Review The Moderate (Apologist’s) Review of 2023

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Oct 7, 2005
4,023
9,307
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Are there other teams?
About 12 months ago Josh Dunkley was touring Alberton. He wanted to move to SA as his fiance lived here. The deal fell through, officially because we “couldn’t guarantee getting a deal done”. At almost exactly the same time, JHF requested a trade to Port Adelaide. Despite a much greater degree of difficulty, we got the deal done.

Make no mistake, 12 months ago we chose JHF over Dunkley. We chose the future over the present. 12 months on, the natural consequences of that choice played out. Two tougher, finals hardened midfields (one with Josh Dunkley) out muscled our young, agile and spectacular, burst out of stoppage midfield. Disappointing but no real surprise if you put yourself back 12 months.

This is the second time in the Hinkley era the club has invested in the future rather than take a sugar hit. 2018 saw Wingard, Polec, Pittard and others depart to get the draft hand we wanted. Two of that class got all-Australian jumpers this year.

That is why Ken got another deal- not because of a 13 game winning streak. And on one level, he should have got another deal. You ought be given a chance to reap what you have sown- whether the investments were your idea or not. All said and done, 2023 proved we are on track to shake the top of the tree over the next few years. Sure, questions remain but come October, 17 clubs will have similar questions to answer.

Having said all that, a 2 year deal should never have been agreed.

Those in charge have forgotten Port’s values and forgotten Port’s history. For years our most successful coach, John Cahill had no contract. Every year for many, he had a handshake agreement to coach the next year. Sure, new coaches need a period of time to show what they can achieve and would need some security to be able to recast the playing style. But Hinkley has gone past that. The fact that he is the longest serving coach to have never made a grand final in AFL history is the most compelling reason why a one year extension should have been the maximum allowed.

I suspect that the 2 year extension was for the benefit of the Board as much as for Ken. A year-by-year arrangement makes the Board more obviously accountable- each year they have to decide who is best to lead the club and they will get judged each year on that decision. A 2 year deal kicks that scrutiny down the road.

As the dust settles on a bitterly disappointing end to 2023, it is now time to shake up the Board. It is now more important than ever to have a football person on the Board who has the history and expectations which have always been at the core of the club in his bones. We don’t need and won’t get a ”sack Ken candidate“. We just need someone who understands that this is first and foremost a football club designed to win premierships and not a member club of an entertainment industry.

If it is Tredrea, he will have to moderate his stance. It is not time to throw the baby out with the bathwater- Cripps and Davies, for instance are doing a great job and ought to be backed. But his strength would be that he would make Ken very uncomfortable- as he should be. For me, it ought to be Ginever- he is more measured, gives credit where it is due but there is no mistaking that he is in tune with the club’s history and values and would make the tough decisions when required.

At the moment, there is nobody on the board you would trust to do that.
 
About 12 months ago Josh Dunkley was touring Alberton. He wanted to move to SA as his fiance lived here. The deal fell through, officially because we “couldn’t guarantee getting a deal done”. At almost exactly the same time, JHF requested a trade to Port Adelaide. Despite a much greater degree of difficulty, we got the deal done.

Make no mistake, 12 months ago we chose JHF over Dunkley. We chose the future over the present. 12 months on, the natural consequences of that choice played out. Two tougher, finals hardened midfields (one with Josh Dunkley) out muscled our young, agile and spectacular, burst out of stoppage midfield. Disappointing but no real surprise if you put yourself back 12 months.

This is the second time in the Hinkley era the club has invested in the future rather than take a sugar hit. 2018 saw Wingard, Polec, Pittard and others depart to get the draft hand we wanted. Two of that class got all-Australian jumpers this year.

That is why Ken got another deal- not because of a 13 game winning streak. And on one level, he should have got another deal. You ought be given a chance to reap what you have sown- whether the investments were your idea or not. All said and done, 2023 proved we are on track to shake the top of the tree over the next few years. Sure, questions remain but come October, 17 clubs will have similar questions to answer.

Having said all that, a 2 year deal should never have been agreed.

Those in charge have forgotten Port’s values and forgotten Port’s history. For years our most successful coach, John Cahill had no contract. Every year for many, he had a handshake agreement to coach the next year. Sure, new coaches need a period of time to show what they can achieve and would need some security to be able to recast the playing style. But Hinkley has gone past that. The fact that he is the longest serving coach to have never made a grand final in AFL history is the most compelling reason why a one year extension should have been the maximum allowed.

I suspect that the 2 year extension was for the benefit of the Board as much as for Ken. A year-by-year arrangement makes the Board more obviously accountable- each year they have to decide who is best to lead the club and they will get judged each year on that decision. A 2 year deal kicks that scrutiny down the road.

As the dust settles on a bitterly disappointing end to 2023, it is now time to shake up the Board. It is now more important than ever to have a football person on the Board who has the history and expectations which have always been at the core of the club in his bones. We don’t need and won’t get a ”sack Ken candidate“. We just need someone who understands that this is first and foremost a football club designed to win premierships and not a member club of an entertainment industry.

If it is Tredrea, he will have to moderate his stance. It is not time to throw the baby out with the bathwater- Cripps and Davies, for instance are doing a great job and ought to be backed. But his strength would be that he would make Ken very uncomfortable- as he should be. For me, it ought to be Ginever- he is more measured, gives credit where it is due but there is no mistaking that he is in tune with the club’s history and values and would make the tough decisions when required.

At the moment, there is nobody on the board you would trust to do that.

Think you will find it was graham from richmond who toured the facilities, besides that a balanced reasonable opinion.
 
shewho is correct, we were up to our eyeballs in chasing Dunkley. And Connor McKenna who also wound up at the Lions.
 

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My review:

We performed better than expected, which was nice, but when you have the opportunities to play and win finals, you have to take them.

Noone expected GWS to make finals. They might make a GF this week. We are left scratching our heads. Again.

All the good that happened during the season, the exciting play, the gritty wins, means little when you can't dig deep when it matters. Again.
 
About 12 months ago Josh Dunkley was touring Alberton. He wanted to move to SA as his fiance lived here. The deal fell through, officially because we “couldn’t guarantee getting a deal done”. At almost exactly the same time, JHF requested a trade to Port Adelaide. Despite a much greater degree of difficulty, we got the deal done.

