The Matthews / Bruns incident. What was it that caused the aftermath ?

[King Tut]

Jeans comes across as a cnt

Because he was. Tried to portray himself as a moral, custodian of the game but coached two teams of dogs, thugs and snipers. It’s not a coincidence.

 

[Cyclops]

Because he was. Tried to portray himself as a moral, custodian of the game but coached two teams of dogs, thugs and snipers. It’s not a coincidence.

Look at Hawthorn he was mentoring skills coach. He did use his skills as a wrestler to humiliate some of the feisty young fellows and threw Dipper around the lockercroom for being cheeky, so the brutal cop was still there, but Brereton is on record (somewhere) saying Jeans turned them into a skilled side and it wasn't until Joyve took over fir 88 that he brought back some steel.

Hes a complicated fellow. At St Kilda he had a team notorious for rough play, and thugs like ODea stood in the shadow of Carl Ditterich, a cruel and vicious player.

Jeans coached Hawthorn in the 1980s, when Hawthorn ranked with my mob as the most racist club of all. I suspect Jeans knew, like Matthews did at Collingwood-Matthews helped remove it, Jeans may have tried.

The Hawks were zoned (like the 1960s Saints) some monsters: Dipper and Brereton hurt blokes for fun and profit. I don't think Jeans moulded them, they were their own men.

Jeans definitely didn't "create" Matthews. Lethal was known as a brutal thug even by the standards of the colourful 1970s.

I think Jeans was as a coach of his era, and was dirty even for the 60s and 70s.

I think he calmed down by the 80s and the dirty deeds were tolerated but maybe not directed anymore. Dipper was feared when he played at North Kew ( my bro and cousin were one age bracket down but he would instruct opposition clubs not to hurt the young ones filling in for the seniors, and the men listened). Matthew was was snotting blokes for over a decade before Yabby arrived.

McKennas anger was quite understandable. It looked like ODea/Greening again. The Matthews hit on Bruns caused a sensation, like Ablett on Lyon or Barry Hall on that Eagle. It was once in a decade stuff, I remember as a neutral thinking how bad it was. I was a teen at the time and the penny didn't drop about the Greening connection until later.

My impression of those 80s Hawks was there were 3 thugs: Matthews the psycho, an unfunny king hitter who cheated to win in an ugly way: and Dipper and Brereton whoplayed with joy, their thuggery was more about boof headedness if that makes any sense. I never thought they were evil, or psycho, like Barry Hall or Ablett on a bad day.

The rest of the Hawks were gentler. Dear, Dunstall, Platten weren't thugs.

 

[vikingpimp]

Look at Hawthorn he was mentoring skills coach. He did use his skills as a wrestler to humiliate some of the feisty young fellows and threw Dipper around the lockercroom for being cheeky, so the brutal cop was still there, but Brereton is on record (somewhere) saying Jeans turned them into a skilled side and it wasn't until Joyve took over fir 88 that he brought back some steel.

Hes a complicated fellow. At St Kilda he had a team notorious for rough play, and thugs like ODea stood in the shadow of Carl Ditterich, a cruel and vicious player.

Jeans coached Hawthorn in the 1980s, when Hawthorn ranked with my mob as the most racist club of all. I suspect Jeans knew, like Matthews did at Collingwood-Matthews helped remove it, Jeans may have tried.

The Hawks were zoned (like the 1960s Saints) some monsters: Dipper and Brereton hurt blokes for fun and profit. I don't think Jeans moulded them, they were their own men.

Jeans definitely didn't "create" Matthews. Lethal was known as a brutal thug even by the standards of the colourful 1970s.

I think Jeans was as a coach of his era, and was dirty even for the 60s and 70s.

I think he calmed down by the 80s and the dirty deeds were tolerated but maybe not directed anymore. Dipper was feared when he played at North Kew ( my bro and cousin were one age bracket down but he would instruct opposition clubs not to hurt the young ones filling in for the seniors, and the men listened). Matthew was was snotting blokes for over a decade before Yabby arrived.

McKennas anger was quite understandable. It looked like ODea/Greening again. The Matthews hit on Bruns caused a sensation, like Ablett on Lyon or Barry Hall on that Eagle. It was once in a decade stuff, I remember as a neutral thinking how bad it was. I was a teen at the time and the penny didn't drop about the Greening connection until later.

