The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast *MB thread*

[Father Jack]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Oooh Hutchy - he's so hardcore.

That crap about Hutchison being a newsbreaker and a great investigative journalist made me laugh and spew at the same time.

You'd think John Pilger had made an appearance.

Say what you will about Hutchison, he has at least pushed this debate into the realms of reality and not just conjecture, and I do believe that the Fletcher thing isn't quite done and dusted yet.

Lets not get too reactionary.

 

[Grunty]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Have to agree that the media is having a field day beating this one up for all its worth. Pretty easy to intimate and suggest without any real evidence and I agree there are some failry spurious links being drawn to infer endemic "drug problems" at WCE (e.g Ben Cousins Crown incident, Daniel Kerr taxi stuff). Even if the Fletcher story involved drugs as is being suggested, who really cares? All the supporters of other teams getting stuck into the Eagles should really take a look in their own backyard first before getting all high and mighty. A couple of WCE players have just been dumb enough to get caught and when the media smells blood (or $) the feeding frenzy begins.

Perhaps the reason for them focussing on the Eagles, as if its only the Eagles that are guilty of drug taking, is that they want to deflect the attention from upcoming revelations about their own clubs.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

This thread is a joke.

Deny Deny Deny.

 

[Father Jack]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

This thread is a joke.

Deny Deny Deny.

Yeah, hard evidence is so overrated. Do the courts even bother with it these days?

 

[The Kipster]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Are these beat ups? threatening girlfriends sisters with knives, smoking dope, forging prescriptions, Beating up people at night clubs, beating up people with your old man, running from booze buses, nearly choking to death on your own vomit during a drug induced haze (it is better than choking on someone else's I suppose), crashing cars into people's front yards, failing to give evidence in court against known underworld figures, subsequently hanging out with underworld figures.....so Iask you, are these beat ups?

 

[ant22]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Although drugs are a problem in Australian society alcohol is a much greater problem. From my experience sports clubs don't indulge in drugs any more than the rest of society but they do consume much more alcohol. It has always been my opinion that the first AFL club to lessen alcohol consumption among their players, if that is possible, will be a much better club for it, and have a distinct advantage over the other clubs. Therefore I think that the result of this massive beatup is that the Eagles are now the first club to attempt to seriously deal with alcohol abuse amongst its players. This will be a huge advantage leading into the new season.

Geez I can't agree with that. Your correct Alcohol is a problem(especially drink driving) But drugs is a massive problem in this country. I grew up with a lot of very good people with bright futures who have destroyed their lives(in some cases lost their lives) because of drug addication. Maybe its just me but I dont know nearly as many people of have destroyed their lives with alcohol.

 

[Milkman]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Are these beat ups? threatening girlfriends sisters with knives, smoking dope, forging prescriptions, Beating up people at night clubs, beating up people with your old man, running from booze buses, nearly choking to death on your own vomit during a drug induced haze (it is better than choking on someone else's I suppose), crashing cars into people's front yards, failing to give evidence in court against known underworld figures, subsequently hanging out with underworld figures.....so Iask you, are these beat ups?

1. Sampi threatened to harm himself, not his girlfriend's sister.

2. Who smoked dope? Heard nothing of that before.

3. Who beat up who at a nightclub? Again news to me.

4. Where is the evidence that Fletcher was on drugs?

5. You'd be stupid enough to give evidence against underworld figures?

6. This particular "underworld figure" owns and hangs out a prominent Perth nightclub. Even I know people who work there who from time to time surely speak to him.

No, no beatups there whatsoever.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Yeah, hard evidence is so overrated. Do the courts even bother with it these days?

OK, so I get how it works for you WC supporters.
Unless these allegations are proven in a court they are just fables?

Great stuff, I guess you'll apply the same theory to all alegations against all teams in future.

p.s
Yellow fever at the time of the incident.
months later it's blamed on Alcohol.
....and the latest "it's a personal issue between patient and doctor", "we don't know what happened".
I smell BS.

