Current Trial The Murder of 9yo Charlise Mutten - Blue Mountains * Justin Stein Sentenced to Life in Prison

[Run n Spread]

IF guilty shoot the ****ing prick as far as I'm concerned but justbe sure what you're doing

 

[Spectrix]

I'm not sure if the underwear is significant. She was found clothed. If the implication is that she was abused then he dressed her, why not put on her underpants as well? I'm wondering if she just wasn't wearing any, possibly because one had been washed for her.

She was found to be wearing an odd mix of clothing - namely a skirt that had a bullet hole in it and tracksuit pants that did not have a bullet hole. So it looks like the tracksuit pants were added afterwards.

The way I see it if Stein had intended to assault her he only needed to remove her underpants and lift her dress. And you would think she probably would have tried to get out of there around that time, hence being shot in the bum from a distance first.

 

[jason_recliner]

She was found to be wearing an odd mix of clothing - namely a skirt that had a bullet hole in it and tracksuit pants that did not have a bullet hole. So it looks like the tracksuit pants were added afterwards.

The way I see it if Stein had intended to assault her he only needed to remove her underpants and lift her dress. And you would think she probably would have tried to get out of there around that time, hence being shot in the bum from a distance first.

OK, but without this getting too awful, why remove underwear then fit trackies? Doesn't make sense to me, it seems more likely to me that she wasn't wearing underwear.

 

[Run n Spread]

The location of the murder? Doesn't have to be proven.


You mean Kmutt killing her? Or something else? Lots of things are possible but how likely can they be when there's no evidence supporting them (that we know of) and plenty of evidence supporting one theory?

Yes.
It's possible k killed her. But why
So the jury needs to consider.
And believe you me whoever did that should be taken out the back of the court and shot.

 

[jason_recliner]

It's possible k killed her.

But there's no evidence that occurred and the police arrested Stain, not K. How reasonable is it to suggest a meth head high on drugs murdered her daughter and left no evidence? How likely is that? Compared with how likely is it that the man who buried the gun identical to the one that killed her and disposed of her body is the man that killed her?

 

[Spectrix]

OK, but without this getting too awful, why remove underwear then fit trackies? Doesn't make sense to me, it seems more likely to me that she wasn't wearing underwear.

My implication was that he removed her underwear during the course of an attempted sexual assault, and that later he tried to hide that by putting the track pants on her. Maybe he was in a rush and couldn't locate the underwear. Who knows.

Remember he was probably off his face on meth as well. This is the same character who drove around boat ramps for six hours trying to dump the body, and couldn't even get the boat in the water or the barrel onto the boat.

 

[jason_recliner]

My implication was that he removed her underwear during the course of an attempted sexual assault, and that later he tried to hide that by putting the track pants on her. Maybe he was in a rush and couldn't locate the underwear. Who knows. Remember he was probably off his face on meth as well.

I think it's unlikely he wouldn't be able to locate the underwear she was wearing but could locate some track pants. More unlikely than her junkie trash mum not doing the laundry.

 

[Spectrix]

The thing is, this case is well publicised. What are the chances of this character staying alive long if he's set free? He would have to go into hiding or move to another country.

 

[Kurve]

Just checking in, is the jury still out on this?

 

[Spectrix]

No verdict as yet. Will have to wait until next week.

 

[Run n Spread]

My implication was that he removed her underwear during the course of an attempted sexual assault, and that later he tried to hide that by putting the track pants on her. Maybe he was in a rush and couldn't locate the underwear. Who knows.

Remember he was probably off his face on meth as well. This is the same character who drove around boat ramps for six hours trying to dump the body, and couldn't even get the boat in the water or the barrel onto the boat.

That is ****ing sick
Death penalty. But jury needs to be sure

 

[maggiethecat]

I’m wondering if Charlise put the trackies on herself to take off, no time to get knickers but she still wanted to be dressed , she takes off and that when the killer shoots her.. but this is only speculation

 

[Underarrest_]

My implication was that he removed her underwear during the course of an attempted sexual assault, and that later he tried to hide that by putting the track pants on her. Maybe he was in a rush and couldn't locate the underwear. Who knows.

Remember he was probably off his face on meth as well. This is the same character who drove around boat ramps for six hours trying to dump the body, and couldn't even get the boat in the water or the barrel onto the boat.

and how coincidental is it that Stein was pulled up at Bunnings to buy sand (allegedly for a project,) but happened to use it to put in the barrel with C and then gave two stories about when he first realised C was in the barrel.

