The Matthews / Bruns incident. What was it that caused the aftermath ?

[TheFourPillars]

Incident occurred 20 minutes into the gane, hardly qualifies as "all day" even if Watson had been niggling him.

hahaha yeah well lets just say he didn't have the patience to deal with it all day

 

[Partridge]

I remember Gazza collecting big Alex Ischenko in the same manner when Ischenko was playing for North. He was standing in the hole and Gazza cleaned him up (to be fair he didn’t hit him anything like he did to Gastev and Dipper).

Actually it gets forgotten how physical Ablett was. He ran through Wayne Johnston and pretty much ended his career. He hurt blokes badly.

That's the key word though. He was definitely physical. I'm not sure he was a thug at all.

The one thing Ablett didn't like or tolerate - and I met players who told me this - was being scragged off the ball. That's what Lyon was doing. You can almost see the footage (he's just out of screen), the ball was pretty close, he was getting pulled back by the jumper, and he swung an arm behind him. It wasn't a king hit 50 metres off the ball or anything like that.

He was no angel, but there were plenty of dirtier players even at Geelong. Garry Hocking and Damian Bourke were far nastier than Ablett ever was.

 

[theGav56]

This is a great post. I remember this incident. I was 12 or 13 at the time and recall the terrible uncertainty if he would survive. They spoke to his young wife on the news and she was understandably distraught and unsure what would happen.

I also remember that interview on World of Sport and I thought Allan Jeans was trying to deflect by refusing to answer any questions.

How no criminal charges were laid against O’Dea is beyond comprehension. I suspect, as has been said, Jeans influence in the Police force had something to do with that. 10 weeks by the VFL was pretty lenient too I think.

Just a terrible and uncalled for incident. Something I will never forget even though I didn’t support either side. How does someone live with themselves after doing something like that, or am I just an emotional old woman who’s never played the game?

The VFL is the liable party and it really should never have been allowed to escalate to criminal charges. We can quite rightly throw shade at the coaches and the players involved but at some level they were enabled by those running the show

If that kind of thing happened last season there may well have been criminal charges laid, but the AFL would have rightly been held to account for failing to protect players. It was not simply the act of thuggery, it was a failure to control the game and protect participants.

 

[My Tilly]

That's the key word though. He was definitely physical. I'm not sure he was a thug at all.

The one thing Ablett didn't like or tolerate - and I met players who told me this - was being scragged off the ball. That's what Lyon was doing. You can almost see the footage (he's just out of screen), the ball was pretty close, he was getting pulled back by the jumper, and he swung an arm behind him. It wasn't a king hit 50 metres off the ball or anything like that.

He was no angel, but there were plenty of dirtier players even at Geelong. Garry Hocking and Damian Bourke were far nastier than Ablett ever was.

I reckon he was thug for sure.
On many occasions, he could have contested the play without going the man but he invariably chose not to. This is what made him a threat as opposition players were always wary of his presence.

Having said that, on many occasions, his teammates would get hit behind the play and Ablett would often square up the ledger at some point in the game.
He was like that, backing up teammates but make no mistake about it, he was ruthless and I would say very much a thug in the same way Matthews, Lockett, Rhys-Jones & Brereton were.

Players like Millane, Worsfold, M.Harvey, Archer, Merrett, Hocking . . . they played it tough but often fair. Usually on the border of thuggery.

 

[Gone Critical]

Yeah David was due for that one.

Banks dished that one out on behalf of the entire league with all and sundry nodding in somber approval.

Also Rhys had tried to belt Banks a few moments before that. Immediate retribution

 

[Gone Critical]

The 2nd hit on this tape against Wrighty was at Vic Park. A few minutes before Wright had cleaned up a young Eagle. Worsfold clearly said to himself I have to do a pay back. Almost the most impressive thing was it took him only a couple of minutes to "find" a situation where he could deal out the punishment. Tough tough player

 

[Osho]

The 2nd hit on this tape against Wrighty was at Vic Park. A few minutes before Wright had cleaned up a young Eagle. Worsfold clearly said to himself I have to do a pay back. Almost the most impressive thing was it took him only a couple of minutes to "find" a situation where he could deal out the punishment. Tough tough player

My mother thought John was a handsome bugga with his twinkling white teeth, and always had excuses ready for his wild behaviour. Though I thought that particular bump was within the laws, and many a time I tried to emulate it fighting for a short queue at Safeway, or getting through the Friday night fish n chip crush at Mario's.

As a pharmacy fella, I often wondered if he was moonlighting while coach of Eagles, probably not, I think he's pretty straight, but geewizz, what a coincidence.

 

[Gone Critical]

Yeah he’s up there in the top ten for sure.
But he was a ruck rover turned small forward goal kicker. Brilliant balance and poise and never went to ground. Much like Gaz jr and Swan…hard working play makers.

