Current Trial The Murder of 9yo Charlise Mutten - Blue Mountains * Justin Stein Sentenced to Life in Prison

[Lady O]

I'm befuddled by this. Why would anyone deliberately shoot a 9yo? It does seem as if the mother was aware that she had been killed (via the text messages re sand and the boat). From what I have read, she had never met JS previously as he had only been released from jail a matter of months? I asked this question before, but I don't think anyone here knows when CM arrived for her visit? According to KM's FB page, she was supposed to arrive on 21 December, but the media have said she was on a 2 week holiday. That would mean she had to have been killed before 4 January, and that doesn't seem to have been the case.

The only thing I can think of is that CM saw/witnessed something that they were afraid she would blab about and put both of them back into jail. I guess taking drugs or dealing drugs would be the most likely given their history. CM was described as "chatty", and the description of JS being strangely silent on the ferry ride might indicate that she had let something slip that she should not have, or it just struck him that she couldn't be trusted to keep her mouth shut.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I'm befuddled by this. Why would anyone deliberately shoot a 9yo? It does seem as if the mother was aware that she had been killed (via the text messages re sand and the boat). From what I have read, she had never met JS previously as he had only been released from jail a matter of months? I asked this question before, but I don't think anyone here knows when CM arrived for her visit? According to KM's FB page, she was supposed to arrive on 21 December, but the media have said she was on a 2 week holiday. That would mean she had to have been killed before 4 January, and that doesn't seem to have been the case.

The only thing I can think of is that CM saw/witnessed something that they were afraid she would blab about and put both of them back into jail. I guess taking drugs or dealing drugs would be the most likely given their history. CM was described as "chatty", and the description of JS being strangely silent on the ferry ride might indicate that she had let something slip that she should not have, or it just struck him that she couldn't be trusted to keep her mouth shut.

I think he was released in November 2020, according to some reports. Whether they had met before we haven't been told. The timeline for everything is very blurry, except for when Stein was driving around towing the boat, and the initial phone call to 000.

Still not sure where this ferry was, or when, can someone enlighten? He may have been silent, mentally going over his plans and options.

 

[L756]

The report actually said "the child was seen", IIRC, not who saw her. How and when did Kallista get back to Wildenstein? She was obviously back on or by Friday, to have made the call.

I'm pretty sure I read that the mother and the accused (at the time described as the missing-child's parents) claimed to have last seen the child on the verandah on Thursday at 4.30pm, which at the time prompted me and others (people known to me: friends, family, etc.) to ask why they'd waited until Friday morning to report the child as missing? Maybe they'd been searching all night we said and hadn't accepted she was gone until early Friday? Then police stating they didn't know what the child was wearing, followed a day or two later by a description of what she'd been wearing. This was the strangeness, very early on, which captured public interest and captured mine. When did they realise she was missing (after seeing her on the verandah at 4.30)? Was it when she didn't answer dinner-time calls or when she wasn't around when she should have been taking a shower and preparing for bed, we asked? All the above was long before details about the 'parents' emerged

Online, people have been reporting that at yesterday's press conference, police stated the mother was now 'cooperating' and had either 'corroborated' or maybe 'collaborated' her earlier statements (no one seemed to know which or what either term signified)

But, you may be correct (not said begrudgingly btw). Guess time will tell

 

[Lady O]

I think he was released in November 2020, according to some reports. Whether they had met before we haven't been told. The timeline for everything is very blurry, except for when Stein was driving around towing the boat, and the initial phone call to 000.

Still not sure where this ferry was, or when, can someone enlighten? He may have been silent, mentally going over his plans and options.

Ok, I thought the story someone told was that KM and JS had "met" (corresponded) in jail and she had bragged of having sex with him in the carpark of the jail in the back of a ute and that was how she got pregnant. So I was thinking he must have only been out for a couple of months.

I don't know that area at all, but looking at Google Maps, there are several ferry crossings of the Hawkesbury river near the Caravan park and assume it would be the Lower Portland ferry. I guess they crossed one on the way to the Wedding Venue prior to CM's death.

 

[L756]

The stepfather and mother of Charlise Mutten have told police they can't remember what she was wearing when last seen on the verandah of the wedding venue property Wildenstein last Thursday afternoon.

While Charlise was initially said to be wearing a pink top, black knee-length skirt and pink Nike thongs when she was last seen, neither Kallista Mutten or her fiance have not been able to definitively say how she was dressed

The above was reported several days after first reports of missing child

I'll see if I can find earlier reports


Edit: Another, this one from the Guardian. Again some days after first reports of a missing child:

Charlise Mutten was last seen by her parents at a property at Mount Wilson, 60km north-west of Richmond

A large-scale search is continuing for a nine-year-old girl who has been missing in the New South Wales Blue Mountains since Thursday.

