Politics The Hangar Politics Thread

[DapperJong]

Did you know our great state government does not even fully pay for the CFA trucks ? they have to fund raise to make up the gap.

Pretty ****ed!

My state government is run by Gladys the koala killer. Give me Andrews any day.

 

[ant555]

I was asking a question.

My next question is, do you think this is quick enough and do you think it could be done quicker?

And what of Adani? That's going to open soon. Bit weird if we are trying to get away from coal?

We are not getting out of coal. There is no getting out as there is nothing else in the next 50 years that would cover the income hit. We are a grwoing population that needs roads , transport, hospital, schools and coal helps fund it. We are a country built on mining income and there is not real short term way to change that.
Things have started in the fact they are pushing the new technology angle but mining and oil income is king around the globe and there is nothing that can match it. Lets face it oil companies are phasing out LPG here, it will be gone for cars within 10 years, because there is more income to be made selling it off shore.
Adani is about income and jobs. May not be popular in Melbourne but rural Queensland, that is another story. India are looking at building 30 plus coal power plants in the next 25 years so it is an issue. Stop mining and go without the jobs and income but have no effect at all. Between India and China they will build more than double the amount of coal fired stations than we will close.

 

[Loonerty]

Friendly reminder that India are the only nation in the G20 on target to meet their emission reduction targets.

 

[ant555]

Last year his party cut tens of million dollars of state funding for fire services.
Last month his party donated over 100 thousand dollars to his pedophile church for new security cameras.
He deserves every bit of vitriol that comes his way, and then some.

The NSW Liberal party did.
So has the Victorian Labour party which is pushing that money into the new MFB and out of what will be left of the CFA.
As for the other comment....... you have facts his church is full of paedophilia ?

And maybe some facts should be checked.

We fact checked Jodi McKay's claim on NSW bushfire funding. Here's what we found

NSW Opposition Leader Jodi McKay says the state's firefighting budget is facing a $40 million cut. RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

www.abc.net.au

 

[ant555]

Friendly reminder that India are the only nation in the G20 on target to meet their emission reduction targets.

For now although they are not actually signed up to the climate agreement.
We will struggle to meet ours as we keep increasing our population while not having a source of power like nuclear to provide 40% of our energy like Engal or France or Germany.

 

[DapperJong]

We are not getting out of coal. There is no getting out as there is nothing else in the next 50 years that would cover the income hit. We are a grwoing population that needs roads , transport, hospital, schools and coal helps fund it. We are a country built on mining income and there is not real short term way to change that.
Things have started in the fact they are pushing the new technology angle but mining and oil income is king around the globe and there is nothing that can match it. Lets face it oil companies are phasing out LPG here, it will be gone for cars within 10 years, because there is more income to be made selling it off shore.
Adani is about income and jobs. May not be popular in Melbourne but rural Queensland, that is another story. India are looking at building 30 plus coal power plants in the next 25 years so it is an issue. Stop mining and go without the jobs and income but have no effect at all. Between India and China they will build more than double the amount of coal fired stations than we will close.

This from 2017.

World’s biggest coal company closes 37 mines as solar power’s influence grows

Plummeting price of renewable energy puts pressure on fossil fuel firms

www.independent.co.uk

So even economically, coal is starting to get on the nose.

 

[ant555]

The fires are not unprecedented. The shortening time gaps between major fire events is. The fires are becoming more intense and the window to decrease the fuel load, as well as the window between fires, is becoming shorter.

That may be true but I was arguing not unprecedented.

Part of the issue is we no longer manage the fuel loads like we used do. We no longer graze national parks or burn off and we no longer log them at the same rate so the fuel loads build up at a quicker rate. The old logging roads that gave access are now not as wide spread.
The Weekly times have been trying to get the fuel load maps from the Andrew government for months but they refuse . In the end that said it would cost thousands to get them off their internal server. The Weekly Times then past $1200 for last years only to find it was a map produced months beofre their freedom of information claim.

 

[ant555]

He's being pilloried for his perceived complicity by bot disciplining Angus Taylor. That matter is now being investigated by the AFP.

Which will go nowhere and in the scheme of things making up some dodgy numbers and claiming it came from a Sydney council web site is not all that huge. Lets face it Labour here spent over $300,000 illegally paying the red shirts only to pay it back and spend over $3,000,000 trying to stop it being investigated only to have limited charges laid.

 

[ghostdog]

We are not getting out of coal. There is no getting out as there is nothing else in the next 50 years that would cover the income hit. We are a grwoing population that needs roads , transport, hospital, schools and coal helps fund it. We are a country built on mining income and there is not real short term way to change that.
Things have started in the fact they are pushing the new technology angle but mining and oil income is king around the globe and there is nothing that can match it. Lets face it oil companies are phasing out LPG here, it will be gone for cars within 10 years, because there is more income to be made selling it off shore.
Adani is about income and jobs. May not be popular in Melbourne but rural Queensland, that is another story. India are looking at building 30 plus coal power plants in the next 25 years so it is an issue. Stop mining and go without the jobs and income but have no effect at all. Between India and China they will build more than double the amount of coal fired stations than we will close.