My impression of those 80s Hawks was there were 3 thugs: Matthews the psycho, an unfunny king hitter who cheated to win in an ugly way: and Dipper and Brereton whoplayed with joy, their thuggery was more about boof headedness if that makes any sense. I never thought they were evil, or psycho, like Barry Hall or Ablett on a bad day.

The rest of the Hawks were gentler. Dear, Dunstall, Platten weren't thugs.

There was a 60 Minutes segment around 87-89 (can't seem to find it on Youtube) that interviewed Dipper and Dermie, maybe Ayres (?) about their alleged thuggery. Think Mike Munro interviewed them. What perplexed me is that they threw Platten in with them

 

[King Tut]

There was a 60 Minutes segment around 87-89 (can't seem to find it on Youtube) that interviewed Dipper and Dermie, maybe Ayres (?) about their alleged thuggery. Think Mike Munro interviewed them. What perplexed me is that they threw Platten in with them

Ayres was brave and legit tough. Zero thuggery about him whatsoever.
Dermie was a star and also tough and brave but capable of dog acts see the Frawley incident in 1988 and the Tallis idiocy. But he was always a spur of the moment sort of player. Not calculated maliciousness imo.
Dipper was an underrated player. Surprisingly highly skilled and a lovely bloke off field (I’ve met him) but he was a dirty bastard. It was the era but he stood out even in that era as extremely rugged. He was deliberate in his thuggery whether under Jeans orders or not.

 

[Osho]

Because he was. Tried to portray himself as a moral, custodian of the game but coached two teams of dogs, thugs and snipers. It’s not a coincidence.

Bingo.

 

[Cyclops]

Ayres was brave and legit tough. Zero thuggery about him whatsoever.
Dermie was a star and also tough and brave but capable of dog acts see the Frawley incident in 1988 and the Tallis idiocy. But he was always a spur of the moment sort of player. Not calculated maliciousness imo.
Dipper was an underrated player. Surprisingly highly skilled and a lovely bloke off field (I’ve met him) but he was a dirty bastard. It was the era but he stood out even in that era as extremely rugged. He was deliberate in his thuggery whether under Jeans orders or not.

Ayres did go a little feral in the 1989 Grand Final (out if character, he was usually hard but fair), shirtfronted Ablett in the goalsquare.

Yeats had already dropped Brereton, and I think Platten had been snotted too so it was on.

Ayres deviated from the line of the ball and collected Ablett with a hip and shoulder that caught Gods chin IIRC, looked like GAS was asleep before he hit the ground. Bobbed up at once, miraculous, and crunched Dipper so hard he put his rib through his lung. FMD it was a hot game.

Hard to blame Blight, Hawks had belted some of his players off the ball in round 5 or 6, most notably Brereton smacking Yeats at a throw in. Of course there was still bad blood from Bruns.

Matthews being charged opened a can of worms (plenty of fights in footy) but Matthews act was a very low act by a very dirty player, they had to do something.

 

[bobs head soup]

Great thread.

The AFL is a strange little world.

So much hand wringing about the potential Hall Of Fame/Legend recognition of other great players with off field failings.

And yet, the only player who actually has criminal proceedings against him as a result of on field actions is accorded Legend status, no problem at all.

Hardly an isolated incident either, myriad other examples of behind the play outright thuggery.

Even has AFL awards named after him.

Strange.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Yep.. dipper on stoneham

Dipper on Walsh

Robertson’s cowardly attack on Tim

Clayton got dipper back for stoneham though

Robertson tells the story about that hit on Tim. Who was niggling him all day and finally he said to him you do that once more and I am going to deck you and the rest is history.

 

[Cyclops]

Great thread.

The AFL is a strange little world.

So much hand wringing about the potential Hall Of Fame/Legend recognition of other great players with off field failings.

And yet, the only player who actually has criminal proceedings against him as a result of on field actions is accorded Legend status, no problem at all.

Hardly an isolated incident either, myriad other examples of behind the play outright thuggery.

Even has AFL awards named after him.

Strange.

In the Boys Club lethal is the Alpha, they literally fall over themselves to adore him.

We loved him at Collingwood, he was our sociopath. He's always very honest and direct and admits his failings.

Having two influential clubs behind him, and his great achievements at Brisbane to consolidate the legend, means he has not missed out on any honours.

Like Yabby Jeans, a complex man and has some great strengths and admirable qualities, as well as the disturbing and horrible ones as well.

