked how I knew the names I gave him and I just smiled at him . There were 12 names on the list but same are not in the so called family just knew the ones who were . Brown was what you would call a short time member and when the killings started he removed himself very fast but the doctor got more into it and involved himself in the killings. When I say people were in and out of the family this is what I am talking about . The list of 20 or more is a little over the top as same of the people were not in on anything and were just friends with them who where . Please be careful with who you put on your list . I went to shot brown and he was not a part of the killing.
Note : Bs name was not on the list we had in 1988 . We did not know who he was until the trial .

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[Raisedeyebrow]

Yes and there was one other I believe but not talked about . I believe NM was there that day and it was day time when Alan was picked up .


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Charlie, I'm curious about who this "one other that is not talked about" is? Can you shed any light please. Why isnt this person talked about?

 

[John Barnes]

Charlie, I'm curious about who this "one other that is not talked about" is? Can you shed any light please. Why isnt this person talked about?

NM is the other I think was there that day. B had to have known who NM was as NM was seen with bve a lot before he was killed yet when asked b gave away nothing and acted like he did not know him at all . Remember even in Bs statements b said he was with bve a lot too and around the same time NM was with bve . B had to have known who NM was . He hinted of 4 people but only gave 3 names .


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[John Barnes]

NM !!!
One thing that got to me mom would say was nm was one of them . We my mom and I even had fights over it and not until the committal hearing and it came to light that nm was well known to bve that I changed . Now mom came up with that even before ML was killed. How did she know ??? I don’t know to this day but after b said what he said on the stand then same time after I found out about nm relationship with bve it’s not hard to put it together . Mom could have been told something back then about it that she did not tell her hot headed son ( me ) but she seem to have known . This is why I keep my theory of what happened and why Neil was killed .


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[John Barnes]

Me John C Barnes !!!!!
Cheeky Charlie they called me and mom called mr chan after Charlie chan . We all had nick name for each other as mom was called the budd after Buddhur ( short stumpy little buddhur person)Mandy ( skin ) and so on . What was I like as a kid well mom would call me the biggest bastard on 2 legs . I was more then cheeky but a happy kid . I was one to prove myself right and was a lot of the time as I love documentaries. Tho I had a hard time reading ( dyslexia) I would remember everything I seen and could even say what was said word for word . In that time people did not like it so much to be told things from a kid . A lot of teachers hated me!!! I did not like school much because of this and it was not till I was in my 6 year of school that they found out I was a dyslexic . This was all before Alan died and a little happy go lucky kid changed . After Alan died I turned into everything I hate so I started to hate myself . I turned into the bloke you crossed the road to stay away from . I hated everybody and everything plus I had guns so I took off . I became a drunk and got into drugs to stay away from it all . I went bush as they say and stayed there for same time . Then one day I seen what I had become and did not like it so I stopped drinking and drugs so by the time I was 18 I was better . Still a hot head but was not as dangerous as I was not drunk . I was married then divorced and have 3 kids but in 2010 after going to phys most of my life I made a real change . I looked in the mirror and did not like who I was so I worked hard on me and became a better person . I don’t live in the past any more and can talk about Alan without getting upset . So that’s the person you have here now . Even tho I have had a heart attack, triple bypass, stroke and crap removed I’m ok to talk about this . All that stuff happened because I had so much hate back then .


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[Raisedeyebrow]

I think when it comes to the deaths it’s probably safe to keep them to “The Family” - BVSE, Mr R, SGW, Mr B, DsD, MGL (Mr R’s partner)

Why can't MGL s name be identified then? How involved was he. Is there a suppression order on his name also?

 

[Gayspie2020]

I believe Pru was 18 and had parental support. 18 was the required age in SA at that time

Fair enough. For those in the know, what was Prue like as a teenager (shy, rebellious, popular, etc)? And What was her background like (working class, middle class, upper class, etc)?