Make no mistake, 12 months ago we chose JHF over Dunkley. We chose the future over the present. 12 months on, the natural consequences of that choice played out. Two tougher, finals hardened midfields (one with Josh Dunkley) out muscled our young, agile and spectacular, burst out of stoppage midfield. Disappointing but no real surprise if you put yourself back 12 months.

This is the second time in the Hinkley era the club has invested in the future rather than take a sugar hit. 2018 saw Wingard, Polec, Pittard and others depart to get the draft hand we wanted. Two of that class got all-Australian jumpers this year.

That is why Ken got another deal- not because of a 13 game winning streak. And on one level, he should have got another deal. You ought be given a chance to reap what you have sown- whether the investments were your idea or not. All said and done, 2023 proved we are on track to shake the top of the tree over the next few years. Sure, questions remain but come October, 17 clubs will have similar questions to answer.

Having said all that, a 2 year deal should never have been agreed.

Those in charge have forgotten Port’s values and forgotten Port’s history. For years our most successful coach, John Cahill had no contract. Every year for many, he had a handshake agreement to coach the next year. Sure, new coaches need a period of time to show what they can achieve and would need some security to be able to recast the playing style. But Hinkley has gone past that. The fact that he is the longest serving coach to have never made a grand final in AFL history is the most compelling reason why a one year extension should have been the maximum allowed.

I suspect that the 2 year extension was for the benefit of the Board as much as for Ken. A year-by-year arrangement makes the Board more obviously accountable- each year they have to decide who is best to lead the club and they will get judged each year on that decision. A 2 year deal kicks that scrutiny down the road.

As the dust settles on a bitterly disappointing end to 2023, it is now time to shake up the Board. It is now more important than ever to have a football person on the Board who has the history and expectations which have always been at the core of the club in his bones. We don’t need and won’t get a ”sack Ken candidate“. We just need someone who understands that this is first and foremost a football club designed to win premierships and not a member club of an entertainment industry.

If it is Tredrea, he will have to moderate his stance. It is not time to throw the baby out with the bathwater- Cripps and Davies, for instance are doing a great job and ought to be backed. But his strength would be that he would make Ken very uncomfortable- as he should be. For me, it ought to be Ginever- he is more measured, gives credit where it is due but there is no mistaking that he is in tune with the club’s history and values and would make the tough decisions when required.

At the moment, there is nobody on the board you would trust to do that.
I agree with a lot of this.

When we chose to pursure JHF over Dunkley we chose the future - a bloke that could grow in to the role rather than a "safe-looking" option. We took the player with the best chance to win us premierships rather than tread water which is the Port way.

When we chose to pursue Rozee and Butters over Wingard and Polec we also made a gutsy call to choose the future. Again with the option of forgoing immediate output for a chance at sustained success.

Our list management team gets Port Adelaide. They make the right decisions.

When we chose Hinkley over pursuing Kingsley, or McRae, or Voss, or Yze, or Hansen, or any number of other suitable candidates we did the exact opposite. We chose the "safe-looking" option, a bloke who excels at avoiding being the worst in the league, but is never going to have the tactical nous to actually deliver a premiership. We sacrificed the future in order to desperately avoid a bottom 4 finish we are scared of, and as a result none of the good list decisions we make even matter.

Our board is not Port Adelaide. They make terrible decisions.
 
Our board is not Port Adelaide. They make terrible decisions.

I wouldn't say they make terrible decisions. They make decisions that satisfies the AFL interests, not the members, not the fans and not the legends of the club.
 
As always, when you get bundled out like that, it's better to take some time to take stock and reflect rather than make snap judgements based on emotion.

1. Port Adelaide had the weakest defensive stocks of the top six teams.

Compare the following:

Collingwood - Moore, Murphy, Howe/Frampton - 1687 points conceded

Brisbane - Andrews, Payne, Lester - 1771 points conceded

Melbourne - May, Lever, Hibberd - 1660 points conceded

Carlton - Weitering, Kemp, McGovern - 1697 points conceded

GWS - Taylor, Himmelberg, Buckley - 1885 points conceded

What is the common denominator between all these players? They are all athletic and able to get up and down the ground.

Port - Aliir, McKenzie, Jonas/Bergman - 1906 points conceded

Jonas became such a liability through the season with his inability to track back that we sacrificed Bergman from a wing and put him down back - so what should have been a strength (a wingman that can act as a utility to push back and defend) became a weakness as we put guys like Wines and Boak into a wing position that they weren't suited to just to make the pieces fit.

2. Our biggest strength - midfield clearance dominance - became our biggest weakness in finals.

There is no substitute for experience. Again, compare the following:

Collingwood - Pendlebury (35), Sidebottom (32), Mitchell (30), Adams (30), Crisp (29), De Goey (27), J Daicos (24), N Daicos (20)

Brisbane - Zorko (34), Lyons (31), Neale (30), Dunkley (26), Ah Chee (25), Berry (25), McCluggage (25), Bailey (23)

Melbourne - Viney (29), Hunter (28), Harmes (27), Petracca (27), Langdon (27), Brayshaw (27), Clayton (26)

Carlton - Docherty (29), Cripps (28), Acres (27), Hewett (27), Cincotta (26), Kennedy (26), Cerra (23), Walsh (23)

GWS - Ward (33), Coniglio (29), Whitfield (29), Kelly (28), Perryman (24), Green (22), Callaghan (20)

vs

Port - Boak (35), Wines (28), Drew (24), Farrell (24), Rozee (23), Duursma (23), Butters (22), Bergman (21), Horne-Francis (20)

Port Adelaide's average age in the midfield is 24.4 - compared to Collingwood (28.4), Brisbane (27.4), Melbourne (27.3), Carlton (26.1) and GWS (26.4). When finals come around, it's the hardened, seasoned bodies that come to the fore. And without a decent defence to back them up, what was a strength in the regular season became a weakness due to the contested nature of do or die games.

Our midfield is a full two seasons behind the current preliminary finalists in terms of experience and match hardening. That's where the resilience to win finals comes from.