 

[Osho]

Robertson tells the story about that hit on Tim. Who was niggling him all day and finally he said to him you do that once more and I am going to deck you and the rest is history.

Yeah, remember that well. Robbo telegraphed intention, but Tim ignored it. Wasn't Robbo BoG that day...

 

[Osho]

There was a 60 Minutes segment around 87-89 (can't seem to find it on Youtube) that interviewed Dipper and Dermie, maybe Ayres (?) about their alleged thuggery. Think Mike Munro interviewed them. What perplexed me is that they threw Platten in with them

Poor ol' John Platten is the worse for wear these days with his CTE. An advertisement for not putting your head over the ball and not going hard into packs to get the ball.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Ayres was also king hit from behind in that game by Jackson who punched him from behind on the back of the head. There was a lot of niggle in the game.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

um, I dont think a former Collingwood player would be asking that question, just quietly!!

Hmm, dunno why it's taken me 8 months to respond, but anyway.

There's a big difference between a former player and a former coach who would have had a big say in who they recruited back in that time period. Maybe negative experiences as a copper played a part in it too.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Ayres was also king hit from behind in that game by Jackson who punched him from behind on the back of the head. There was a lot of niggle in the game.

As Batfink used to say, 'your king hits cannot harm me, my mullet is like a shield of steel'.

 

[parsons nose]

In Matthew’s autobiography when recalling the game, noted that an ugly pall had descended over Kardinia Park, in no small part as a result of the antics of Jacko. Jacko had in fact, completely lost the plot. Maththew’s added that the umpires had lost control of the game and he had remonstrated with them (something he rarely did) prior to king hitting Bruns.

Lying in his hospital bed, Bruns, for his part, was asked to comment on what he thought of Matthews and in reply he said ‘I think he’s the pits’. Reflecting on that comment Matthews observed that Bruns was a hypocrite, and it was common knowledge around the league that Bruns, himself was a little sniper. No love lost there.

As a side note, I wasn’t at the game, instead listening to it on the radio. So appalled were the commentators calling the game, and I can’t remember who they, were suggesting that the game be called off.

 

[Rabish Binney]

Poor ol' John Platten is the worse for wear these days with his CTE. An advertisement for not putting your head over the ball and not going hard into packs to get the ball.

He was on the TV about 6 months ago, going into detail about his declining memory & mood swings a a result of his numerous concussion's during his playing days (don't forget he played 5 seasons with Central Districts in the SANFL before going to Hawthorn and had suffered a lot of head knocks during that period as well)

They had a Specialist in on the interview and she explained (with the help of scans etc) just how much he is suffering - and the extent of how he will be in 2,3,4 years time.

Was bloody tough to watch.

Was never a Centrals or Hawthorn fan but always loved Platts and the way he played (I think everyone had the same opinion - champion, gutsy player).

He absolutely loved playing for SA in the SOO games of the 80's and 90's

So sad to see.

 

[Osho]

He was on the TV about 6 months ago, going into detail about his declining memory & mood swings a a result of his numerous concussion's during his playing days (don't forget he played 5 seasons with Central Districts in the SANFL before going to Hawthorn and had suffered a lot of head knocks during that period as well)

They had a Specialist in on the interview and she explained (with the help of scans etc) just how much he is suffering - and the extent of how he will be in 2,3,4 years time.

Was bloody tough to watch.

Was never a Centrals or Hawthorn fan but always loved Platts and the way he played (I think everyone had the same opinion - champion, gutsy player).

He absolutely loved playing for SA in the SOO games of the 80's and 90's

So sad to see.

Yep, always in and under, much respected.

 

[Matrix10]

I don't know what the truth is, but it was said at the time that Bruns was kinghit by Matthews because he squirrel gripped Michael Tuck earlier in the game. It was a crazy game and a crazy aftermath. This may have been made up or exagerated by Hawthorn to try to make up some sort of defense for Matthews, or it might be true. But i remember at the time that this story/excuse was doing the rounds.

I remember watching the McKenna interview at the time. It was very awkward and way out of WOS usual style.

The reason Lethal lost the plot that day is because the Geelong ranga was having an affair with Lethals brother Kelvin Ms whilst playing at the Cattery

 

[Osho]

The reason Lethal lost the plot that day is because the Geelong ranga was having an affair with Lethals brother Kelvin whilst playing at the Cattery

That sounds like a story from the same rumour mill that produced the Matthews / Mrs Christian rumour years ago. I thought that mill went bankrupt, evidently not.