 

[SquiffyRae]

Brown was what you would call a short time member and when the killings started he removed himself very fast but the doctor got more into it and involved himself in the killings. When I say people were in and out of the family this is what I am talking about

Interesting. That lines up quite nicely with what I and a few others suspected. Brown and Woodards would've likely got involved cause they lived with Mr R. I still reckon Woodards was a failed surgeon. He wanted to be one but wasn't good enough so had to settle for becoming a physio. Then when the murders started, Brown noped out but Woodards sensed an opportunity to live out his surgeon fantasies and became the butcher.

Fits with the known timeline quite well too cause in theory Woodards wasn't involved in Alan's murder and Alan also wasn't cut up like some of the others but when Woodards got into it the victims started showing up with various cutting having been performed on them.

 

[JezMez]

Fair enough. For those in the know, what was Prue like as a teenager (shy, rebellious, popular, etc)? And What was her background like (working class, middle class, upper class, etc)?

She grew up in Dernacourt not far from BVE. Looks like an area that is half way between working class and middle class, but the boys in the family went to Rostrevor (the family has a long association there and some of Pru's nephews also go there), and the girls went to St Aloyisius in the CBD. The family is pretty stock standard middle class.

I can't tell you about what she was like as a teenager, but as an adult she was very popular in the TG community. She's the one they all looked up to the most. She obviously had a great personality and leadership qualities. Despite her behaviour (specifically luring victims for BVE and being involved in some of the rapes), she remains in high esteem in the TG community.

This group of TGs - Pru, Sarah, Megan being the main three, and to a lesser extent Kerry and Samantha, and then the no-op crosser dressers (Lewis, Brian, Di Di, Gary) were the "cool group" of the TG community. Sarah started taking hormone pills at 15 in 1972. Pru had her operation at around 1982 and I believe most of them did around this time. They would have been pioneers of the TG community. People talk about them in glowing terms. They seem to disregard what these people were involved in.

One final thing, these girls were total bad bitches. Burglaries, theft, Mandrax addictions, heroin addictions.

 

[JezMez]

The names !!!!
How we started to get names was from people around the place . By 1983 so many names were popping up all over the place most not even close . Cherie my sister was seeing a lad 2 doors down for us and his brother was in the joint . In 1984 after bve was convicted my mom and his mom went to see Cheries boyfriends brother . Back then you had to put your name in a book as a visitor and mom looked . Besides bve mom there was a name of someone visiting bve . DR so mom wrote it down and sent a friend to find out who he was . This friend was a private investigator and he tracked him down to a clock shop . We had the first name . At this time I was a very fired up young man so mom kept it from me and I had a lot of guns too . Brown was next then LT and pf . Storen and the doctor Woodard , dsd followed. Names seem to drop in owe laps as we had reporters give same too us . Not one name was given to us by the cops, I just want to make that clear. By 1988 I had a child so mom thought it would be ok for me to know the names she had . I already had brown on my list along with dsd and dr . I wanted to see what TK would say when I dropped the names so in 1988 on the same day I talked to him about DNA I started dropping the names I had . TKs face went red and even tho he could not say I was right his look gave it away . I was smack on . TK asked how I knew the names I gave him and I just smiled at him . There were 12 names on the list but same are not in the so called family just knew the ones who were . Brown was what you would call a short time member and when the killings started he removed himself very fast but the doctor got more into it and involved himself in the killings. When I say people were in and out of the family this is what I am talking about . The list of 20 or more is a little over the top as same of the people were not in on anything and were just friends with them who where . Please be careful with who you put on your list . I went to shot brown and he was not a part of the killing.
Note : Bs name was not on the list we had in 1988 . We did not know who he was until the trial .

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Question.

Why didn't you have these names when you first started posting. You had Brown, a radio personality and a few other names unconnected.

Enough of this charade. You're getting the names other people have found and then retrofitting them into your stories.

I won't speak of this again, but lots of people know your game. Have some respect for people who are finding you answers.

 

[John Barnes]

Question.

