Mega Thread The Hird Appeal - Day 2 - Full Summary post #2

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Admiral Byng said:
That's what I was thinking too. It requires some bizarre pantomime to be carried out by the AFL / ASADA the way Hird's lawyer paints the picture that just seems too farcical in practice.
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Yep. Essentially there are two explanations for what is happening.

1. Hird cares passionately about administrative law. As was widely known throughout his career, he ****ing loves that administrative law, and he is willing to expend massive amounts of money, jeopardise the players interests and risk his job over a minor technical question of whether ASADA should be in a room or standing outside it, even when there is nothing in the evidence which could harm him or the because the idea of letting a procedural irregularity fly is so unacceptable to him.

2. Hird admitted to being a cheat in the interviews and is desperate to find any way to disqualify that evidence, even at the risk of relying on total flimflam.

I know which of the two possibilities my money is on.
 

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imperial_oz said:
I agree with you here and I've made the same point numerous times.

Two questions.

Do you agree that the players have a responsibility here as well?
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Some yes. However as the footballer who writes in the age stated, footballers are indoctrinated from the time they enter the system to do what they're told. It's not quite the same as an athlete who can pick and choose their own medical personnel. In this case I don't believe that 40 odd players set out to cheat,

What do you think of that fact that nobody in your admin seems to have accepted any level of responsibility?
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I think that's a strawman argument.

I'll clarify that by saying that even if no doping took place (I have my doubts) that the mere fact the program was run the way it was means that those who should have managed it properly should have fallen on their swords by now. I would include Hird as Senior Coach, Reid, Robinson and Thompson. Also members of your admin / board shouldn't be walking away saying 'not my fault'.
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CEO gone. Football dept head (x 2) gone. CEO gone. Head of sports Science, gone. Sports Scientist, gone. Depending on what occurs with the players we may well see any and all of Hird, Reid & Thompson gone, as well as most of the board. Until the outcome of the players cases is settled I think enough blood has been let.

If it was my club I'd be wanting heads to roll and things put in place to prevent this ever occurring again, including measures by the AFL (which doesn't seen to be happening)
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With respect, no one can say what they'd do if it was their club. It's easy to be a hindsight hero (not suggesting that you are). Measures have been put in place by the club (appt of an integrity officer, changes to the football dept structure and reporting) and the AFL (changes to the rules regarding supplements, vetting who can be employed) to ensure this doesn't happen again - what sort of measures are you looking for?
 
Dave said:
CEO gone. Football dept head (x 2) gone. CEO gone. Head of sports Science, gone. Sports Scientist, gone. Depending on what occurs with the players we may well see any and all of Hird, Reid & Thompson gone, as well as most of the board. Until the outcome of the players cases is settled I think enough blood has been let.
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Only when they are ALL gone (not talking about players) will enough blood be let. There should be a total clean out and IF what has been alluded to regarding guinea pigs proves to be correct, then only jail time for those involved would suffice.
 
Dave said:
Some yes. However as the footballer who writes in the age stated, footballers are indoctrinated from the time they enter the system to do what they're told. It's not quite the same as an athlete who can pick and choose their own medical personnel. In this case I don't believe that 40 odd players set out to cheat,

I think that's a strawman argument.

CEO gone. Football dept head (x 2) gone. CEO gone. Head of sports Science, gone. Sports Scientist, gone. Depending on what occurs with the players we may well see any and all of Hird, Reid & Thompson gone, as well as most of the board. Until the outcome of the players cases is settled I think enough blood has been let.

With respect, no one can say what they'd do if it was their club. It's easy to be a hindsight hero (not suggesting that you are). Measures have been put in place by the club (appt of an integrity officer, changes to the football dept structure and reporting) and the AFL (changes to the rules regarding supplements, vetting who can be employed) to ensure this doesn't happen again - what sort of measures are you looking for?
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I think the AFL needs to have some kind of oversight function here. While clubs may wish to keep their secrets, I think that somebody external to each club needs to be able to come in and have full oversight. If not from the AFL (and I share people's reservations about the level of integrity displayed) then maybe somebody from ASADA or similar with backing from the AFL's powers can come in and be fully aware of everything going on.

Leaving it all up to the club's doctors hasn't been a recipe for success has it?

Disagree with your strawman comment. For me it's one of the central issues. Somebody has to be held responsible and even those who have departed seemingly haven't been held responsible. Your club, rightly or wrongly depending on how you see things, is deep in the mire. That won't go away while it's nobody's fault. You may see that as unfair but thats the way it is.

Darn right I'd be cranky if it was Freo is this spot. I'd be damn cranky with the management failings that allowed it to happen and I'd want heads to roll. I'm pretty down on drugs in sport. I do not share the attitude that some have championed that it should be a free for all to make a level playing field. Somebody decided that it was ok to give S0 drugs to players for a short term gain and no remorse as to the consequences. We do not know and cannot know at this stage that something like AOD isn't another Thalidomide. That sort of decision shouldn't be one that people can just walk away from in my view.