 

[Underarrest_]

Police believe Stein had opportunity to murder C between 7.16pm and 10.06am. This might be what I had read as I can’t find specific time of C’s death.

 

[Spectrix]

I’m wondering if Charlise put the trackies on herself to take off, no time to get knickers but she still wanted to be dressed , she takes off and that when the killer shoots her.. but this is only speculation

It's unlikely that Charlise fitted the trackpants onto herself, as she would have had a 5mm hole in her pelvis by then

Police believe Stein had opportunity to murder C between 7.16pm and 10.06am. This might be what I had read as I can’t find specific time of C’s death.

As far as I understand that's basically the entire time window that Stein & Charlise were at Wildenstein together (without Ms Mutten). I believe the pathologist confirmed that she thought the girl had died roughly in that timeframe but couldn't be certain due to the advanced state of decomposition.

 

[Underarrest_]

It's unlikely that Charlise fitted the trackpants onto herself, as she would have had a 5mm hole in her pelvis by then




As far as I understand that's basically the entire time window that Stein & Charlise were at Wildenstein together (without Ms Mutten). I believe the pathologist confirmed that she thought the girl had died roughly in that timeframe but couldn't be certain due to the advanced state of decomposition.

I think the report also said that the drugs had been in C’s system for about 6 hours before her death. K wouldn’t have been at Wildenstein at the time C was drugged.

 

[Spectrix]

I think the report also said that the drugs had been in C’s system for about 6 hours before her death. K wouldn’t have been at Wildenstein at the time C was drugged.

She may have been at Wildenstein IF the time of death was a day later, which is what the defence team is suggesting.

 

[maggiethecat]

It's unlikely that Charlise fitted the trackpants onto herself, as she would have had a 5mm hole in her pelvis by then




As far as I understand that's basically the entire time window that Stein & Charlise were at Wildenstein together (without Ms Mutten). I believe the pathologist confirmed that she thought the girl had died roughly in that timeframe but couldn't be certain due to the advanced state of decomposition.

Are you saying that the trackies were put on after death?

 

[MrsBlueSky]

She may have been at Wildenstein IF the time of death was a day later, which is what the defence team is suggesting.

Isn't it about time police and prosecutors produced enough evidence about a crime before taking someone to court.
For example, what evidence did the defence team have to suggest when the girl died. Surely the prosecutors had some idea where, when and how Charlise died and could have shown why that was false.

We've had George Pell get off his charge, now another young bloke in POS has got the same lawyer and i'm imagining the police do not have enough on him to get him convicted for murder in a couple of years, the jury is out on the Greg Lynn double murder charge and I can see no hope in hell that will result in a conviction now that manslaughter is off the table.

The list goes on and it's all because police have started a prosecution before they have enough evidence.
If the pilot was going to kill himself and they had to arrest him then let him kill himself because after 40 witnesses there's no obvious gotcha moment.
If Stein wants to kill himself let him. Police are not out to protect these people from injuring themselves they are out to find out if they murdered someone.

In the case of Pell it wasn't murder but someone noticed that there was a lot of smoke in the air back in WA the day he died and that was from the BBQ they were having to welcome Cardinal George to hell.

If Stein and Kallista say they were on drugs at the time then let them prove it.
I have had a f...kn gutfull of defence lawyers saying their client had been binging for two days on a cocktail or drugs and alcohol as part of a reason to get them off and explaining why they had done something.
But the same people if the pilot was drunk (POS could say the same) still had the presence of mind to cover their tracks almost completely...and that almost not leaving any evidence doesn't even get them convicted sometimes.

To me, it shows the defence are much better at this crime game than the police and prosecutors.

The defendant gets one highly paid lawyer and they can beat charges that have involved possibly 1000 people in each case of Stein, Lynn and POS.

If the jury return a not guilty verdict on Stein it will be a travesty of justice and highlight once again that people are being taken to court before enough evidence has been collected. If the evidence isn't there to collect then let these people like Stein, POS and the pilot kill themselves. Surely those people aren't going to kill someone while police are watching them but my extremely small amount of faith I have in police would say that won't happen. And I doubt if anyone can nominate where it did happen. The Claremont serial killer was only allowed to kill again and again even tho the police had the info on him but were too dumb to put it together, so they weren't having him under watch when he was killing people.

