The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast *MB thread*

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

I'm talking about people on here, you're telling people to rpove a point here but why would someone do just that and ruin their rep with their supplier?

I'm telling people not to swallow stories that don't present a shred of evidence.

If there's evidence that I've overlooked, then let's hear about it.

 

[Lach72]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

The whole idea of journalism is to source information.

If I want to read stuff that's totally unsubstantiated, I'll read New Weekly.

Guys like Craig Hutchison are meant to be these big newsbreakers - how about finding some evidence?

How about legal action?

 

[wal]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Gunnar if you want evidence why don't you ring up Nisbett and ask him where he buried it.

 

[ant22]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

This whole issue of drugs in AFL, and of West Coast supposedly being the worst offenders, is a total beat-up.

Rumour and innuendo are no substitute for real evidence, but that hasn't stopped commentators from inflating this issue at every opportunity.

The Footy Show interview with West Coast chairman Dalton Gooding was presented as some kind of massive expose - maybe I missed it, but was anything actually revealed?

Gooding basically admitted their had been some discipline problems at the club, before saying the club wouldn't tolerate any more stuff-ups and that illicit drugs were unacceptable. What was the big revelation here? What else was he going to say? You'd get the same line on drugs and discipline from every chairman in the league.

This whole saga is marked as a beat-up by the complete lack of real information. I'm yet to see a shred of evidence that there is a "drug problem" in the AFL, or at West Coast or any other club.

Notice the way Hutchison kept referring to "a perception back East" that West Coast had a drug problem. That perception was emphasised because Hutchison had no actual evidence to use as a starting point for his questions. A perception - that's what's driving this beat-up.

I love the way commentators use "anecdotal evidence" to build their case. What does that phrase mean in this context? Rumour? Hearsay? In most reporting, that would not be sufficient to drive a story - but in this issue, that's considered a smoking gun.

Craig Hutchison spuriously linked Cousins getting locked up and Kerr assaulting a taxi driver with a supposed drug problem at West Coast. How does that work? Were drugs a factor in either incident?

Then there's the Fletcher incident. If anyone knows what happened in Las Vegas, then let's hear it. It's unsound to just assume it was a drug overdose in the absence of any real information?

Like I said - show me the evidence. Don't just recite unsubstantiated rumours or point to incidents that had nothing to do with drugs.

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less what Ben Cousins or any other player does or doesn't ingest in a nightclub. I have no interested whatsoever in this half-baked soap opera that surrounds players' off-field activities. The public appetite for this stuff mystifies me.

I thought most people follow football because they like the spectacle and the contest. Players will be judged on what they do on-field - and rightly so. Why is there such interest in everything else?

That said, the way this story about the "drug problem" has been manufactured needs to be pointed out.

People should demand some facts instead of just lapping up innuendo that feeds their dislike of the Eagles.

I have no doubt there is some kind of a drug problem in the afl but I doubt it is nearly as bad as the problem in the wider community. I highly doubt the public care as much about it as much as the media think.

Truth be no I would rather have a team that wins flags that has a few bad apples than a team that finishes near the bottom but has a list of stand up citizens.

At the end of the most people care more about winning games of football

 

[macka6210]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

it sells papers makes people watch televisions programmas and rightly or wrongly promotes the game any news is good news. if it wasnt the eagles drug problem of which i dont believe they are the only ones just the ones who seem to be caught there would be some other sensationist story to keep board like this going and keep people tallking about footy. if proof was needed i doubt there would be any need for boards like this as from what i have seen its all based on personal opion. and do people actually care if its true or not in the end we all like to think we play some part in the world of football when are roles are very minor in deed

 

[Coastering]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Although drugs are a problem in Australian society alcohol is a much greater problem. From my experience sports clubs don't indulge in drugs any more than the rest of society but they do consume much more alcohol. It has always been my opinion that the first AFL club to lessen alcohol consumption among their players, if that is possible, will be a much better club for it, and have a distinct advantage over the other clubs. Therefore I think that the result of this massive beatup is that the Eagles are now the first club to attempt to seriously deal with alcohol abuse amongst its players. This will be a huge advantage leading into the new season.

 

[MarkT]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Of course it is all a beat up. Not the drugs, just the problem. Bad PR is never welcomed but it won’t stop them making millions. If it was to cost them a Judd however that’s a different ball game.

As for real evidence, it is there. Circumstantial and otherwise.

 

[Topdock65]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

I expect a degree of substantiation before stories are reported.

I'm a journalist - I do this everyday. You can't just report something you heard because it's interesting.

Gunnar, Being in the industry as a Journalist whats your view on Andrew Rule ? From what ive heard he is very highly regarded (Award Winning ) and has been doing it for a longtime. And is not a sports reporter.

