The future of Australian Manufacturing

[Max zero]

I can assure you the Unions played a minor part of the closure of the Whyalla Shipyard it was pure economics plain & simple.

Yes it is simply economics. Australia is only internationally competitive in a few industries. Punishing those industries to subsidize uncompetitive industries will only lead to failure.

Australia car manufacturing has said for 70 years they will one day not need subsidies. I guess they have given up on that lie.

Australian's overall have a very comfortable lifestyle, with lots of safety nets and targetted support. Not saying this is a bad thing just pointing out that all this comes at a cost. We can afford it now no problem, whether we can maintain it into the future is another question.

 

[Dry Rot]

Relax!

Gillard will be re-elected, and the Green Carbon tax investment slush fund will provide jobs for all.

 

[tazzietiger]

Holden announced today 400 jobs in SA and 100 in Victoria will be cut.
Are we getting money worth when it comes to the tax pay money assistance packages being given to the automotive sector.

 

[Gough]

Holden announced today 400 jobs in SA and 100 in Victoria will be cut.
Are we getting money worth when it comes to the tax pay money assistance packages being given to the automotive sector.

Nope, but to be fair, the high Australian dollar is breaking their balls right now too.
I would imagine that the government has decided that the benefits of subsidising this industry outweighs the economic cost of the industry closing down entirely.
I'm not sure that it's even a partisan issue. It's difficult to imagine any government acting in any other way. The automotive industry in Australia going **** up on your watch is probably not what you want as a legacy.

 

[Max zero]

Nope, but to be fair, the high Australian dollar is breaking their balls right now too.
I would imagine that the government has decided that the benefits of subsidising this industry outweighs the economic cost of the industry closing down entirely.
I'm not sure that it's even a partisan issue. It's difficult to imagine any government acting in any other way. The automotive industry in Australia going **** up on your watch is probably not what you want as a legacy.

The automotive industry has been getting heavy subsidies for over 70 years. It's not like this has suddenly popped up during the mining boom.

 

[tazzietiger]

Nope, but to be fair, the high Australian dollar is breaking their balls right now too.
I would imagine that the government has decided that the benefits of subsidising this industry outweighs the economic cost of the industry closing down entirely.
I'm not sure that it's even a partisan issue. It's difficult to imagine any government acting in any other way. The automotive industry in Australia going **** up on your watch is probably not what you want as a legacy.

The Australian dollar isn't going to fall over night and make our manufacturing sector viable against cheaper currencies such as the Japanese Yen, Korean won, and Chinese Yuan. Than we have other factors that hinder us against competing in manufacturing such as our higher labor costs. The time has came and its been here for a while to have a real debate about if its tenable to keep giving over tax payers money hand over fist to the slowly but surely dying motor manufacturing industry.

 

[Gough]

The Australian dollar isn't going to fall over night and make our manufacturing sector viable against cheaper currencies such as the Japanese Yen, Korean won, and Chinese Yuan. Than we have other factors that hinder us against competing in manufacturing such as our higher labor costs. The time has came and its been here for a while to have a real debate about the if its tenable to keep giving over tax payers money hand over fist to the slowly but surely dying motor manufacturing industry.

I couldn't agree more mate but I just can't see either Party being willing to do it. The economic fallout could be very damaging.

 

[rayven]

You know that the conspiracy theorists think that libya and iraq got flattened because they were trying to bypass the american dollar.

You know that today it was announced we don't need to exchange our money into american dollars first when dealing with china?

You know the 500 job losses announced today were done by an american company...

 

[PottSie2]

You know Manufacturing has been struggling for years and imposing a CO2 tax and more regulation on an industry already struggling is probably not a good idea for the sector.

 

[tazzietiger]

Gradam Spurling is predicting Holden will close down the Elizabeth production line completely within a couple years.

The former head of Mitsubishi in Australia says it is only a matter of time before it closes completely.
Mitsubishi closed its factory at Tonsley in Adelaide's south in 2008, and former managing director Graham Spurling believes it is unlikely Holden will last beyond a few more years.
"For anybody like the Premier of South Australia to think they're going to stay here until 2022, as they say in that classic movie 'He's dreaming love'," he said.
"And I also think that Ford is on the cusp of shutting up shop as well. It's just not politically correct to do so at the moment and I think it's all the political fight and the embarrassment of having poured money in."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-09/holden-job-losses-could-cause-hundreds-of-others/4617858

Jessica Irvine makes a good point in her column. When you really think of it a once off payment of $295,000 when being laid off could of helped employee's pay off their debt or pay for new training which would help them find more sustainable job.

Holden's announcement this week of another 500 job losses, 400 in South Australia, was a shock to many. But it shouldn't have been. Holden's Adelaide workforce was 4800 strong in 1989. After these redundancies, Holden's ranks here will have shrunk to 1750.
And this is despite the $2.17 billion that Holden estimates it will receive from government over a 12-year period.
That is a whopping taxpayer-funded price to pay and still not protect jobs.
Think about it.
For the same cost, the Federal Government could have paid the entire Holden workforce $295,000 each in 2004 to simply walk away.
Employees could have paid off their mortgages entirely and begun looking for new work.
Instead, workers look set to lose their jobs anyway.
The Productivity Commission estimates that Australian taxpayers now stump up $17.7 billion a year in industry assistance, including $8.7 billion in tariff assistance, $3.6 billion in direct budget outlays and $5.4 billion in tax concessions.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/mo...elped-out-holden/story-e6frezc0-1226616171424

 

[noddy]

Just on Irvine's point is that amount also intended for the thousands of workers who will lose their jobs nation wide if the car industry folds or are they to be considered as fodder?