 

[Partridge]

as was Gazza's wont, at his best when flattening smaller guys, usually from behind... no courage in that, unlike the courage Gastev and others showed by playing the ball.

Total nonsense.

The two occasions Ablett ran through Gastev were exactly the same - he was leading out for the ball, Gastev dropped into the hole, and like most forwards then - he kept running and collected him. Pretty much like he did with Dipper in the 1989 Grand final (to absolutely zero outrage or complaint from every Hawthorn player nearby by the way). Bad luck for Gastev, but the near-universal view then was if you stood in the way of a leading forward you could expect some physical contact.

 

[King Tut]

Total nonsense.

The two occasions Ablett ran through Gastev were exactly the same - he was leading out for the ball, Gastev dropped into the hole, and like most forwards then - he kept running and collected him. Pretty much like he did with Dipper in the 1989 Grand final (to absolutely zero outrage or complaint from every Hawthorn player nearby by the way). Bad luck for Gastev, but the near-universal view then was if you stood in the way of a leading forward you could expect some physical contact.

I remember Gazza collecting big Alex Ischenko in the same manner when Ischenko was playing for North. He was standing in the hole and Gazza cleaned him up (to be fair he didn’t hit him anything like he did to Gastev and Dipper).

Actually it gets forgotten how physical Ablett was. He ran through Wayne Johnston and pretty much ended his career. He hurt blokes badly.

 

[Cyclops]

In Matthew’s autobiography when recalling the game, noted that an ugly pall had descended over Kardinia Park, in no small part as a result of the antics of Jacko. Jacko had in fact, completely lost the plot. Maththew’s added that the umpires had lost control of the game and he had remonstrated with them (something he rarely did) prior to king hitting Bruns.

Lying in his hospital bed, Bruns, for his part, was asked to comment on what he thought of Matthews and in reply he said ‘I think he’s the pits’. Reflecting on that comment Matthews observed that Bruns was a hypocrite, and it was common knowledge around the league that Bruns, himself was a little sniper. No love lost there.

As a side note, I wasn’t at the game, instead listening to it on the radio. So appalled were the commentators calling the game, and I can’t remember who they, were suggesting that the game be called off.

Matthews was a different beast to any other player at the time. We had thugs like Magro and Banks who cheerfully spotted opponents. Dipper and Brereton have been mentioned as freely swinging (as well as playing top notch footy).

Jacko was a weird clown, could play but had that "look at me" attitude, and threw his elbows theatrically. Definitely rough, maybe a thug.

Matthews was something else, really disliked and belted fellas so he could win. He was also notoriously selfish. At the time, as a neutral I'd say in the early 1980s Lethal was the worst thug in the league by a wide margin (taking into account Magro, Ditterich, Ablett, Rotten Ronny Andrews, and enforcers like Jim Edmund).

There was a sense he got away with it more (not sure he did in reality) and I think this conspiracy theory thinking was part if the groundswell against him.

If Lethal argued Bruns was on par with himself as a thug hes dreaming. Matthews was infamous.

I remember Gazza collecting big Alex Ischenko in the same manner when Ischenko was playing for North. He was standing in the hole and Gazza cleaned him up (to be fair he didn’t hit him anything like he did to Gastev and Dipper).

Actually it gets forgotten how physical Ablett was. He ran through Wayne Johnston and pretty much ended his career. He hurt blokes badly.

I think Abletts thuggery was excused because he was so visibly brilliant.

It was also variable, some days he was all about the ball: in the 89 GF he meted out retribution but didn't start anything. Other days, he'd put Gary Lyon to sleep off the ball because he was irritable. Then dobbed himself in? Wtf?

Against the Pies a couple of times he roughed up Pert fairly, no thuggery, and took heavy hits in return from Kelly Pert etc. You just never knew with God.

 

[JPetro83]

Is this happened today on the field.. a king hit behind the play i wonder what sanctions the player would get? on and off the field. Season ban? charges laid etc?
The Barry Hall king hit only got 7 weeks and that was 15yrs ago?

 

[Jane Doe]

Leigh has admitted there is a lot of things he is ashamed of when he played.

 

[wagstaff]

Robertson tells the story about that hit on Tim. Who was niggling him all day and finally he said to him you do that once more and I am going to deck you and the rest is history.

Incident occurred 20 minutes into the gane, hardly qualifies as "all day" even if Watson had been niggling him.