Why didn't you have these names when you first started posting. You had Brown, a radio personality and a few other names unconnected.

Enough of this charade. You're getting the names other people have found and then retrofitting them into your stories.

I won't speak of this again, but lots of people know your game. Have some respect for people who are finding you answers.

If you look up unsolved family murders on big footy you would see I had posted the names in 2012 as well as a page called justices on fb . You seem to want to big note yourself thinking your the only one who has names . DR names was at the committal hearing but I didn’t know ???? Came on !!! Your the one telling everyone here that b is alive and when I ask you for proof I get nothing but crap . You said you have his email , phone number, address and where he works ok cool prove it. Alan’s clothes you don’t know yet you said you did again prove it . You can’t and you know you can’t . This is not a story but my life . The names have been around a lot longer then you have been on the net . The reporter from 60 minutes went and talked to him and she did not get his name from the cops . Where did she ??? Us !!!!


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[JezMez]

If you look up unsolved family murders on big footy you would see I had posted the names in 2012 as well as a page called justices on fb . You seem to want to big note yourself thinking your the only one who has names . DR names was at the committal hearing but I didn’t know ???? Came on !!! Your the one telling everyone here that b is alive and when I ask you for proof I get nothing but crap . You said you have his email , phone number, address and where he works ok cool prove it. Alan’s clothes you don’t know yet you said you did again prove it . You can’t and you know you can’t . This is not a story but my life . The names have been around a lot longer then you have been on the net . The reporter from 60 minutes went and talked to him and she did not get his name from the cops . Where did she ??? Us !!!!


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There's about 10-12 posters getting all the information. I've seen you post from the start. I've had PM conversations with you. You don't know anything. You keep taking it and retrofitting it to your stories. Some people know you're doing it, others, well I'm calling you on it and telling them now.

I'm not going to argue with you over this.

 

[John Barnes]

Question.

Why didn't you have these names when you first started posting. You had Brown, a radio personality and a few other names unconnected.

Enough of this charade. You're getting the names other people have found and then retrofitting them into your stories.

I won't speak of this again, but lots of people know your game. Have some respect for people who are finding you answers.

Here is a easy one for you to give me proof b is alive . At the committal he had a shirt on that was unusual and there was even a comment made . B said it’s his favourite, what colour was it ? Ask him if you have his number.


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[John Barnes]

She grew up in Dernacourt not far from BVE. Looks like an area that is half way between working class and middle class, but the boys in the family went to Rostrevor (the family has a long association there and some of Pru's nephews also go there), and the girls went to St Aloyisius in the CBD. The family is pretty stock standard middle class.

I can't tell you about what she was like as a teenager, but as an adult she was very popular in the TG community. She's the one they all looked up to the most. She obviously had a great personality and leadership qualities. Despite her behaviour (specifically luring victims for BVE and being involved in some of the rapes), she remains in high esteem in the TG community.

This group of TGs - Pru, Sarah, Megan being the main three, and to a lesser extent Kerry and Samantha, and then the no-op crosser dressers (Lewis, Brian, Di Di, Gary) were the "cool group" of the TG community. Sarah started taking hormone pills at 15 in 1972. Pru had her operation at around 1982 and I believe most of them did around this time. They would have been pioneers of the TG community. People talk about them in glowing terms. They seem to disregard what these people were involved in.

One final thing, these girls were total bad bitches. Burglaries, theft, Mandrax addictions, heroin addictions.

Now this stuff I never got into just who was in on it . The background of all the perps means nothing to me but there are people here who love to know this stuff . Megan I know nothing about but I have been told Sarah’s name before but I did not have it on my list . The TGs were used to get boys to jump into the cars from what i knew were PF and cross dresser LT . The first time I seen Sarah’s name was here . At the committal there were about 3 TGs and LT . Same did not take the stand but others did pf and LT. As it was Alan’s case it may have been before Sarah was on the seen . I did not see it take the stand . There was a time I was removed from the court for looking at bve to long so I don’t know what happened in that time .