3. We rolled the dice with injured players because we had to.

In a perfect world, we roll into September with a fully fit Lycett, Dixon, McKenzie, Marshall and an in-form Finlayson. The fact that we preferred to play a hobbled Marshall, a crocked Dixon and a green Lord over Finlayson says a lot about his performance - and the performance of the forward line - going into finals. And we played McKenzie because Jonas and Clurey were injured and our Magpies defenders were complete trash for most of the year.

4. We bring in Ratugolea, Zerk-Thatcher, Sweet (and Soldo if we can) and go around again.

One of the main aspects of complementary football is the idea that the forward line will function a lot better when they don't have the added pressure of having to score to compensate for the fact that the defence is trash. We don't need Esava, Brandon and Jordan/Ivan to be elite players - they just need to be better than what we currently have so that guys like Bergman and Burton can do what we actually recruited them for and not have to plug holes in a leaky defence all the time.

5. We found some decent players on our list in Lord and Williams. And Byrne-Jones reinvented himself as a pretty decent pressure forward.

So the season wasn't a complete wash.
 
As always, when you get bundled out like that, it's better to take some time to take stock and reflect rather than make snap judgements based on emotion.

1. Port Adelaide had the weakest defensive stocks of the top six teams.

Compare the following:

Collingwood - Moore, Murphy, Howe/Frampton - 1687 points conceded

Brisbane - Andrews, Payne, Lester - 1771 points conceded

Melbourne - May, Lever, Hibberd - 1660 points conceded

Carlton - Weitering, Kemp, McGovern - 1697 points conceded

GWS - Taylor, Himmelberg, Buckley - 1885 points conceded

What is the common denominator between all these players? They are all athletic and able to get up and down the ground.

Port - Aliir, McKenzie, Jonas/Bergman - 1906 points conceded

Jonas became such a liability through the season with his inability to track back that we sacrificed Bergman from a wing and put him down back - so what should have been a strength (a wingman that can act as a utility to push back and defend) became a weakness as we put guys like Wines and Boak into a wing position that they weren't suited to just to make the pieces fit.

2. Our biggest strength - midfield clearance dominance - became our biggest weakness in finals.

There is no substitute for experience. Again, compare the following:

Collingwood - Pendlebury (35), Sidebottom (32), Mitchell (30), Adams (30), Crisp (29), De Goey (27), J Daicos (24), N Daicos (20)

Brisbane - Zorko (34), Lyons (31), Neale (30), Dunkley (26), Ah Chee (25), Berry (25), McCluggage (25), Bailey (23)

Melbourne - Viney (29), Hunter (28), Harmes (27), Petracca (27), Langdon (27), Brayshaw (27), Clayton (26)

Carlton - Docherty (29), Cripps (28), Acres (27), Hewett (27), Cincotta (26), Kennedy (26), Cerra (23), Walsh (23)

GWS - Ward (33), Coniglio (29), Whitfield (29), Kelly (28), Perryman (24), Green (22), Callaghan (20)

vs

Port - Boak (35), Wines (28), Drew (24), Farrell (24), Rozee (23), Duursma (23), Butters (22), Bergman (21), Horne-Francis (20)

Port Adelaide's average age in the midfield is 24.4 - compared to Collingwood (28.4), Brisbane (27.4), Melbourne (27.3), Carlton (26.1) and GWS (26.4). When finals come around, it's the hardened, seasoned bodies that come to the fore. And without a decent defence to back them up, what was a strength in the regular season became a weakness due to the contested nature of do or die games.

Our midfield is a full two seasons behind the current preliminary finalists in terms of experience and match hardening. That's where the resilience to win finals comes from.

3. We rolled the dice with injured players because we had to.

In a perfect world, we roll into September with a fully fit Lycett, Dixon, McKenzie, Marshall and an in-form Finlayson. The fact that we preferred to play a hobbled Marshall, a crocked Dixon and a green Lord over Finlayson says a lot about his performance - and the performance of the forward line - going into finals. And we played McKenzie because Jonas and Clurey were injured and our Magpies defenders were complete trash for most of the year.

4. We bring in Ratugolea, Zerk-Thatcher, Sweet (and Soldo if we can) and go around again.

One of the main aspects of complementary football is the idea that the forward line will function a lot better when they don't have the added pressure of having to score to compensate for the fact that the defence is trash. We don't need Esava, Brandon and Jordan/Ivan to be elite players - they just need to be better than what we currently have so that guys like Bergman and Burton can do what we actually recruited them for and not have to plug holes in a leaky defence all the time.

5. We found some decent players on our list in Lord and Williams. And Byrne-Jones reinvented himself as a pretty decent pressure forward.

So the season wasn't a complete wash.
Rooch, ken, lil ken or whoever you are, this schtick is getting old and we've stopped buying it.
Ken's a fraud and can * off out my club.
How many more games did we win than Adelaide or GWS over the season and what happened when the pressure was on? And darcy reinvented himself as a "pretty decent pressure forward"... please.
 
As always, when you get bundled out like that, it's better to take some time to take stock and reflect rather than make snap judgements based on emotion.

1. Port Adelaide had the weakest defensive stocks of the top six teams.

Compare the following:

Collingwood - Moore, Murphy, Howe/Frampton - 1687 points conceded

Brisbane - Andrews, Payne, Lester - 1771 points conceded

Melbourne - May, Lever, Hibberd - 1660 points conceded

Carlton - Weitering, Kemp, McGovern - 1697 points conceded

GWS - Taylor, Himmelberg, Buckley - 1885 points conceded

What is the common denominator between all these players? They are all athletic and able to get up and down the ground.

Port - Aliir, McKenzie, Jonas/Bergman - 1906 points conceded

Jonas became such a liability through the season with his inability to track back that we sacrificed Bergman from a wing and put him down back - so what should have been a strength (a wingman that can act as a utility to push back and defend) became a weakness as we put guys like Wines and Boak into a wing position that they weren't suited to just to make the pieces fit.