 

[PottSie2]

Just on Irvine's point is that amount also intended for the thousands of workers who will lose their jobs nation wide if the car industry folds or are they to be considered as fodder?

How are they any different to the tens of thousands of jobs that have been shed in other manufacturing industries ? How's Paul Howes going on his "just 1 job" committment ?

 

[Slax]

Holden announced today 400 jobs in SA and 100 in Victoria will be cut.
Are we getting money worth when it comes to the tax pay money assistance packages being given to the automotive sector.

Nope.

We would've achieved far more success in helping the local car industry if government at all levels were required to only buy Australian made cars. If this had of happened you'd find a much healthier automotive industry in this country than we have. Unfortunately we are ruled at all levels by a bunch of egotistical hypocrites who are only in politics for their own gain.

 

[noddy]

Just on Irvine's point is that amount also intended for the thousands of workers who will lose their jobs nation wide if the car industry folds or are they to be considered as fodder?

How are they any different to the tens of thousands of jobs that have been shed in other manufacturing industries ? How's Paul Howes going on his "just 1 job" committment ?

You are off track once again Pottsie, i was commenting on this point in Tassies post No61 =

Jessica Irvine makes a good point in her column. When you really think of it a once off payment of $295,000 when being laid off could of helped employee's pay off their debt or pay for new training which would help them find more sustainable job.

 

[PottSie2]

You are off track once again Pottsie, i was commenting on this point in Tassies post No61 =

Jessica Irvine makes a good point in her column. When you really think of it a once off payment of $295,000 when being laid off could of helped employee's pay off their debt or pay for new training which would help them find more sustainable job.

Where can I sign up ?

 

[noddy]

Where can I sign up ?

Ask Tazzie who can then ask Jessica.

 

[PottSie2]

You are off track once again Pottsie, i was commenting on this point in Tassies post No61 =

Jessica Irvine makes a good point in her column. When you really think of it a once off payment of $295,000 when being laid off could of helped employee's pay off their debt or pay for new training which would help them find more sustainable job.

You are right Noddy, re-read your post. Understand what you mean now (i.e. car parts suppliers etc).

 

[Max zero]

Nope.

We would've achieved far more success in helping the local car industry if government at all levels were required to only buy Australian made cars. If this had of happened you'd find a much healthier automotive industry in this country than we have. Unfortunately we are ruled at all levels by a bunch of egotistical hypocrites who are only in politics for their own gain.

So instead of subsidizing directly you suggest we subsidize indirectly?

 

[Slax]

So instead of subsidizing directly you suggest we subsidize indirectly?

Yes. Direct subsidising is only handing out cash for a company to spend as it sees fit, indirect subsidising provide the government with the return of a direct asset (or service) for the money that they spend. The indirect subsidy will have the same impact by helping to retain jobs at that organisation, there are also the flow on jobs for other companies that supply goods and services to that company and the flow back to the government through tax revenue.

It is quite clear that the subsidy going to GM is not being used completely to keep jobs in this country.

 

[The_Reaper]

It would save us money as well.
The government still has to buy cars- regardless of whether they were made in Australia or not.

 

[Max zero]

Yes. Direct subsidising is only handing out cash for a company to spend as it sees fit, indirect subsidising provide the government with the return of a direct asset (or service) for the money that they spend. The indirect subsidy will have the same impact by helping to retain jobs at that organisation, there are also the flow on jobs for other companies that supply goods and services to that company and the flow back to the government through tax revenue.

It is quite clear that the subsidy going to GM is not being used completely to keep jobs in this country.

Why not just buy the best value cars and use the money saved to help the staff find jobs in industries that do not need to be subsidized forever?

 

[Cap]

Why not just buy the best value cars and use the money saved to help the staff find jobs in industries that do not need to be subsidized forever?

name me an industry that isn't subsidised.

 

[Max zero]

name me an industry that isn't subsidised.

You can make a case that all Australian industries a subsidized to some extent but not all need it to survive. While the mining industry does get a diesal 'subsidy' (its more a reflection of no using public roads) and some infrastructure subsidies the industry would survive without them.

Take away the automotive subsidies and plants would close in a year. They probably still will anyway. You may well be better off just giving the workers the 200-300k each of subsidy money.

 

[Cap]

You can make a case that all Australian industries a subsidized to some extent but not all need it to survive. While the mining industry does get a diesal 'subsidy' (its more a reflection of no using public roads) and some infrastructure subsidies the industry would survive without them.

Take away the automotive subsidies and plants would close in a year. They probably still will anyway. You may well be better off just giving the workers the 200-300k each of subsidy money.

given the subisdy to the car industry is so little (someone mentioned) does the impact of having to retrain a whole heap of employees into other areas really benefit the economy?

do we even have the jobs to fill the total number of job losses as a result of car manufacturing leaving.

 

[Slax]

Why not just buy the best value cars and use the money saved to help the staff find jobs in industries that do not need to be subsidized forever?

You'll actually have less money going to providing jobs this way.