I'd suggest that one of the reasons we're not getting out of coal quicker is because our governments recently haven't had the electoral courage to develop and enact policy that focuses on attracting investment to build our renewables industry. Labor tried to get the ball rolling but the right faction sabotaged that from the beginning, trying to sell it at an election labelled as a carbon tax.
Historically, our economy has been adaptable to circumstance, from wool to gold to mining and manufacturing. At least with the latter two we started to diversify and modernise. The current phase features mining, manufacturing and a growing services sector; manufacturing in obvious decline and coal mining unsustainable. Growing the renewables sector is an obvious way to mitigate the losses and get ahead of the game globally. I'll also say that if you speak to any CEO about system reform they'll tell you that when key elements are changed or enhanced there is usually an 'implementation dip' that occurs in terms of the costs of production or efficiency, but with persistence, what can emerge on the other side is better than what it was. Courage and creative policy making is what's needed, and leadership that inspires and brings the people along.

Edit: sorry, I meant a dip in profits of production

 

[ghostdog]

That may be true but I was arguing not unprecedented.

Part of the issue is we no longer manage the fuel loads like we used do. We no longer graze national parks or burn off and we no longer log them at the same rate so the fuel loads build up at a quicker rate. The old logging roads that gave access are now not as wide spread.
The Weekly times have been trying to get the fuel load maps from the Andrew government for months but they refuse . In the end that said it would cost thousands to get them off their internal server. The Weekly Times then past $1200 for last years only to find it was a map produced months beofre their freedom of information claim.

I'll go further and say this is a post-colonial problem. Aboriginal land management was practiced for 40000 years without the fire issues we're seeing now, because they recognised that fire is a natural part of our country's conditions. Their practice of cool burning was much more refined. It's probably about time consultative practice with Abiriginal people was taken more seriously.

 

[ant555]

This from 2017.

World’s biggest coal company closes 37 mines as solar power’s influence grows

Plummeting price of renewable energy puts pressure on fossil fuel firms

www.independent.co.uk

So even economically, coal is starting to get on the nose.

India expects coal-fired power capacity to grow 22% in 3 years

An increase in coal-fired power generation capacity would be bad news for India's cities, 14 of which feature in the World Health Organization's 20 most polluted in the world

news.trust.org

The future of India's coal-fired power generation capacity

Given the size and growth prospects of the Indian economy, the Indian power sector plays a key role in the global effort to mitigate climate change. H…

www.sciencedirect.com

Infographic: Where The Most Coal Power Plants Are Under Construction

This chart shows megawatts of coal power capacity under construction in 2018.

www.statista.com

You can find a lot of different news.
The fact that Indian companies are willing to invest billions on projects like Adani say the need is there.

 

[ghostdog]

Which will go nowhere and in the scheme of things making up some dodgy numbers and claiming it came from a Sydney council web site is not all that huge. Lets face it Labour here spent over $300,000 illegally paying the red shirts only to pay it back and spend over $3,000,000 trying to stop it being investigated only to have limited charges laid.

Maybe, but it doesn't help his public image-making that he's an apologist for his mate, who many perceive only to have been hired for his propaganda value anyway.

 

[DapperJong]

India expects coal-fired power capacity to grow 22% in 3 years

An increase in coal-fired power generation capacity would be bad news for India's cities, 14 of which feature in the World Health Organization's 20 most polluted in the world

news.trust.org

The future of India's coal-fired power generation capacity

Given the size and growth prospects of the Indian economy, the Indian power sector plays a key role in the global effort to mitigate climate change. H…

www.sciencedirect.com

Infographic: Where The Most Coal Power Plants Are Under Construction

This chart shows megawatts of coal power capacity under construction in 2018.

www.statista.com

You can find a lot of different news.
The fact that Indian companies are willing to invest billions on projects like Adani say the need is there.

I would say the need is there in some places, and in some places it is not. Our economy is stuck with it because most of our eggs are in that basket. Bit of pickle if you ask me.

 

[ant555]

I would say the need is there in some places, and in some places it is not. Our economy is stuck with it because most of our eggs are in that basket. Bit of pickle if you ask me.

Very big pickle. We are tied to mining or we are a third world country. Not ideal.
My little bit makes no difference but I have done what I can. Solar power system. 10,000 litre water tank. Planted 25 native trees in the garden.
At least I have tried.

 

[Howard Moon]

Irrespective of politics , coal, fires... All side issues. What has scomo done wrong?

When in need people want a leader, a strong, believable, yet empathetic leader. People see straight thru fake/forced/opportunistic empathy or leadership. When people are devistated they are acutely aware of emotions and what's going on about them

Scomo does not have it. Neither did shorten, so I'm not playing party lines here.

Do you actually think he's handling himself well?

If I had my time again I'd make different choices... On repeat.

 

[ant555]

Maybe, but it doesn't help his public image-making that he's an apologist for his mate, who many perceive only to have been hired for his propaganda value anyway.