2. Our biggest strength - midfield clearance dominance - became our biggest weakness in finals.

There is no substitute for experience. Again, compare the following:

Collingwood - Pendlebury (35), Sidebottom (32), Mitchell (30), Adams (30), Crisp (29), De Goey (27), J Daicos (24), N Daicos (20)

Brisbane - Zorko (34), Lyons (31), Neale (30), Dunkley (26), Ah Chee (25), Berry (25), McCluggage (25), Bailey (23)

Melbourne - Viney (29), Hunter (28), Harmes (27), Petracca (27), Langdon (27), Brayshaw (27), Clayton (26)

Carlton - Docherty (29), Cripps (28), Acres (27), Hewett (27), Cincotta (26), Kennedy (26), Cerra (23), Walsh (23)

GWS - Ward (33), Coniglio (29), Whitfield (29), Kelly (28), Perryman (24), Green (22), Callaghan (20)

vs

Port - Boak (35), Wines (28), Drew (24), Farrell (24), Rozee (23), Duursma (23), Butters (22), Bergman (21), Horne-Francis (20)

Port Adelaide's average age in the midfield is 24.4 - compared to Collingwood (28.4), Brisbane (27.4), Melbourne (27.3), Carlton (26.1) and GWS (26.4). When finals come around, it's the hardened, seasoned bodies that come to the fore. And without a decent defence to back them up, what was a strength in the regular season became a weakness due to the contested nature of do or die games.

Our midfield is a full two seasons behind the current preliminary finalists in terms of experience and match hardening. That's where the resilience to win finals comes from.

3. We rolled the dice with injured players because we had to.

In a perfect world, we roll into September with a fully fit Lycett, Dixon, McKenzie, Marshall and an in-form Finlayson. The fact that we preferred to play a hobbled Marshall, a crocked Dixon and a green Lord over Finlayson says a lot about his performance - and the performance of the forward line - going into finals. And we played McKenzie because Jonas and Clurey were injured and our Magpies defenders were complete trash for most of the year.

4. We bring in Ratugolea, Zerk-Thatcher, Sweet (and Soldo if we can) and go around again.

One of the main aspects of complementary football is the idea that the forward line will function a lot better when they don't have the added pressure of having to score to compensate for the fact that the defence is trash. We don't need Esava, Brandon and Jordan/Ivan to be elite players - they just need to be better than what we currently have so that guys like Bergman and Burton can do what we actually recruited them for and not have to plug holes in a leaky defence all the time.

5. We found some decent players on our list in Lord and Williams. And Byrne-Jones reinvented himself as a pretty decent pressure forward.

So the season wasn't a complete wash.
shocked philip j fry GIF
 
As always, when you get bundled out like that, it's better to take some time to take stock and reflect rather than make snap judgements based on emotion.

1. Port Adelaide had the weakest defensive stocks of the top six teams.

Compare the following:

Collingwood - Moore, Murphy, Howe/Frampton - 1687 points conceded

Brisbane - Andrews, Payne, Lester - 1771 points conceded

Melbourne - May, Lever, Hibberd - 1660 points conceded

Carlton - Weitering, Kemp, McGovern - 1697 points conceded

GWS - Taylor, Himmelberg, Buckley - 1885 points conceded

What is the common denominator between all these players? They are all athletic and able to get up and down the ground.

Port - Aliir, McKenzie, Jonas/Bergman - 1906 points conceded

Jonas became such a liability through the season with his inability to track back that we sacrificed Bergman from a wing and put him down back - so what should have been a strength (a wingman that can act as a utility to push back and defend) became a weakness as we put guys like Wines and Boak into a wing position that they weren't suited to just to make the pieces fit.

2. Our biggest strength - midfield clearance dominance - became our biggest weakness in finals.

There is no substitute for experience. Again, compare the following:

Collingwood - Pendlebury (35), Sidebottom (32), Mitchell (30), Adams (30), Crisp (29), De Goey (27), J Daicos (24), N Daicos (20)

Brisbane - Zorko (34), Lyons (31), Neale (30), Dunkley (26), Ah Chee (25), Berry (25), McCluggage (25), Bailey (23)

Melbourne - Viney (29), Hunter (28), Harmes (27), Petracca (27), Langdon (27), Brayshaw (27), Clayton (26)

Carlton - Docherty (29), Cripps (28), Acres (27), Hewett (27), Cincotta (26), Kennedy (26), Cerra (23), Walsh (23)

GWS - Ward (33), Coniglio (29), Whitfield (29), Kelly (28), Perryman (24), Green (22), Callaghan (20)

vs

Port - Boak (35), Wines (28), Drew (24), Farrell (24), Rozee (23), Duursma (23), Butters (22), Bergman (21), Horne-Francis (20)

Port Adelaide's average age in the midfield is 24.4 - compared to Collingwood (28.4), Brisbane (27.4), Melbourne (27.3), Carlton (26.1) and GWS (26.4). When finals come around, it's the hardened, seasoned bodies that come to the fore. And without a decent defence to back them up, what was a strength in the regular season became a weakness due to the contested nature of do or die games.

Our midfield is a full two seasons behind the current preliminary finalists in terms of experience and match hardening. That's where the resilience to win finals comes from.

3. We rolled the dice with injured players because we had to.

In a perfect world, we roll into September with a fully fit Lycett, Dixon, McKenzie, Marshall and an in-form Finlayson. The fact that we preferred to play a hobbled Marshall, a crocked Dixon and a green Lord over Finlayson says a lot about his performance - and the performance of the forward line - going into finals. And we played McKenzie because Jonas and Clurey were injured and our Magpies defenders were complete trash for most of the year.

4. We bring in Ratugolea, Zerk-Thatcher, Sweet (and Soldo if we can) and go around again.

One of the main aspects of complementary football is the idea that the forward line will function a lot better when they don't have the added pressure of having to score to compensate for the fact that the defence is trash. We don't need Esava, Brandon and Jordan/Ivan to be elite players - they just need to be better than what we currently have so that guys like Bergman and Burton can do what we actually recruited them for and not have to plug holes in a leaky defence all the time.

5. We found some decent players on our list in Lord and Williams. And Byrne-Jones reinvented himself as a pretty decent pressure forward.

So the season wasn't a complete wash.

It is not enough to merely identify and describe the reasons we fell short. If Hinkley and Koch had been here for two to four seasons, perhaps we could still lay the blame for our shortcomings at the feet of a previous administration.

They've been here for 11 years.
They must be held responsible.
They are the reason we fell short.
They are the reason we will continue to fall short.

We chose the future over the present.

The club chose Ken Hinkley. We have no future.
 