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[John Barnes]

I didn't say I have anything that will blow the case wide open. I've been pretty clear in my opinion that it's too late to solve this case (as in bring charges).

You claimed Mr B is dead and you pissed on his grave. I know you are lying just as I know you have lied about other things. I don't feel a need to prove this to you. I don't have a problem if you don't believe me. I don't have a problem if you "think" he is dead. I do have a problem with your big noting when it's based on things you are guessing at.

I was lied too

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[Bits]

Hey Charlie, just a thought, but maybe the police were/are trying to protect both you and Mr B by giving you the wrong name and the wrong info about him.

 

[John Barnes]

Hey Charlie, just a thought, but maybe the police were/are trying to protect both you and Mr B by giving you the wrong name and the wrong info about him.

I just found out that I was lied to by the people I trusted with this information. Jaz you were right about B he is ALIVE as I just found out . As I have said before I do not read I go by what I see and hear from the people involved . I don’t mind eating shit when I am wrong so everyone I am sorry about that . It’s like when we were first told that Alan was unconscious when he died then have a shock to find out he was awake . That hurts more being lied to because you don’t trust them anymore. Jaz you have this I am gone . Ps Matt Fitzpatrick is popping over my house in the next 2 weeks and will answer any questions he can know there are same he can’t . Pm me if there is something you want to know.


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[SquiffyRae]

Hey Charlie, just a thought, but maybe the police were/are trying to protect both you and Mr B by giving you the wrong name and the wrong info about him.

Very possible imo given Charlie has previously tracked down other suspects and threatened them. Was probably better for both Charlie and Mr B that he was hunting down someone that didn't exist and later stopped looking cause they were supposedly dead

 

[JezMez]

I just found out that I was lied to by the people I trusted with this information. Jaz you were right about B he is ALIVE as I just found out . As I have said before I do not read I go by what I see and hear from the people involved . I don’t mind eating sh*t when I am wrong so everyone I am sorry about that . It’s like when we were first told that Alan was unconscious when he died then have a shock to find out he was awake . That hurts more being lied to because you don’t trust them anymore. Jaz you have this I am gone . Ps Matt Fitzpatrick is popping over my house in the next 2 weeks and will answer any questions he can know there are same he can’t . Pm me if there is something you want to know.


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Charlie, it's all good mate.

 

[QLander]

What information do you have that b is still alive?

 

[DropBearess]

I've been a bit behind the play of late, wallowing in the ocean on hols. . Just reading back.....Great stuff and thank you!

I'm thinking it might be good to be more respectful of each others' posts in some cases. John Barnes comes to mind; e.g. a poster's specific suggestion/accusation he might be gleening, slotting in, then subsequently posting info he has read here and claiming it as his own intell? He lived it.

Aren't some other people here doing the "slotting in" caper too ? Hmmmm..... Not many, but it's happened to me when l've pmd info. People in glass houses.....

I hope you don't go away John Barnes. You are the best resource we have.

 

[John Barnes]

I've been a bit behind the play of late, wallowing in the ocean on hols. . Just reading back.....Great stuff and thank you!

I'm thinking it might be good to be more respectful of each others' posts in some cases. John Barnes comes to mind; e.g. a poster's specific suggestion/accusation he might be gleening, slotting in, then subsequently posting info he has read here and claiming it as his own intell? He lived it.

Aren't some other people here doing the "slotting in" caper too ? Hmmmm..... Not many, but it's happened to me when l've pmd info. People in glass houses.....

I hope you don't go away John Barnes. You are the best resource we have.

Your post brings tears to my eyes. I think Jaz know now that I had the names years ago as we had a long talk about it . I don’t mind being wrong and are happy as I have shown to admit it . I am in a little shock over this as I really did trust the people who were giving me that info . The minute I found out that I was wrong I posted here and I have no fear of that . I just need a little time to work this out in my head as a big thing for me is trust with Alan’s case and I just lost 3 of the people I trusted most . Thank you all


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