We probably won't agree but thats my attitude.

Now we need to find out if there was any intention to dope with S2 drugs. I guess thats next in the process.
 
Dave said:
CEO gone. Football dept head (x 2) gone. CEO gone. Head of sports Science, gone. Sports Scientist, gone. Depending on what occurs with the players we may well see any and all of Hird, Reid & Thompson gone, as well as most of the board. Until the outcome of the players cases is settled I think enough blood has been let.
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CEO left for personal reasons.

Head of sports science and sports scientist left due to an increase in soft tissue injuries 6months before this was exposed.

Hird accepted full responsibility, then denies he actually meant it, gets a contract extension, $1million and a sabbatical to study in paris at an exclusive business school.

thompson gets promoted to head coach for a year, was fined $30k for his role in this ordeal and cared about it so much that he refused to pay it.

no one at essendon has offered any real remorse or taken any meaningful responsibility for what happened.
 
Dave said:
Some yes. However as the footballer who writes in the age stated, footballers are indoctrinated from the time they enter the system to do what they're told. It's not quite the same as an athlete who can pick and choose their own medical personnel. In this case I don't believe that 40 odd players set out to cheat,
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I don't believe they did either, but in future you'd hope players would exercise some nouse and at least question it. I can excuse 18 year old rookies, but 25 year old 100+ gamers should know better. Even if it was all very innocent at the beginning, how many hundred needles do these guys need before they start to wonder about it?
 

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The innocent welcome the truth, the guilty do everything in their power to stop the truth from surfacing.

The whole saga infuriates all non Essendon fans and a large proportion of sane Essendon fans. Hird is so far out of touch with reality it's beyond a joke now and he must resign. Everyone makes mistakes. Those that accept responsibility and cop their right whack we respect. Why should Hird get a paid "suspension", a contract extension when others are sacked or forced to resign in disgrace? Arguably some of those in disgrace and cast out were less involved than Golden Boy.

Hird said they will be in a very good position when the truth comes out, and now he is taking every possible avenue to keep it under wraps and that just erodes every bit of respect he once deserved.

He's got something on the board stopping them from sacking him. In turn that is making them the laughing stock of the AFL. Do we really need any more evidence that James Hird places himself above everything and everyone else?
 
For those of us that haven't followed it closely, when do we expect a verdict?
 
In other news, The Melbourne legal fraternity would like to thank James Albert and his lovely wife for their on going financial support.

http://theage.domain.com.au/real-es...-avenue-mansion-swinford-20141104-11gubk.html

James Hird finally hand passes Toorak Avenue mansion Swinford
Essendon coach James Hird and his wife, Tania, have offloaded one of their Toorak mansions, Swinford.

A renovation rescue turned investment property, historic Swinford hit the market nine months ago with a price guide of about $4.75 million.
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The question now is will the verdict be out before or after they reach an agreement in the Adelaide Oval review?
 
Broken_Chairs said:
CEO left for personal reasons.

Head of sports science and sports scientist left due to an increase in soft tissue injuries 6months before this was exposed.

Hird accepted full responsibility, then denies he actually meant it, gets a contract extension, $1million and a sabbatical to study in paris at an exclusive business school.

thompson gets promoted to head coach for a year, was fined $30k for his role in this ordeal and cared about it so much that he refused to pay it.

no one at essendon has offered any real remorse or taken any meaningful responsibility for what happened.
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Only one guy did and that was David Evans and the club turned on him. You're right though, the EFC have been disgraceful, absolutely shameful in the way they have not shown any remorse for what they did, just pumping out lines like "governance", instead of "we're sorry, it was the wrong thing to do".
 
James Hird appeal verdict could derail ASADA case against Essendon 34

  • Michael Warner
  • Herald Sun
  • December 18, 2014 8:20PM

147114-6e51dbc8-8689-11e4-9f59-4e93e361b697.jpg

James Hird leaves Federal Court after his appeal in November. Picture: Mark Stewart Source: Mark Stewart / News Corp Australia


A VERDICT in James Hird's Federal Court appeal against ASADA could be handed down next week.

It is understood the three Federal Court judges presiding over the Hird appeal are keen to deliver their judgment before Christmas, having already granted an expedited hearing.

A decision in favour of Hird could stop ASADA's pursuit of 34 current and former Essendon players in its tracks.

ASADA v ESSENDON: EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW

The AFL anti-doping tribunal convened again on Thursday where Essendon's new in-house lawyer, Michael Abrahams, failed in an application “to be present and represent” the club during the three-week hearing.




150084-6ffd3534-868f-11e4-9f59-4e93e361b697.jpg

Macca’s take on the Hird appeal.Source: Supplied




The Bombers are not a party to the proceedings but wanted access to the climax of footy's two-year doping scandal.
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http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...inst-essendon-34/story-e6frf3e3-1227161147140
 
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