Anyway, if women like the ex wife in Perth want to stay silent when their husband kills her friends in cold blood, if the Pope wants to stand up for George etc etc then it will give members of BF something to talk about in crime threads forever.

 

[Spectrix]

Are you saying that the trackies were put on after death?

Yes that's what I'm saying. If she was wearing those track pants at time of the shooting there would be bullet holes matching the ones in her skirt. Pretty difficult to get shot through the bum without damaging a set of track pants.

 

[Kurve]

Of course we all have suspicions of what was behind the motive for shooting Charlise but we need to be careful if the prosecution hasn't introduced covering up a SA as the motive. If there was any evidence of it, I'm sure the prosecution would be using it.

 

[Underarrest_]

She may have been at Wildenstein IF the time of death was a day later, which is what the defence team is suggesting.

I think they said time of death couldn’t be established because of decomposition.
The drug dealer said he didn’t see C, but S said she was lying down in the car.

 

[Spectrix]

The drug dealer said he didn’t see C, but S said she was lying down in the car.

Or she was lying down in the barrel in the back of the car, dead.

 

[maggiethecat]

I hate that the jury are taking so long in what should have been an obvious decision!
I dislike intensely the horrible woman that is obviously making this case her swan song and defending the murderer.

I didn’t know Charlise but her spirit has filled my heart since first hearing of her going “missing “ , just look at any photo of her and I’m sure you will feel it too and I just wish for justice for her …. My heart is also aching for her grandparents and family that loved , cared and nurtured her , I’m feeling like this and I didn’t know her so I can’t even begin to imagine how they feel . If they are reading this , I’m sending strength and love to you and am praying for the right outcome.

 

[Awakening]

Isn't it about time police and prosecutors produced enough evidence about a crime before taking someone to court.
For example, what evidence did the defence team have to suggest when the girl died. Surely the prosecutors had some idea where, when and how Charlise died and could have shown why that was false.

We've had George Pell get off his charge, now another young bloke in POS has got the same lawyer and i'm imagining the police do not have enough on him to get him convicted for murder in a couple of years, the jury is out on the Greg Lynn double murder charge and I can see no hope in hell that will result in a conviction now that manslaughter is off the table.

The list goes on and it's all because police have started a prosecution before they have enough evidence.
If the pilot was going to kill himself and they had to arrest him then let him kill himself because after 40 witnesses there's no obvious gotcha moment.
If Stein wants to kill himself let him. Police are not out to protect these people from injuring themselves they are out to find out if they murdered someone.

In the case of Pell it wasn't murder but someone noticed that there was a lot of smoke in the air back in WA the day he died and that was from the BBQ they were having to welcome Cardinal George to hell.

If Stein and Kallista say they were on drugs at the time then let them prove it.
I have had a f...kn gutfull of defence lawyers saying their client had been binging for two days on a cocktail or drugs and alcohol as part of a reason to get them off and explaining why they had done something.
But the same people if the pilot was drunk (POS could say the same) still had the presence of mind to cover their tracks almost completely...and that almost not leaving any evidence doesn't even get them convicted sometimes.

To me, it shows the defence are much better at this crime game than the police and prosecutors.

The defendant gets one highly paid lawyer and they can beat charges that have involved possibly 1000 people in each case of Stein, Lynn and POS.

If the jury return a not guilty verdict on Stein it will be a travesty of justice and highlight once again that people are being taken to court before enough evidence has been collected. If the evidence isn't there to collect then let these people like Stein, POS and the pilot kill themselves. Surely those people aren't going to kill someone while police are watching them but my extremely small amount of faith I have in police would say that won't happen. And I doubt if anyone can nominate where it did happen. The Claremont serial killer was only allowed to kill again and again even tho the police had the info on him but were too dumb to put it together, so they weren't having him under watch when he was killing people.

Anyway, if women like the ex wife in Perth want to stay silent when their husband kills her friends in cold blood, if the Pope wants to stand up for George etc etc then it will give members of BF something to talk about in crime threads forever.

I don’t think it’s necessarily a lack of evidence and that waiting before an arrest would generate any further evidence.

It’s evident to me from reading comments across the crime forum that some have an unrealistic expectation of what evidence there should be before finding someone guilty or not guilty.

Unfortunately not all cases have eye witnesses, cctv, confessions and dna. Its rarely that perfect.

Most cases require the jury to use common sense and apply critical thinking skills based on what’s presented to them and I’m not confident that every individual is up to the task.

Makes me wonder whether some cases should be judge only trials.