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It is not enough to merely identify and describe the reasons we fell short. If Hinkley and Koch had been here for two to four seasons, perhaps we could still lay the blame for our shortcomings at the feet of a previous administration.

They've been here for 11 years.
They must be held responsible.
They are the reason we fell short.
They are the reason we will continue to fall short.




The club chose Ken Hinkley. We have no future.
This would be true if at any point we had the option to draft a decent key defender and instead opted for guys like Bonner.

Go through our draft history and find me the key defenders we could have gotten with our draft picks.

Melbourne gave up two first round picks + Hogan to get Lever and May to their club. Darcy Moore was a f/s pick. Harris Andrews was an academy player, as was Himmelberg.

We tried getting Ratugolea last year but he was contracted - it’s not like the club didn’t know our key position stocks weren’t a problem, it’s just that getting Horne-Francis was a priority.

I want to know what people would have done different. Speaking of Geelong, I bet if you asked Geoff Parker if De Koning was still on the board and the Cats didn’t take him, we would have been all over him like white on rice. Our targeting of Ratugolea is in some measure a form of payback for them cutting our lunch.

In computing and electronics, there is a terminology called race condition - it’s when you are executing multiple circuits/code at once. This is how a club wins a flag - so many things have to go right at the same time. However, if something goes wrong in one of the circuits/modules - too many injuries, no key defenders left, players out of form, inexperience - it can and will crash the system with a bug.

We are no longer in build mode. We’ve got the system - regardless of what King says. We are in debugging mode. Hence why we are deliberately targeting key defenders and rucks in trades.
 
As always, when you get bundled out like that, it's better to take some time to take stock and reflect rather than make snap judgements based on emotion.

1. Port Adelaide had the weakest defensive stocks of the top six teams.

Compare the following:

Collingwood - Moore, Murphy, Howe/Frampton - 1687 points conceded

Brisbane - Andrews, Payne, Lester - 1771 points conceded

Melbourne - May, Lever, Hibberd - 1660 points conceded

Carlton - Weitering, Kemp, McGovern - 1697 points conceded

GWS - Taylor, Himmelberg, Buckley - 1885 points conceded

What is the common denominator between all these players? They are all athletic and able to get up and down the ground.

Port - Aliir, McKenzie, Jonas/Bergman - 1906 points conceded

Jonas became such a liability through the season with his inability to track back that we sacrificed Bergman from a wing and put him down back - so what should have been a strength (a wingman that can act as a utility to push back and defend) became a weakness as we put guys like Wines and Boak into a wing position that they weren't suited to just to make the pieces fit.

2. Our biggest strength - midfield clearance dominance - became our biggest weakness in finals.

There is no substitute for experience. Again, compare the following:

Collingwood - Pendlebury (35), Sidebottom (32), Mitchell (30), Adams (30), Crisp (29), De Goey (27), J Daicos (24), N Daicos (20)

Brisbane - Zorko (34), Lyons (31), Neale (30), Dunkley (26), Ah Chee (25), Berry (25), McCluggage (25), Bailey (23)

Melbourne - Viney (29), Hunter (28), Harmes (27), Petracca (27), Langdon (27), Brayshaw (27), Clayton (26)

Carlton - Docherty (29), Cripps (28), Acres (27), Hewett (27), Cincotta (26), Kennedy (26), Cerra (23), Walsh (23)

GWS - Ward (33), Coniglio (29), Whitfield (29), Kelly (28), Perryman (24), Green (22), Callaghan (20)

vs

Port - Boak (35), Wines (28), Drew (24), Farrell (24), Rozee (23), Duursma (23), Butters (22), Bergman (21), Horne-Francis (20)

Port Adelaide's average age in the midfield is 24.4 - compared to Collingwood (28.4), Brisbane (27.4), Melbourne (27.3), Carlton (26.1) and GWS (26.4). When finals come around, it's the hardened, seasoned bodies that come to the fore. And without a decent defence to back them up, what was a strength in the regular season became a weakness due to the contested nature of do or die games.

Our midfield is a full two seasons behind the current preliminary finalists in terms of experience and match hardening. That's where the resilience to win finals comes from.

3. We rolled the dice with injured players because we had to.

In a perfect world, we roll into September with a fully fit Lycett, Dixon, McKenzie, Marshall and an in-form Finlayson. The fact that we preferred to play a hobbled Marshall, a crocked Dixon and a green Lord over Finlayson says a lot about his performance - and the performance of the forward line - going into finals. And we played McKenzie because Jonas and Clurey were injured and our Magpies defenders were complete trash for most of the year.

4. We bring in Ratugolea, Zerk-Thatcher, Sweet (and Soldo if we can) and go around again.

One of the main aspects of complementary football is the idea that the forward line will function a lot better when they don't have the added pressure of having to score to compensate for the fact that the defence is trash. We don't need Esava, Brandon and Jordan/Ivan to be elite players - they just need to be better than what we currently have so that guys like Bergman and Burton can do what we actually recruited them for and not have to plug holes in a leaky defence all the time.

5. We found some decent players on our list in Lord and Williams. And Byrne-Jones reinvented himself as a pretty decent pressure forward.

So the season wasn't a complete wash.
Agree strongly with points 4 and 5.

Actually think you could have gone further with 5 - there were several breakout seasons, and on 4 the Rat/ZT/Sweet recruits look very, very good to me no matter what anybody says about their "name recognition".

Point 2 is an excuse. Tom Green was the best performing midfielder. He's 22. We've repeatedly failed to show up with players of all different ages under the past 9 years. The reality is that:
#1. Our mids were prepared poorly for the game - you could see it even in the comments that came out about "last time here they got beat by 50", which meant they just expected it to happen. I won't even go in to the ridiculousness that was Oppenheimer. Our coach let them down.
#2. We failed to develop/select a ruckman that could give them first use. We let Ladhams go, failed to give Hayes games, didn't give Visentini enough of a stretch, let Frampton go, and then it took us almost the first half to actually stick Dixon in there. Its just poor coaching. From 5 minutes in to the game it was clear that we needed to send Dixon in there as first ruck, but arrogance stopped the move from being made til it was too late. Our coach let them down.
#3. We didn't shuffle the magnets. We had so many options, so many blokes in that side that could have changed the course of the midfield and given those blokes in there a chance to get their confidence back. Send Rozee up forward and see if he can kick a goal. Send Pep in to the midfield and let him run through people. Send Burton or Houston in to a centre bounce, or get Wines more inside. Just do something. Again, the coach let them down.