But for sheer value to the team …with their superior marking skills in all conditions along with elite kicking skills from all angles and distances…I rate Coleman, Coventry, Dick Pratt, Carey, Lockett, Dunstall , Lloyd and various many other big forwards more worthy of greatness.

That’s the hardest position to play.always has been.

The media really hammered on about Lethal for decades…because he’s been in the media and a coach for decades.

KB was just as good as a small forward too.

Matthews the best player i have seen and been watching since the 60's

 

[King Tut]

Also Rhys had tried to belt Banks a few moments before that. Immediate retribution

He’d successfully belted Banksy. Banksy’s eye was split open but he wasn’t KO’d. DRJ was.

 

[Shane Heard]

Also Rhys had tried to belt Banks a few moments before that. Immediate retribution

I remember DRJ starting fights and belting blokes in his debut season and subsequent early years as a league player.

Just a lover of mindless violence he was. A few fries short of a full happy meal.

 

[Sttew]

Jeans comes across as a cnt

Never liked being in the limelight

 

[Sttew]

Strangest thing to me is what a nice fellow Matthews seems to be off the field.
A little eccentric ( don't know if some of the weird stories you hear about him are true ), but the couple of times I've encountered him over the years he seems so friendly and easy going.

He has been a commentator on 3AW for many years now. It must be a condition of his contract that nobody can ask any questions about the Bruns incident.

 

[Partridge]

I reckon he was thug for sure.
On many occasions, he could have contested the play without going the man but he invariably chose not to. This is what made him a threat as opposition players were always wary of his presence.

Having said that, on many occasions, his teammates would get hit behind the play and Ablett would often square up the ledger at some point in the game.
He was like that, backing up teammates but make no mistake about it, he was ruthless and I would say very much a thug in the same way Matthews, Lockett, Rhys-Jones & Brereton were.

Players like Millane, Worsfold, M.Harvey, Archer, Merrett, Hocking . . . they played it tough but often fair. Usually on the border of thuggery.

Also have to remember shepherding off the ball (within 5 metres) was a lot more common then. As was colliding with defenders dropping into the hole. Mitchell White was another one who got cleaned up by Ablett leading out and not stopping.

 

[Partridge]

He has been a commentator on 3AW for many years now. It must be a condition of his contract that nobody can ask any questions about the Bruns incident.

Yeah if you ever want evidence of the hypocrisy of the footy media, the way they suck up to Matthews has to be right up there. They're only too happy to draw and quarter modern players for sneezing on opponents during a game but they won't dare criticise him.

 

[My Tilly]

Also have to remember shepherding off the ball (within 5 metres) was a lot more common then. As was colliding with defenders dropping into the hole. Mitchell White was another one who got cleaned up by Ablett leading out and not stopping.

True.

But the elbows he used and on a couple of occassions, saw him tangle his legs deliberately with an opponent to inflict nasty injuries.
A Sydney player did his knee because of an Ablett tackle and he sometimes smacked a player at the base of the pack as was the incident with Danny Frawley back in 1990.

 

[Partridge]

True.

But the elbows he used and on a couple of occassions, saw him tangle his legs deliberately with an opponent to inflict nasty injuries.
A Sydney player did his knee because of an Ablett tackle and he sometimes smacked a player at the base of the pack as was the incident with Danny Frawley back in 1990.

I can't recall anything like that. Who was the Sydney player who did his knee?

 

[My Tilly]

I can't recall anything like that. Who was the Sydney player who did his knee?

Not sure but there's a clip available



He was a nasty footballer

 

[parsons nose]

Matthews was a different beast to any other player at the time. We had thugs like Magro and Banks who cheerfully spotted opponents. Dipper and Brereton have been mentioned as freely swinging (as well as playing top notch footy).

Jacko was a weird clown, could play but had that "look at me" attitude, and threw his elbows theatrically. Definitely rough, maybe a thug.

Matthews was something else, really disliked and belted fellas so he could win. He was also notoriously selfish. At the time, as a neutral I'd say in the early 1980s Lethal was the worst thug in the league by a wide margin (taking into account Magro, Ditterich, Ablett, Rotten Ronny Andrews, and enforcers like Jim Edmund).

There was a sense he got away with it more (not sure he did in reality) and I think this conspiracy theory thinking was part if the groundswell against him.

If Lethal argued Bruns was on par with himself as a thug hes dreaming. Matthews was infamous.

I think Abletts thuggery was excused because he was so visibly brilliant.

It was also variable, some days he was all about the ball: in the 89 GF he meted out retribution but didn't start anything. Other days, he'd put Gary Lyon to sleep off the ball because he was irritable. Then dobbed himself in? Wtf?