 

[Milkman]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

OK, so I get how it works for you WC supporters.
Unless these allegations are proven in a court they are just fables?

Who said anything about court?

I take it you just lap up everything the media tells you.

 

[Father Jack]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

OK, so I get how it works for you WC supporters.
Unless these allegations are proven in a court they are just fables?

Great stuff, I guess you'll apply the same theory to all alegations against all teams in future.

p.s
Yellow fever at the time of the incident.
months later it's blamed on Alcohol.
....and the latest "it's a personal issue between patient and doctor", "we don't know what happened".
I smell BS.

Um, yeah, I believe thats the whole basis of our legal system. Innocent until proven guilty. Yes, there is a problem, and the Fletcher thing is unresolved atm, but evidence is useful, otherwise you are just making it up.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

I'm not telling myself anything.

I just want to see some evidence.

This story is being pushed hard, but what's it based on?

My position of actually wanting to see some evidence is far more sound than your position of just swallowing anything that feeds your existing suspicions.

I think it's time I revealed my source about the drug problem at the Eagles. Here we go... you ready... wait for it.. it's.. it's.. it's Dalton Gooding.

 

[Polo_14]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

This whole issue of drugs in AFL, and of West Coast supposedly being the worst offenders, is a total beat-up.

Rumour and innuendo are no substitute for real evidence, but that hasn't stopped commentators from inflating this issue at every opportunity.

The Footy Show interview with West Coast chairman Dalton Gooding was presented as some kind of massive expose - maybe I missed it, but was anything actually revealed?

Gooding basically admitted their had been some discipline problems at the club, before saying the club wouldn't tolerate any more stuff-ups and that illicit drugs were unacceptable. What was the big revelation here? What else was he going to say? You'd get the same line on drugs and discipline from every chairman in the league.

This whole saga is marked as a beat-up by the complete lack of real information. I'm yet to see a shred of evidence that there is a "drug problem" in the AFL, or at West Coast or any other club.

Notice the way Hutchison kept referring to "a perception back East" that West Coast had a drug problem. That perception was emphasised because Hutchison had no actual evidence to use as a starting point for his questions. A perception - that's what's driving this beat-up.

I love the way commentators use "anecdotal evidence" to build their case. What does that phrase mean in this context? Rumour? Hearsay? In most reporting, that would not be sufficient to drive a story - but in this issue, that's considered a smoking gun.

Craig Hutchison spuriously linked Cousins getting locked up and Kerr assaulting a taxi driver with a supposed drug problem at West Coast. How does that work? Were drugs a factor in either incident?

Then there's the Fletcher incident. If anyone knows what happened in Las Vegas, then let's hear it. It's unsound to just assume it was a drug overdose in the absence of any real information?

Like I said - show me the evidence. Don't just recite unsubstantiated rumours or point to incidents that had nothing to do with drugs.

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less what Ben Cousins or any other player does or doesn't ingest in a nightclub. I have no interested whatsoever in this half-baked soap opera that surrounds players' off-field activities. The public appetite for this stuff mystifies me.

I thought most people follow football because they like the spectacle and the contest. Players will be judged on what they do on-field - and rightly so. Why is there such interest in everything else?

That said, the way this story about the "drug problem" has been manufactured needs to be pointed out.

People should demand some facts instead of just lapping up innuendo that feeds their dislike of the Eagles.

People would show evidence if there was no fear of a backlash. Ever wonder why the AFL will name and shame 2 players over $5 bets, yet bury there heads over this issue. It's pretty simple, they will not like what they find. Journo's and others know the truth, they are just too scared to report it, except for a select few.

 

[Polo_14]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Gunnar if you want evidence why don't you ring up Nisbett and ask him where he buried it.

Well Said

 

[Boltcutter]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

If you read the article on the front page of the West, headlined: West Coast boss admits: We have a drug problem you might wonder which editor removed the subhead: "They cost too much"

 

[m0nty]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Obviously Gunnar has had a life changing experience of his own if he thinks there isn't a drug problem at the WC.