Points 1 & 3 could be somewhat correct. But we had to roll with injured players because of poor player management throughout the season. Good sides base their seasons around peaking in September. We based our season around banking wins by July. We didn't experiment enough or rest players enough throughout the season. Then to compound everything, we used our mid-season draft pick rather than filling one of these massive holes, to pick up a small midfielder, and then when he actually performed we still didn't play him. This is on Ken to an extent, but its more on our administration. The August deadline was nonsensical and the main cause of this - we could all see this situation eventuating months out.

Which all leads us to point 6...

6. Port Adelaide had the weakest coach of the top 8 teams, yet has committed to another contract of 2 years.

You can't just ignore the obvious at this point.
 
Go through our draft history and find me the key defenders we could have gotten with our draft picks.

Melbourne gave up two first round picks + Hogan to get Lever and May to their club. Darcy Moore was a f/s pick. Harris Andrews was an academy player, as was Himmelberg.

We tried getting Ratugolea last year but he was contracted - it’s not like the club didn’t know our key position stocks weren’t a problem, it’s just that getting Horne-Francis was a priority.

I want to know what people would have done different. Speaking of Geelong, I bet if you asked Geoff Parker if De Koning was still on the board and the Cats didn’t take him, we would have been all over him like white on rice. Our targeting of Ratugolea is in some measure a form of payback for them cutting our lunch.
This would be true if at any point we had the option to draft a decent key defender and instead opted for guys like Bonner.

Go through our draft history and find me the key defenders we could have gotten with our draft picks.

Melbourne gave up two first round picks + Hogan to get Lever and May to their club. Darcy Moore was a f/s pick. Harris Andrews was an academy player, as was Himmelberg.

We tried getting Ratugolea last year but he was contracted - it’s not like the club didn’t know our key position stocks weren’t a problem, it’s just that getting Horne-Francis was a priority.

I want to know what people would have done different. Speaking of Geelong, I bet if you asked Geoff Parker if De Koning was still on the board and the Cats didn’t take him, we would have been all over him like white on rice. Our targeting of Ratugolea is in some measure a form of payback for them cutting our lunch.

In computing and electronics, there is a terminology called race condition - it’s when you are executing multiple circuits/code at once. This is how a club wins a flag - so many things have to go right at the same time. However, if something goes wrong in one of the circuits/modules - too many injuries, no key defenders left, players out of form, inexperience - it can and will crash the system with a bug.

We are no longer in build mode. We’ve got the system - regardless of what King says. We are in debugging mode. Hence why we are deliberately targeting key defenders and rucks in trades.
SDK was on the board and we didn’t take him, twice. Bergman at 14 and Mitch at 18 - SDK went 19.
 
As always, when you get bundled out like that, it's better to take some time to take stock and reflect rather than make snap judgements based on emotion.

1. Port Adelaide had the weakest defensive stocks of the top six teams.

Compare the following:

Collingwood - Moore, Murphy, Howe/Frampton - 1687 points conceded

Brisbane - Andrews, Payne, Lester - 1771 points conceded

Melbourne - May, Lever, Hibberd - 1660 points conceded

Carlton - Weitering, Kemp, McGovern - 1697 points conceded

GWS - Taylor, Himmelberg, Buckley - 1885 points conceded

What is the common denominator between all these players? They are all athletic and able to get up and down the ground.

Port - Aliir, McKenzie, Jonas/Bergman - 1906 points conceded

Jonas became such a liability through the season with his inability to track back that we sacrificed Bergman from a wing and put him down back - so what should have been a strength (a wingman that can act as a utility to push back and defend) became a weakness as we put guys like Wines and Boak into a wing position that they weren't suited to just to make the pieces fit.

2. Our biggest strength - midfield clearance dominance - became our biggest weakness in finals.

There is no substitute for experience. Again, compare the following:

Collingwood - Pendlebury (35), Sidebottom (32), Mitchell (30), Adams (30), Crisp (29), De Goey (27), J Daicos (24), N Daicos (20)

Brisbane - Zorko (34), Lyons (31), Neale (30), Dunkley (26), Ah Chee (25), Berry (25), McCluggage (25), Bailey (23)

Melbourne - Viney (29), Hunter (28), Harmes (27), Petracca (27), Langdon (27), Brayshaw (27), Clayton (26)

Carlton - Docherty (29), Cripps (28), Acres (27), Hewett (27), Cincotta (26), Kennedy (26), Cerra (23), Walsh (23)

GWS - Ward (33), Coniglio (29), Whitfield (29), Kelly (28), Perryman (24), Green (22), Callaghan (20)

vs

Port - Boak (35), Wines (28), Drew (24), Farrell (24), Rozee (23), Duursma (23), Butters (22), Bergman (21), Horne-Francis (20)

Port Adelaide's average age in the midfield is 24.4 - compared to Collingwood (28.4), Brisbane (27.4), Melbourne (27.3), Carlton (26.1) and GWS (26.4). When finals come around, it's the hardened, seasoned bodies that come to the fore. And without a decent defence to back them up, what was a strength in the regular season became a weakness due to the contested nature of do or die games.

Our midfield is a full two seasons behind the current preliminary finalists in terms of experience and match hardening. That's where the resilience to win finals comes from.

3. We rolled the dice with injured players because we had to.

In a perfect world, we roll into September with a fully fit Lycett, Dixon, McKenzie, Marshall and an in-form Finlayson. The fact that we preferred to play a hobbled Marshall, a crocked Dixon and a green Lord over Finlayson says a lot about his performance - and the performance of the forward line - going into finals. And we played McKenzie because Jonas and Clurey were injured and our Magpies defenders were complete trash for most of the year.

4. We bring in Ratugolea, Zerk-Thatcher, Sweet (and Soldo if we can) and go around again.

One of the main aspects of complementary football is the idea that the forward line will function a lot better when they don't have the added pressure of having to score to compensate for the fact that the defence is trash. We don't need Esava, Brandon and Jordan/Ivan to be elite players - they just need to be better than what we currently have so that guys like Bergman and Burton can do what we actually recruited them for and not have to plug holes in a leaky defence all the time.