 

[yeahmate]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Have to agree that the media is having a field day beating this one up for all its worth. Pretty easy to intimate and suggest without any real evidence and I agree there are some failry spurious links being drawn to infer endemic "drug problems" at WCE (e.g Ben Cousins Crown incident, Daniel Kerr taxi stuff). Even if the Fletcher story involved drugs as is being suggested, who really cares? All the supporters of other teams getting stuck into the Eagles should really take a look in their own backyard first before getting all high and mighty. A couple of WCE players have just been dumb enough to get caught and when the media smells blood (or $) the feeding frenzy begins.

Must say I'm sick of the whole story really. A couple of years ago it was sexual assualt and now we've moved on to drugs to sell a few papers in the off-season. These are issues about society not confined to football players.

Bring on the real stuff I say so we can start talking about great goals, marks, bumps and not this crap.

 

[worthy]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

The reality is that I couldn't care less if West Coast players take drugs. Especially during the off-season.

You know why I don't care? Because I'm not a moronic wowser freaking out over this media-conjured spectre of drug-addled football players leading our children astray.

NEWSFLASH: Some young men take drugs. Do they all automatically have "drug problems"?

So even if it was proven that Fletcher was high as a kite in Vegas, I wouldn't be too upset. It was the off-season. Good luck to him, but he should be more careful.

What is annoying me is the way this story has been patched together from scraps of unsubstantiated rumour.

Show me the evidence. That's all I'm asking.

Until then, stop pretending that what's been reported so far is proof of anything.

Would you be so dismissive and defensive if it wasn't WC at the centre of it? You've basically left yourself no right to complain or query any other clubs or players standards or ethics after this piece of rubbish.

 

[The Mongrel Punt]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Given that West Coast were a Leo Barry mark away from back to back flags, perhaps they could let some of the clubs back east know what they're taking?

It doesn't look to hurt too much.

 

[theGav56]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Beat-ups need to be pointed out, and it frustrates me the way people just swallow stories that feed their biases.

Do you think it is unreasonable for me to want to see some real evidence before concluding that West Coast is in the grip of a "drug problem"?

What's wrong with that?

Would Gooding coming out and saying that the club has a drug problem constitute evidence? Probably not, but I think you should ask him to provide evidence before coming out and saying that, rather than the media. Obviously he has some or he would not say it as it clearly damages the club. Possibly he won't tell you what it is, as that would damage the club further.

 

[MF]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

I've said it already - show me the evidence.

I don't think you can accuse me of being in denial when no evidence has actually been presnted.

In reality, the media and the public - particularly in Victoria - are so desperate to inflate these half-baked smears against West Coast that they'll swallow anything, even it's totally unproven.

Your own club admitted there was a problem mate. You think they would know.

 

[SWANNIES RULE]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Gooding dribbled **** throughout the entire interview. Excuse after excuse - A poor attempt to try and cover up the double standards.

 

[frankc]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

exactly. well said by gunnar. there hasnt been any solid proof of any drug abuse at wce yet the victorian media are making dangerous allegations against the premiers. to those media outlets out there, show the proof of any sort of drug abuse at wce.

Mate the media will speculate on anything - it is a major beat up. As Crawf said, it is basically the media looking for a story.

Did you see the way Lyon was talking up Hutchy - nearly made me vomit.

 

[Captain Random]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Did you see the way Lyon was talking up Hutchy - nearly made me vomit.

I didn't see the show. What did Lyon have to say about the issue?

 

[bergholt]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

But if you talk to Perth-ites who're peripherally involved in the drug culture (eg other users of the drugs in question), you can't help but hear stories about particular Eagles. They love to tell them. Maybe it's because they know what we want to hear, but the word on the street is pretty damning for at least five Eagles players.

Whether anyone's actually got a problem or not is another question. Some people can get on it every weekend and function perfectly well during the week - why shouldn't AFL footballers be the same?

But it is a publicity problem for the club when they start getting caught or hospitalised or whatever. And if their drug culture is worse than other clubs around the league. Which it looks like, from the outside.

 

[Cyclops]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

This whole issue of drugs in AFL, and of West Coast supposedly being the worst offenders, is a total beat-up.

Rumour and innuendo are no substitute for real evidence, but that hasn't stopped commentators from inflating this issue at every opportunity.

Yes, in my experience nearly all journalists are dishonest scum. They make more news than they report, and can't tell the truth to save their skins. See Chewy's experience in this thread:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304228&page=6

The Footy Show interview with West Coast chairman Dalton Gooding was presented as some kind of massive expose - maybe I missed it, but was anything actually revealed?