 

[frankc]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

I didn't see the show. What did Lyon have to say about the issue?

Lyon really didn't say much. But I thought he was going to try and pick up hutchy there for a while.

The interview between Hutchy and Gooding was interesting. I personally thought gooding handled himself well and answered the questions approproately. However he did say that the club was unaware what happended to Chaf Fletcher.

Naturally however, Hutchy ensured that his suspicions about the fletcher situation had not dimisnished and he thought the eagles were hiding something.

I thought for once Carwf said the smartest thing in that the media and just trying to grab any story to fill the papers in the lead up to round one.

Personally I hope the eagles come out a beat the swans by 100 points and given everybody something else to talk about.

 

[Cyclops]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

Um, yeah, I believe thats the whole basis of our legal system. Innocent until proven guilty. Yes, there is a problem, and the Fletcher thing is unresolved atm, but evidence is useful, otherwise you are just making it up.

Actually it looks like the Eagles are making things up.

One of the bases of our legal system is the right to silence, that is, you don't have to incriminate yourself. If you are silly enough to open your mouth then it pays to tell the truth.

If they have issued 3 different stories (yellow fever/grog/don't know) about the one incident thats confused at best, most likely an attempt to cover up and at worst indicates a strong conciousness of wrongdoing.

 

[Milkman]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

If you read the article on the front page of the West, headlined: West Coast boss admits: We have a drug problem you might wonder which editor removed the subhead: "They cost too much"

Depends what you define as a problem. One man's problem is another man's good night out.

 

[thepower]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

as i said in another thread, if it wasn't west coast would the eagles fans be defending the club involved or sinking the boots in?

 

[frankc]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

I've said it already - show me the evidence.

I don't think you can accuse me of being in denial when no evidence has actually been presnted.

In reality, the media and the public - particularly in Victoria - are so desperate to inflate these half-baked smears against West Coast that they'll swallow anything, even it's totally unproven.

Gunnar, give you the tip. Most Football supporters in Victoria don't care what the media say. The media would say the some thing if the speculation centered around Adelaide or Collingwood. heavens above, could you imagine the media delight if Collingwood were in West Coast's position - we would never hear the end of it.

At the end of the day, the Eagles won the premiership. If things were so bad, you guys would never have won it. So don't worry about what a ******** like Hutchy has to say, or Mike Sheehan or Carro or whomever. You guys got the cup and naturally tallpoppy syndrome come out.

I would take a premiership with the media speculation anyday, than be portrayed as a pure, wholesome club that gets nowhere.

 

[Milkman]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

as i said in another thread, if it wasn't west coast would the eagles fans be defending the club involved or sinking the boots in?

Can only speak for myself, but the answer is neither.

 

[The Kipster]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

1. Sampi threatened to harm himself, not his girlfriend's sister. He threatened his girlfriends sister

2. Who smoked dope? Heard nothing of that before. See Above

3. Who beat up who at a nightclub? Again news to me. A Embley assaulted a punter at Club Bayview

4. Where is the evidence that Fletcher was on drugs? No evidence required

5. You'd be stupid enough to give evidence against underworld figures? You deny the justice system then if anything happens to you, suck eggs...no ticker in my book

6. This particular "underworld figure" owns and hangs out a prominent Perth nightclub. Even I know people who work there who from time to time surely speak to him. Now you are fooling yourself...deluded West Coast supporter surprise surprise

No, no beatups there whatsoever.

CRAPOLA

 

[Milkman]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

CRAPOLA

Quite.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

I take it you just lap up everything the media tells you.

No, but I have a mate who happens to be a longstanding friend of one of your premiership players and I know enough without having to read it in the media.

 

[Milkman]

Re: The Great Beat-Up: The Drug Problem at West Coast

No, but I have a mate who happens to be a longstanding friend of one of your premiership players and I know enough without having to read it in the media.

Even if I believed you, how does that make it unreasonable for someone who doesn't have a friend of a friend of a player to request actual evidence?