5. We found some decent players on our list in Lord and Williams. And Byrne-Jones reinvented himself as a pretty decent pressure forward.

So the season wasn't a complete wash.
Oh god. After 11 years of your analysis just admit you're wrong. You've tried and tried to sell it but it's always wrong.

You don't factor in that Hinkley folds under pressure in the finals. He's the X-Factor you can't factor into your equations. He admitted he can't handle finals pressure two weeks before our doomed 2023 finals campaign by saying finals are scary. No matter what players he's had he will bungle it. And he's had elite players at the club and squandered it. Robbie Gray, Wingard 2013-15, All-Australian Paddy Ryder and others he completely ballsed up. So while he's there the club won't win a Premiership or make a GF. 11 years of evidence proves it, not your endless theories.

Davies and Cripps could give Hinkley the best list ever assembled and he'd squander it.

We've been down this road of bringing in players via trade. Ryder, Dixon, Watts, Rockliff, Motlop and others have all come and gone and no GF appearance or Premiership.

He's a black hole of a coach. It as David King said Kenny Average. That's who he is and what he always will be.

All of that doesn't even factor in the Koch and Richardson problem which is bigger than the Hinkley issue.
 
Top 6 was an interesting line to draw imo. Could be that Sydney and St Kilda are of a similar age to us but had way better scores against.
 
As always, when you get bundled out like that, it's better to take some time to take stock and reflect rather than make snap judgements based on emotion.

1. Port Adelaide had the weakest defensive stocks of the top six teams.

Compare the following:

Collingwood - Moore, Murphy, Howe/Frampton - 1687 points conceded

Brisbane - Andrews, Payne, Lester - 1771 points conceded

Melbourne - May, Lever, Hibberd - 1660 points conceded

Carlton - Weitering, Kemp, McGovern - 1697 points conceded

GWS - Taylor, Himmelberg, Buckley - 1885 points conceded

What is the common denominator between all these players? They are all athletic and able to get up and down the ground.

Port - Aliir, McKenzie, Jonas/Bergman - 1906 points conceded

Jonas became such a liability through the season with his inability to track back that we sacrificed Bergman from a wing and put him down back - so what should have been a strength (a wingman that can act as a utility to push back and defend) became a weakness as we put guys like Wines and Boak into a wing position that they weren't suited to just to make the pieces fit.

2. Our biggest strength - midfield clearance dominance - became our biggest weakness in finals.

There is no substitute for experience. Again, compare the following:

Collingwood - Pendlebury (35), Sidebottom (32), Mitchell (30), Adams (30), Crisp (29), De Goey (27), J Daicos (24), N Daicos (20)

Brisbane - Zorko (34), Lyons (31), Neale (30), Dunkley (26), Ah Chee (25), Berry (25), McCluggage (25), Bailey (23)

Melbourne - Viney (29), Hunter (28), Harmes (27), Petracca (27), Langdon (27), Brayshaw (27), Clayton (26)

Carlton - Docherty (29), Cripps (28), Acres (27), Hewett (27), Cincotta (26), Kennedy (26), Cerra (23), Walsh (23)

GWS - Ward (33), Coniglio (29), Whitfield (29), Kelly (28), Perryman (24), Green (22), Callaghan (20)

vs

Port - Boak (35), Wines (28), Drew (24), Farrell (24), Rozee (23), Duursma (23), Butters (22), Bergman (21), Horne-Francis (20)

Port Adelaide's average age in the midfield is 24.4 - compared to Collingwood (28.4), Brisbane (27.4), Melbourne (27.3), Carlton (26.1) and GWS (26.4). When finals come around, it's the hardened, seasoned bodies that come to the fore. And without a decent defence to back them up, what was a strength in the regular season became a weakness due to the contested nature of do or die games.

Our midfield is a full two seasons behind the current preliminary finalists in terms of experience and match hardening. That's where the resilience to win finals comes from.

3. We rolled the dice with injured players because we had to.

In a perfect world, we roll into September with a fully fit Lycett, Dixon, McKenzie, Marshall and an in-form Finlayson. The fact that we preferred to play a hobbled Marshall, a crocked Dixon and a green Lord over Finlayson says a lot about his performance - and the performance of the forward line - going into finals. And we played McKenzie because Jonas and Clurey were injured and our Magpies defenders were complete trash for most of the year.

4. We bring in Ratugolea, Zerk-Thatcher, Sweet (and Soldo if we can) and go around again.

One of the main aspects of complementary football is the idea that the forward line will function a lot better when they don't have the added pressure of having to score to compensate for the fact that the defence is trash. We don't need Esava, Brandon and Jordan/Ivan to be elite players - they just need to be better than what we currently have so that guys like Bergman and Burton can do what we actually recruited them for and not have to plug holes in a leaky defence all the time.

5. We found some decent players on our list in Lord and Williams. And Byrne-Jones reinvented himself as a pretty decent pressure forward.

So the season wasn't a complete wash.

rkiEVN-IJYUuqq6YizTruUlSAMw=.gif


This would be true if at any point we had the option to draft a decent key defender and instead opted for guys like Bonner.

Go through our draft history and find me the key defenders we could have gotten with our draft picks.

Melbourne gave up two first round picks + Hogan to get Lever and May to their club. Darcy Moore was a f/s pick. Harris Andrews was an academy player, as was Himmelberg.

We tried getting Ratugolea last year but he was contracted - it’s not like the club didn’t know our key position stocks weren’t a problem, it’s just that getting Horne-Francis was a priority.

I want to know what people would have done different. Speaking of Geelong, I bet if you asked Geoff Parker if De Koning was still on the board and the Cats didn’t take him, we would have been all over him like white on rice. Our targeting of Ratugolea is in some measure a form of payback for them cutting our lunch.

In computing and electronics, there is a terminology called race condition - it’s when you are executing multiple circuits/code at once. This is how a club wins a flag - so many things have to go right at the same time. However, if something goes wrong in one of the circuits/modules - too many injuries, no key defenders left, players out of form, inexperience - it can and will crash the system with a bug.