He did this:

Gooding basically admitted their had been some discipline problems at the club,

I think he admitted there were drug problems, and they were bringing in drug counsellors. I don't think they did that before. I think this isn't a new problem, its just the beat up is getting too loud to ignore.

before saying the club wouldn't tolerate any more stuff-ups and that illicit drugs were unacceptable. What was the big revelation here? What else was he going to say? You'd get the same line on drugs and discipline from every chairman in the league.

I think previously he has said "no comment". Its good to hear him spell it out, and it contrasts with the previous silence on the issue. I am interested to see what "not tolerating more stuff ups" means. The Pies treated their last public miscreants (albeit implied drunken ones, not implied druggies) very lightly: after a mild fine, one was kept on in a leadership role and the other traded profitably at season's end. What will happen to the next Eagle duffer to do something that can be whisperingly attributed to a drug problem?

In the end West Coast have reacted positively to a problem. The problem has probably been worse in the past, and been dealt with in the past (eg Gardiner's sacking). Now there's a public beat-up, and they have reacted with a public statement.

However the President is on record admitting there is a problem, which is a new development.

 

[Sebastian Balboa]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

I think a lot of media are toking this issue up the nose without any evidence. I reckon GL is right to have a crack at the media and ice this issue early. Its crystal clear that the media are having a ball. But where theres smoke theres a bong.

Very punny

 

[Brewster_]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Have to agree that the media is having a field day beating this one up for all its worth. Pretty easy to intimate and suggest without any real evidence and I agree there are some failry spurious links being drawn to infer endemic "drug problems" at WCE (e.g Ben Cousins Crown incident, Daniel Kerr taxi stuff). Even if the Fletcher story involved drugs as is being suggested, who really cares? All the supporters of other teams getting stuck into the Eagles should really take a look in their own backyard first before getting all high and mighty. A couple of WCE players have just been dumb enough to get caught and when the media smells blood (or $) the feeding frenzy begins.

Must say I'm sick of the whole story really. A couple of years ago it was sexual assualt and now we've moved on to drugs to sell a few papers in the off-season. These are issues about society not confined to football players.

Bring on the real stuff I say so we can start talking about great goals, marks, bumps and not this crap.

Your common sense is not shared by many on these boards.

 

[Big Scottknowsall]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

I expect a degree of substantiation before stories are reported.

I'm a journalist - I do this everyday. You can't just report something you heard because it's interesting.

And if the media fail in that regard, then it needs to be pointed out.

Maybe I'm asking too much for the public to actually know a beat-up when they see one.

Hutchy went and interviewed WC and gave him every chance to give the 'evidence' to the contrary....he didn't, in actualt fact he washed his, and essentially WC's hands clean of the Vegas incident. He claimed as much as it being 'alcohol related'....well, up until yesterday, it had been refuted as a reaction to a needle....comflicting stories????

West Coast were given every opportunity to come clean on the Footy Show....in my opinion all that happened was an acceptance of drugs in the club, an acceptance that it is beyond the board's control and an admittance that the board is doing everythin they can to rectify and aducate said drug problem....

Not a beat up - A denial

 

[SWANNIES RULE]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

The severity of the punishments they hand out depends on how good the players is. That's the problem.

Last year they said Cousins had blew his last chance, he stuffs up again, and still no action.

 

[general mac]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

The reality is that I couldn't care less if West Coast players take drugs. Especially during the off-season.

You know why I don't care? Because I'm not a moronic wowser freaking out over this media-conjured spectre of drug-addled football players leading our children astray.

NEWSFLASH: Some young men take drugs. Do they all automatically have "drug problems"?

So even if it was proven that Fletcher was high as a kite in Vegas, I wouldn't be too upset. It was the off-season. Good luck to him, but he should be more careful.

What is annoying me is the way this story has been patched together from scraps of unsubstantiated rumour.

Show me the evidence. That's all I'm asking.

Until then, stop pretending that what's been reported so far is proof of anything.

Actually I agree.

This moronic prohibition in our sanitized corporate brave new world is such a load of crappolla. Especially when so many corporate types are indulging in recreational drug use.

Gross hypocracey.

 

[SWANNIES RULE]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Actually I agree.

This moronic prohibition in our sanitized corporate brave new world is such a load of crappolla. Especially when so many corporate types are indulging in recreational drug use.

Gross hypocracey.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Mate the media will speculate on anything - it is a major beat up. As Crawf said, it is basically the media looking for a story.

Did you see the way Lyon was talking up Hutchy - nearly made me vomit.

yeh i saw it i nearly smashed my remote control. it was revolting to say the very least. absolutely pathetic but again they are trying to make money as the nab cup has no prestige. basically theyre like the paparazzi but with sport. betcha gooding accepted the allegations just to shut the tabloids up rather than deny it and they continue with their hersay and innuendo.