Police were alerted to Charlise Mutten’s absence on Friday morning.

They say she was last seen by her parents at a property at Mount Wilson, 60km north-west of Richmond

Another, from 7 News:

Volunteers and police searching for a missing nine-year-old girl through rugged bushland have encountered new roadblocks - the weather and COVID.

The search in the New South Wales Blue Mountains on Tuesday entered its fifth day.

The young girl was reported missing on Friday morning, with her parents telling police they last saw her on Thursday afternoon at Mount Wilson, 20km north of Katoomba.

It’s understood the schoolgirl had been staying at the property while on holiday from Queensland

 

[Jamurp]

At least this dickhead can't have have any more kids in prison. Also so much for the Mum 'getting her life back on track' by dating a felon with a history of drug use with multiple kids from previous relationships he probably never sees, what a **** up.

Just sad stuff.

 

[Kurve]

.

' The stepfather and mother of Charlise Mutten have told police they can't remember what she was wearing when last seen on the verandah of the wedding venue property Wildenstein last Thursday afternoon.

While Charlise was initially said to be wearing a pink top, black knee-length skirt and pink Nike thongs when she was last seen, neither Kallista Mutten or her fiance have not been able to definitively say how she was dressed.'

The above was reported several days after first reports of missing child

I'll see if I can find earlier reports

The mother might have repeated to the police what Stein had told her, in that he last saw Charlise on the verandah Thursday afternoon and the informal comments she made were either leading up to or through a medical episode, that I'd take an educated guess one of the symptoms of which was really high blood pressure. That can lead to confusion, disorientation and memory gaps.

One of the first things the paramedics would have done would be to take her blood pressure.

But maybe the press have got it all mixed up about who said what, then Stein has gone to Penrith police station for an interview where his story is full of inconsistencies. The police, still wanting search and rescue teams combing the scrub so they can quietly focus on tracking Stein's movements haven't made any corrections but they would have known within half a day that the last time Charlise was confirmed alive, was on the Tuesday evening.

 

[BFew]

At least this dickhead can't have have any more kids in prison.

Not impossible though.

Prison guard pregnant with inmate’s child

A prison officer got pregnant with an armed robber’s child after getting intimate behind bars.

www.news.com.au

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Very hard to get accurate accounts when reporters take it upon themselves to “fill in the blanks”, or put a slightly different slant on an item of information in order to either pep up the story or reach their allocated word count .

 

[L756]

.


The mother might have repeated to the police what Stein had told her in that he last saw Charlise on the verandah Thursday afternoon and the informal comments she made were either leading up to or through a medical episode that I'd take an educated guess one of the symptoms of which was really high blood pressure. That can lead to confusion, disorientation and memory gaps.

One of the first things the paramedics would have done would be to take her blood pressure.

But maybe the press have got it all mixed up about who said what, then Stein has gone to Penrith police station for an interview where his story is full of inconsistencies. The police, still wanting search and rescue teams combing the scrub so they can focus on tracking Stein's movements haven't made any corrections but they would have known within half a day that the last time Charlise was confirmed alive, was on the Tuesday evening.

Ok, let's say I was a biological parent and being questioned as a matter of urgency (child missing for many hours in location surrounded by thousands of hectares of virgin bush, snakes, pouring rain, etc.) as to when I last saw my child. Let's say police ask outright (as they should) ' When was the last time you saw your daughter alive?'.

My answer would be?

Being me, I would tell them precisely. And if I hadn't seen my daughter for days, I would tell them that, too. As would most parents

If I had not seen my daughter for x days or hours but had been told by another when my child was last seen alive, I would say, ' So and so told me my daughter was last seen alive yesterday afternoon at about 4.30 on the verandah'

Above, I've posted media sources, all saying the same thing. Were they provided that information by investigators? I'm guessing they were

When it comes to helping anyone at all to find one's missing child, a person would struggle to lift from their own death-bed to provide whatever information might help find that child and save its life, as in: ' Find my daughter. Ask him/her where she is. He/she was with her last. ASK him. FIND her', would be a normal parent's last words if they were that ill, imo

 

[Kurve]

Ok, let's say I was a biological parent and being questioned as a matter of urgency (child missing for many hours in location surrounded by thousands of hectares of virgin bush, snakes, pouring rain, etc.) as to when I last saw my child. Let's say police ask outright (as they should) ' When was the last time you saw your daughter alive?'.

My answer would be?