We are no longer in build mode. We’ve got the system - regardless of what King says. We are in debugging mode. Hence why we are deliberately targeting key defenders and rucks in trades.

d0P9L4v1Ck-fZBZj9l6HvcASFqg=.gif
 
Worthy attempt but disagree with much of it.

Bringing Lord in and persevering needed to happen with Hayes and possibly Paisini, on multiple time frames.

1) that "taking the risk on development" per your 2018 analogy
2) reducing 2023 load on Lycett, Dixon and Finny may have seen those three in better shape/a better place at finals time.

Tried it half-heartedly with Hayes, won games carrying Teakle but still had to wear down Finny and Dixon in ruck. Made a call Pasini wasn't ready, paid a price when both Jonas and McKenzie succumbed.

Ollie's mixed form? You decide Jackson isn't ready but won't play Mead in the only role he knows. Risk/return/timeframe(s).

Every coach bar the one managing bloody Geelong's aged care facility has to balance their investments every year. At some point whatever risk profile you take things have to pay off. "Geelong's Geriatrics" finally got another shiny bookend for Scott. We're handing out coaching contract extensions for Ken's third attempt at building a rickety bookshelf. In terms of a list.

If Ken deserved an extension because JHF got over the line and showed a lot for the future... <I'll-be-here-forever.jpg>. That two of our three key position areas are a shambling mix of imminent retirements and eternal unreadiness while our midfield is up and coming but still WIP is on Ken's choices too. Week to week as well as ten years of trade week "missing piece" strategic choices.

Oh - and no one can "shake up the board" before getting AFL House to agree fundamental change at the club. How many times does this need to be repeated? Tredders is a horse with no cart.

So if you want to moderately apologise for 2023, start by taking Ken out of the equation - just as we did moderately from R3 - and extract some positive digits out of the arseh*le of a season finish:

  • showed AFL House and their Port board of directors the world won't end if Ken plays some kind of moderated role
  • Lord, Bergman, JHF, hell even Hayes coming along in spite of things
  • spending most of the season higher on the table than most expected, starting R3...
  • what else is there??

Incredibly disappointingly finish, year scrapes in as a fail despite our "bigger than usual" minor round tease :drunk: Ironically one more minor round win our banged up unbalanced side gets to play and IMO probably lose that QF to Brisbane at AO, which objectively would make it a clearer fail :drunk: We paper over cracks of our own making and scraped a few close minor round games, even dropping a couple more still might have finished 4th :drunk: After 10 years Ken gets no pass mark out of any of that. Seen it all before.
 
Go through our draft history and find me the key defenders we could have gotten with our draft picks.

The 2017 Draft alone — the one Davies deemed weak and largely traded out of:

• Pick 12: Previously traded for 2016 picks
• Pick 25: Noah Balta
• Pick 28: Sam Taylor
• Pick 31: Traded for Jack Watts
• Pick 33: Tom McCartin
• Pick 34: Acquired for Impey/Traded for 2018 2RP
• Pick 37: Harrison Petty (local)
• Pick 39: Nathan Murphy
• Pick 42: Charlie Ballard (local)
• Pick 47: Sam Hayes
• Pick 51: Kane Farrell
• Pick 54: Jack Payne*
• Pick 58: Jake Patmore
Pick 60: Joel Garner
Pick 61: Dom Barry
• Pick 66: Brandon Zerk-Thatcher (local)

You can say ‘hindsight’s 20/20’ and give them a situational pass for whatever positives the preferred alternatives have or might’ve given us, but a GM and his list management team live and die by decisions like this.

There was an undervalued gold mine here and we said, “no thankyou”, instead preferring a clutch of speculative tweener and recycled garbage that would’ve made Choco and Alan Stewart blush.

The fact we’re now attempting to prise BZT from Dodoro amidst his curtain call is the icing on the cake.
 
The 2017 Draft alone — the one Davies deemed weak and largely traded out of:

• Pick 12: Previously traded for 2016 picks
• Pick 25: Noah Balta
• Pick 28: Sam Taylor
• Pick 31: Traded for Jack Watts
• Pick 33: Tom McCartin
• Pick 34: Acquired for Impey/Traded for 2018 2RP
• Pick 37: Harrison Petty (local)
• Pick 39: Nathan Murphy
• Pick 42: Charlie Ballard (local)
• Pick 47: Sam Hayes
• Pick 51: Kane Farrell
• Pick 54: Jack Payne*
• Pick 58: Jake Patmore
Pick 60: Joel Garner
Pick 61: Dom Barry
• Pick 66: Brandon Zerk-Thatcher (local)

You can say ‘hindsight’s 20/20’ and give them a situational pass for whatever positives the preferred alternatives have or might’ve given us, but a GM and his list management team live and die by decisions like this.

There was an undervalued gold mine here and we said, “no thankyou”, instead preferring a clutch of speculative tweener and recycled garbage that would’ve made Choco and Alan Stewart blush.

The fact we’re now attempting to prise BZT from Dodoro amidst his curtain call is the icing on the cake.
Our possible picks in 2017 that we gave up were 12 and 31. In 2016 we made a trade with what ultimately became pick 12 to bring in Marshall, Powell-Pepper and Drew in the one draft. I’m doing that trade every day of the week.

You could say that the trade for Watts was a **** up, but I say that if Jack hadn’t broken his leg, he becomes a gun intercept defender for us before we bring in Aliir and we win the flag in 2020 with guys like Ebert, Hartlett, Gray etc. Then it would have been worth it.

It’s not that we didn’t rate 2017 - we just rated 2016 and 2018 more.
 
Our possible picks in 2017 that we gave up were 12 and 31. In 2016 we made a trade with what ultimately became pick 12 to bring in Marshall, Powell-Pepper and Drew in the one draft. I’m doing that trade every day of the week.
We gave up 12 in 2017 to get 19 in 2016. Which we then traded for 17 in 2017... which became 19 after bids.

We got extremely lucky there because we gave up 9 to drop back 14 and advance 49 to 31 (for Drew).

The luck being that the Adelaide Crows took Jordan Galluci with what started as 13.

You know what else we also have problems with? Rucks. in 2016 Tim English went the next pick after SPP. Sean Darcy went with pick 38. We had 30 and 31 going into the draft, the first being spent on Atley.
 

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