Against the Pies a couple of times he roughed up Pert fairly, no thuggery, and took heavy hits in return from Kelly Pert etc. You just never knew with God.

Kevin Sheedy is on record as saying the only time he ever shat himself on a footy field is when he saw Leigh Matthews’ tree trunk thighs charging towards him. I’m sure his not the only player of that era to share the sentiment.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I remember Lethal talking in a doco “ 150 Years of Australian football “
about the hit and he had no real explanation for it.

Yeah said something along the lines of "I thought to myself 'what did I do that for?'"

Probably because he was a thug and it was in his nature, not like that was the one and only time he coward hit someone behind play while they weren't looking. Had been doing it since his earliest days in the league.

 

[Dan Moody]

With Patra orange juice and a Gold Nugget ham?

And the Ballantines chocolates

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Neale literally announced to Jeans and the whole team in a meeting on the Thursday night before the 71 GF that he was going to knock Hudson unconscious.

That tells you all you need to know about Jeans, his teams and the way he coached.

Again, I get it was a different era. But all were not equal when it come to violence and thuggery. And we're not talking about toe-to-toe, duke it out violence. We're talking targeted king hitting of opponents who weren't expecting it.

Sheedy learnt the lesson, made sure his team's would be the ones dishing it out instead of receiving all the way up to 2000 when Dean Wallis crushed the throat of an 18yo Brad Green and Long tried to cripple a young Simmonds.

 

[Cyclops]

Yeah said something along the lines of "I thought to myself 'what did I do that for?'"

Probably because he was a thug and it was in his nature, not like that was the one and only time he coward hit someone behind play while they weren't looking. Had been doing it since his earliest days in the league.

It was a little out of character . Matthews was a thug, and I don't think you're suggesting he was a coward, but to be clear he wasn't a coward.

My impression is he liked to win, and saw violence as a means to an end. He would belt blokes so they played worse, and other players would be scared of him.

The Bruns hit didn't help Hawthorn much, he was a decent player but hardly BOG. I think Matthews was upset with Geelong giving a bit of stick back. In the 1970s and 80s they were quite a fair side, so Jacko being a theatrical boofhead biffing the fullback ( Kel Moore was it?) And also sticking up for himself was possibly unexpected.

 

[King Tut]

It was a little out of character . Matthews was a thug, and I don't think you're suggesting he was a coward, but to be clear he wasn't a coward.

My impression is he liked to win, and saw violence as a means to an end. He would belt blokes so they played worse, and other players would be scared of him.

The Bruns hit didn't help Hawthorn much, he was a decent player but hardly BOG. I think Matthews was upset with Geelong giving a bit of stick back. In the 1970s and 80s they were quite a fair side, so Jacko being a theatrical boofhead biffing the fullback ( Kel Moore was it?) And also sticking up for himself was possibly unexpected.

Matthew’s was a thug but also hard as nails. Being such an amazing player saw him targeted many a time. In the 70’s he was bandaged up from copping whacks all the time. He just gave them back every bit as hard.
I remember his brother Kelvin was a far less talented but even stockier and more powerful version of Leigh. The bloke was built like two brick shithouses.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

And that's the essence of the entire business. There have always been really tough players but invariably they have been the ones contesting the ball in man on man situations. From time to time blokes would lose their temper (think Mal Brown, Barry Hall, Phil Carman and the classical John Bourke in the VFL who hit everyone from players to trainers to spectators!)

But its the king-hits, the gutless "executions" that certain players have visited on unsuspecting opponents that make spectators blood boil. They are criminal acts, assaults perpetrated under the guise of a football code and they enable lesser players to influence the lives and careers of their innocent victims.

Gun players have always attracted the "extra attention" of opponents. They get tagged, held off the ball, blocked, pushed to unbalance, gut punched (winded), verbally and physically abused and the AFL and other codes seemingly accept that. BUT when thugs can physically injure opponents intentionally in order to win a game of footy then the game is in a perilous state.

Country footballers have known this thuggery for years. Perhaps thankfully for us the AFL only revisits the true reality of it on rare occasions but for John Greening, Alan Stoneham, Des Healey and others...the premeditated violence ended their dreams.

Des Healey? Surely you're not claiming the clash with Bluey Adams was deliberate/king hit? The game was over and Adams KOd himself in the process , it was clumsy but putting it in the same league as Greening/Odea, come on.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

It was a little out of character . Matthews was a thug, and I don't think you're suggesting he was a coward, but to be clear he wasn't a coward.

I'm saying the act was cowardly. Hitting people who can't see it coming or are unable to protect themselves because they are going for the ball is cowardly. It's not tough. The tough ones were the players trying to win the ball even though they knew they would cop a cheap hit. And yes no club is immune, Grinter was one of the worst of his era though became a lot tamer in his later years.