Lots of these cases going around.
Like this one from the NSW opposition leader.

We fact checked Jodi McKay's claim on NSW bushfire funding. Here's what we found

NSW Opposition Leader Jodi McKay says the state's firefighting budget is facing a $40 million cut. RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

www.abc.net.au

 

[ghostdog]

Very big pickle. We are tied to mining or we are a third world country. Not ideal.
My little bit makes no difference but I have done what I can. Solar power system. 10,000 litre water tank. Planted 25 native trees in the garden.
At least I have tried.

I think there's always merit to an incentive based scheme. If individuals and households recognise it can benefit them in the short and long term, and in part that's because the government is willing to incentivise, people will change. If the government were to incentivise manufacturing and innovation, suddenly change seems a bit more doable.

 

[ghostdog]

Irrespective of politics , coal, fires... All side issues. What has scomo done wrong?

When in need people want a leader, a strong, believable, yet empathetic leader. People see straight thru fake/forced/opportunistic empathy or leadership. When people are devistated they are acutely aware of emotions and what's going on about them

Scomo does not have it. Neither did shorten, so I'm not playing party lines here.

Do you actually think he's handling himself well?

If I had my time again I'd make different choices... On repeat.

I would have a mix of Turnbull leading Labor.

 

[ant555]

Irrespective of politics , coal, fires... All side issues. What has scomo done wrong?

When in need people want a leader, a strong, believable, yet empathetic leader. People see straight thru fake/forced/opportunistic empathy or leadership. When people are devistated they are acutely aware of emotions and what's going on about them

Scomo does not have it. Neither did shorten, so I'm not playing party lines here.

Do you actually think he's handling himself well?

If I had my time again I'd make different choices... On repeat.

You have no pointed out anything he has done wrong other than in your opinion you think he is fake .
Do I think he is handling himself well ?
Not coming home quicker was a mistake.
Other than that.....can not see what more he can do. people want him home and then he is home and visiting he is a fake with forced empathy. Dammed if you do and dammed if you do not.

At the end of the day any Prime Minister has limited control on what can happen with bush fires as the fire services are state run and funded.

 

[quotemokc]

I'll go further and say this is a post-colonial problem. Aboriginal land management was practiced for 40000 years without the fire issues we're seeing now, because they recognised that fire is a natural part of our country's conditions. Their practice of cool burning was much more refined. It's probably about time consultative practice with Abiriginal people was taken more seriously.

Its not the same thing.

Aboriginals were nomadic, ergo they could light a bunch of fires and **** off somewhere else for a few years.

 

[ant555]

I think there's always merit to an incentive based scheme. If individuals and households recognise it can benefit them in the short and long term, and in part that's because the government is willing to incentivise, people will change. If the government were to incentivise manufacturing and innovation, suddenly change seems a bit more doable.

There is a lot of money available now days for innovation manufacturing. There are a few car part manufacturing factories in Melbourne who got decent fedral money and are now making products for export.
The Victorian solar rebate was a good idea but unfortunately poorly implemented which has nearly sent a number of solar installers out of business.
The pink bats scheme was another good idea that was poorly run.
Seems that the issue can be government involvement at times.

 

[BrunoV]

More like people believe the Andrews "nothing to see hear spin".
Exactly what has ScoMo done wrong ?

It's "the look", the thing that allows us to selectively determine whether we criticise someone for something.

He's come up with masterful press management strategy so they can't seem to get him on anything so they've gone with the one thing that always works, cynically covering human tragedy stories.

 

[ghostdog]

Lots of these cases going around.
Like this one from the NSW opposition leader.

We fact checked Jodi McKay's claim on NSW bushfire funding. Here's what we found

NSW Opposition Leader Jodi McKay says the state's firefighting budget is facing a $40 million cut. RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

www.abc.net.au

Yep. Politics is frustrating when they spin interpretations. I think the difference here is Taylor is accused of doctoring an actual document, whereas McKay was found to be bullshitting.

 

[ghostdog]

There is a lot of money available now days for innovation manufacturing. There are a few car part manufacturing factories in Melbourne who got decent fedral money and are now making products for export.
The Victorian solar rebate was a good idea but unfortunately poorly implemented which has nearly sent a number of solar installers out of business.
The pink bats scheme was another good idea that was poorly run.
Seems that the issue can be government involvement at times.

I hope they keep trying though. I believe in it.

 

[Runk]

What a crock of shit.
See this is what I talk about when I say people making comments without knowing anything!
There is already a state / commonwealth grant in place for around $42,000 for those who have lost their homes. He does not have to announce something that is already in place does he ?
The commonwealth can not go a lot further as rebuilding is an insurance/ council issue. I know as I have friends who lost their house in Kinglake and ended up moving away from that area because the cost to build under new regulations was more a lot than the insurance pay out they got. I know what they went through.

When one of your own ministers goes on national tv and tells his party leader to ‘get out the cheque book’ I think we can safely say he’s actually not doing that much. This is a bloke who found 180 million to stage a press conference on Xmas island ffs.