Being me, I would tell them precisely. And if I hadn't seen my daughter for days, I would tell them that, too. As would most parents

Yes, you probably would but we won't know exactly what this 31yo 38yo pregnant mother said until we hear the 000 call and can only go on what the police have told the press which for tactical reasons and we've seen many times before, isn't always the whole story.

Hopefully, none of us will ever be in her shoes to test whether we would say and do exactly what we think we would.

 

[L756]

Yes, you probably would but we won't know exactly what this 31yo pregnant mother said until we hear the 000 call and can only go on what the police have told the press which for tactical reasons and we've seen many times before, isn't always the whole story.

Most of us would be aware that investigators are releasing only what serves the investigation. There's a long way to go before it reaches court. It makes sense investigators would be pleased that the mother is finally 'cooperating' (their reported words) for many reasons, one of which being the fact they can now pit one party against the other, similar to house auctions. Self-preservation usually takes priority, aka saving one's own skin. *************.

 

[footscray1973]

Ok, let's say I was a biological parent and being questioned as a matter of urgency (child missing for many hours in location surrounded by thousands of hectares of virgin bush, snakes, pouring rain, etc.) as to when I last saw my child. Let's say police ask outright (as they should) ' When was the last time you saw your daughter alive?'.

My answer would be?

Being me, I would tell them precisely. And if I hadn't seen my daughter for days, I would tell them that, too. As would most parents

If I had not seen my daughter for x days or hours but had been told by another when my child was last seen alive, I would say, ' So and so told me my daughter was last seen alive yesterday afternoon at about 4.30 on the verandah'

Above, I've posted media sources, all saying the same thing. Were they provided that information by investigators? I'm guessing they were

When it comes to helping anyone at all to find one's missing child, a person would struggle to lift from their own death-bed to provide whatever information might help find that child and save its life, as in: ' Find my daughter. Ask him/her where she is. He/she was with her last. ASK him. FIND her', would be a normal parent's last words if they were that ill, imo

Your last paragraph would apply to most people, probably everyone I know (family and friends), and most/all posters on here. For whatever reason/s, the available details and narrative seem to indicate this urgency was not in evidence from Charlise's parent.

Also agree entirely with the rest of your post. KM doesn't seem to have acted as a rational parent would. Was it drugs, pregnancy, a degree of culpability, fear, indifference? Probably more than one of those, but which ones?

 

[Kurve]

I wrote:


The child is dead. So not a priority. And kindly take it in context within my larger post

The mother hasn't been charged, she hasn't even been declared a person of interest and we need to be very careful about what we post in here.

She's been interviewed and a witness now.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Ok, let's say I was a biological parent and being questioned as a matter of urgency (child missing for many hours in location surrounded by thousands of hectares of virgin bush, snakes, pouring rain, etc.) as to when I last saw my child. Let's say police ask outright (as they should) ' When was the last time you saw your daughter alive?'.

My answer would be?

Being me, I would tell them precisely. And if I hadn't seen my daughter for days, I would tell them that, too. As would most parents

If I had not seen my daughter for x days or hours but had been told by another when my child was last seen alive, I would say, ' So and so told me my daughter was last seen alive yesterday afternoon at about 4.30 on the verandah'

Above, I've posted media sources, all saying the same thing. Were they provided that information by investigators? I'm guessing they were

When it comes to helping anyone at all to find one's missing child, a person would struggle to lift from their own death-bed to provide whatever information might help find that child and save its life, as in: ' Find my daughter. Ask him/her where she is. He/she was with her last. ASK him. FIND her', would be a normal parent's last words if they were that ill, imo

Maybe “normal” doesn’t apply to these people.

 

[Kurve]

There's been some posts deleted in a stream of connected discussion, sorry if some others have been caught up in it.

 

[Kurve]

Also agree entirely with the rest of your post. KM doesn't seem to have acted as a rational parent would. Was it drugs, pregnancy, a degree of culpability, fear, indifference? Probably more than one of those, but which ones?

Maybe those things but 'denial' which isn't rational and that we see a lot in cases across this board, might also have come into play. The denial that the man she hoped to start a new life with was a monster and may actually have killed her daughter.

That isn't to be seen as defending Kallista Mutten on a personal level, she's a very unsympathetic character and I'm not immune to it.

 

[Kurve]

Was the first call the police had to report Charlise missing on the Friday morning .... or not?

Best mate of Charlise’s stepdad speaks out

A longtime friend of Charlise Mutten’s stepfather and accused killer, Justin Stein, has spoken out, declaring the 31-year-old “hasn’t got a bad bone in his body”.

www.news.com.au

 

[BFew]

Was the first call the police had to report Charlise missing on the Friday morning .... or not?

There was reportedly a call to NSW Police on the Friday from Kallista Mutten at approx. 8:20am on the Friday morning.

So with that news.com.au graphic you posted listing that Charlise was reported missing on the Thursday, maybe it's a mistake and they are just referring to the claimed Wildenstein verandah last sighting of Charlise on the Thursday.

Police claim Charlise Mutten’s mum was living in caravan before alleged murder​

January 21, 2022 - 10:47AM
Daily Telegraph

'A ute towing a boat similar to that police allege Stein tried to use to dump Charlise’s body was captured on CCTV passing the popular Tractor 828 cafe at Ebenezer about 2.20am last Friday, January 14; six hours before Ms Mutten made the call to triple-0 to report her daughter missing.'

Witnesses break silence on Charlise Mutten car sighting

Nine-year-old Charlise Mutten was last seen on the verandah of a five-hectare wedding venue in Mount Wilson, in the Blue Mountains - which is owned by the family of her mother Kallista's fiance.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'Charlise Mutten was last seen on Thursday afternoon on the verandah of a five-hectare wedding venue in Mount Wilson, in the Blue Mountains'

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

There was reportedly a call to NSW Police on the Friday from Kallista Mutten at approx. 8:20am on the Friday morning.

So with that news.com.au graphic you posted listing that Charlise was reported missing on the Thursday, maybe it's a mistake and they are just referring to the claimed Wildenstein verandah last sighting of Charlise on the Thursday.

Police claim Charlise Mutten’s mum was living in caravan before alleged murder​

January 21, 2022 - 10:47AM
Daily Telegraph

'A ute towing a boat similar to that police allege Stein tried to use to dump Charlise’s body was captured on CCTV passing the popular Tractor 828 cafe at Ebenezer about 2.20am last Friday, January 14; six hours before Ms Mutten made the call to triple-0 to report her daughter missing.'

Witnesses break silence on Charlise Mutten car sighting

Nine-year-old Charlise Mutten was last seen on the verandah of a five-hectare wedding venue in Mount Wilson, in the Blue Mountains - which is owned by the family of her mother Kallista's fiance.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'Charlise Mutten was last seen on Thursday afternoon on the verandah of a five-hectare wedding venue in Mount Wilson, in the Blue Mountains'

Last seen by whom? That hasn’t been clarified. If Kallista said it, she’s lying. If Stein said it, he’s lying.

 

[Kurve]

Last seen by whom? That hasn’t been clarified. If Kallista said it, she’s lying. If Stein said it, he’s lying.

The mother didn't say she saw Charlise on the Thursday imo, Doherty said that her recent formal interview is consistent with the conversations they had with her previously.

Superintendent Doherty said police had taken a formal statement from Kallista Mutten after she was released from hospital.

He said she was being treated as a witness and her statement corroborated the original version of events she provided.

‘An egregious act’: Police allege body of Charlise Mutten driven 200km across Sydney

Police on Tuesday confirmed Charlise’s mother, Kallista Mutten, who is engaged to the man charged with her murder, was staying elsewhere at the time the girl was killed.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

So it was Stein?

 

[BFew]

So it was Stein?

Looks like it was.

Charlise Mutten’s mum initially believed murder accused’s account​

Josh Hanrahan
January 26, 2022 - 8:29PM
Daily Telegraph

'Charlise Mutten’s mother initially believed the account from her fiance about her daughter’s whereabouts, to only later realise something was wrong and raise the alarm.

Kallista Mutten and Justin Laurens Stein had one or more phone conversations on Thursday, January 13, the day he allegedly spent almost five hours driving around with her body in the back of his Ute before he eventually dumped the nine-year-old’s body on the banks of the Colo River.

In the statement she gave to detectives last week, Ms Mutten said Stein initially provided an explanation as to why Charlise was not at the rural estate where she had left her in his care almost 48 hours earlier.

“He gave a story about where the kid was and she believed him, then later on she got concerned and reports her (Charlise) missing,” a police source told The Daily Telegraph.

Ms Mutten ultimately raised the alarm about 8.20am the next day, Friday, January 14, initially sparking a major missing person’s search that ultimately resulted in Charlise’s body being found dumped in a barrel and Stein charged with murder.'

IMO, the accused possibly told Kallista Mutten that Charlise was in the care of his (the accused's) mother.

 

[MauroFogheri]

Cousin liking the limelight a touch?

 

[Kurve]

Cousin liking the limelight a touch?

There's a cousin apparently that was initially asked not to speak publicly about it, it might be the same one.