The next Melbourne stadium

[Johnny Bananas]

Fair point on electrifying the longer lines, especially the Sydney and Adelaide links that would require co-operation with other states.
Although, would they need to be electrified the whole way? It still would allow for the build over the station, without the fumes, if they ran on electricity only within Melbourne and diesel outside city area.

That's a good point, but it'd require an entirely new fleet. I did a little reading and found NSW are replacing their entire regional fleet with bi-mode multiple units that can do exactly what you describe. In Victoria however, the issue is that VLocity trains only run on diesel, and they're still being manufactured. Given they have a planned usage of 35 years, it seems like the plan is to keep using pure diesel trains until at least 2060. Perhaps a future government could embark on a project to renovate the existing fleet to become bi-mode multiple units, but I'm not sure if that's even technically feasible.

 

[JohnZ]

If the AFL sold Marvel and used the money to develop Gosch's Paddock, this is what could be done:

1. Based on Marvel Stadium's Footprint


2. Based on Kardinia Park's Footprint


So the space is there (just). The stadium could be used as Melbourne's training ground. Keep the MCC and AFL happy by including a member's reserve (either separate or combined).

The stadium at docklands is a roadblock to development of the waterfront. Open it up. You could keep the oval as parkland, or build a park over the railway lines between Bourke and La Trobe.

 

[Saucy]

If the AFL sold Marvel and used the money to develop Gosch's Paddock, this is what could be done:

1. Based on Marvel Stadium's Footprint
View attachment 2107567

2. Based on Kardinia Park's Footprint
View attachment 2107568

So the space is there (just). The stadium could be used as Melbourne's training ground. Keep the MCC and AFL happy by including a member's reserve (either separate or combined).

The stadium at docklands is a roadblock to development of the waterfront. Open it up. You could keep the oval as parkland, or build a park over the railway lines between Bourke and La Trobe.

No way they get rid of that parkland. It's a cool concept. Just won't happen.

The perfect spot was where Eddie proposed a few years ago. Knocking down John Cain Arena.

 

[The Quite Man]

If the AFL sold Marvel and used the money to develop Gosch's Paddock, this is what could be done:

1. Based on Marvel Stadium's Footprint
View attachment 2107567

2. Based on Kardinia Park's Footprint
View attachment 2107568

So the space is there (just). The stadium could be used as Melbourne's training ground. Keep the MCC and AFL happy by including a member's reserve (either separate or combined).

The stadium at docklands is a roadblock to development of the waterfront. Open it up. You could keep the oval as parkland, or build a park over the railway lines between Bourke and La Trobe.

I think the best place for another stadium would be between North Melbourne station & Footscray Rd

start with a 30,000 with with a corporate stand in about a 25% of the ground & single level for the rest of the ground

With planning to increase capacity when Marvels is at the end of its life

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[JohnZ]

I think the best place for another stadium would be between North Melbourne station & Footscray Rd

start with a 30,000 with with a corporate stand in about a 25% of the ground & single level for the rest of the ground

With planning to increase capacity when Marvels is at the end of its life

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Yes, E-Gate would be another good spot for a stadium, but I prefer the Gosch's Paddock location purely because it would centralise all sporting events into the one precinct.

There's also too much complaning about going from Richmond to Spencer St for a game of footy. Imagine if they had to go one stop further to North Melbourne....

 

[HBFlanker]

Matter of time before Collingwood and Richmond move out of their current training bases.

No room to grow and will be left behind the other clubs when it comes to expanding their footprints as a training base.

That will then open up possibilities for either of those venues to be transformed into a 30k seat stadium.

Both in great locations for this to occur.

 

[Rickee]

No way they get rid of that parkland. It's a cool concept. Just won't happen.

The perfect spot was where Eddie proposed a few years ago. Knocking down John Cain Arena.

That's all well and good, but John Cain Arena has tenant clubs that won't exactly be thrilled about being made homeless.

Where do we put the replacement 10,500+ seat indoor sports stadium for the basketball, netball, concerts and Australian Open?

 

[Saucy]

That's all well and good, but John Cain Arena has tenant clubs that won't exactly be thrilled about being made homeless.

Where do we put the replacement 10,500+ seat indoor sports stadium for the basketball, netball, concerts and Australian Open?

Couldn't you do all of those things at RL arena & MC Arena??

I have never understood the point of having the three.

 

[Rickee]

Couldn't you do all of those things at RL arena & MC Arena??

I have never understood the point of having the three.

They all have different capacities: Rod Laver is 15,000, MC is 7.5k and John Cain is 10,500. They are all used during the Australian Open, which is primarily why they were built.

Given the amount of events that are held in Melbourne, three multi purpose indoor venues of various capacities is a real necessity, losing the largest one would mean we probably miss out on concerts, tours and other events that bring in a lot of money.

 

[Saucy]

They all have different capacities: Rod Laver is 15,000, MC is 7.5k and John Cain is 10,500. They are all used during the Australian Open, which is primarily why they were built.

Given the amount of events that are held in Melbourne, three multi purpose indoor venues of various capacities is a real necessity, losing the largest one would mean we probably miss out on concerts, tours and other events that bring in a lot of money.

Is Marvel a multi purpose indoor venue??

Genuine question.

 

[RWB_Threads]

While the MCC argument and proximity to Olympic Park makes sense if it's going to be used for things other than Footy but if the AFL own and operate, let's be real that the main two clubs who would use the smaller stadium will be North and the Bulldogs. Having to get across town for our two H&A games at the G a year is a pain. If the purpose of the stadium is to be a smaller option to Marvel, then it has to be to the west/north-west of the CBD.

I don't think a 3rd stadium stacks up and the redevelopment option is probably the more feasible option.

 

[deck]

If the AFL sold Marvel and used the money to develop Gosch's Paddock, this is what could be done:

Why would you get rid of a stadium on the opposite side of the CBD to the MCG and then rebuild right next to the MCG. Surely the setup now that allows a lot more flexibility when both venues are used on the same day. Nevermind if the other venues around the MCG are being used to.

 

[EBERT THE KING]

They all have different capacities: Rod Laver is 15,000, MC is 7.5k and John Cain is 10,500. They are all used during the Australian Open, which is primarily why they were built.

Given the amount of events that are held in Melbourne, three multi purpose indoor venues of various capacities is a real necessity, losing the largest one would mean we probably miss out on concerts, tours and other events that bring in a lot of money.

Ive worked in sport for 10+ years and the funny thing about this is that John Cain Arena is a genuine chance of being demolished in the short term, however it will be rebuilt in the same location with a significantly increased capacity, and will become the number 1 venue for the Australian open moving forward.

I was at a conference earlier this year and this was all the talk.

Rod Laver in turn will be the one to be demolished permanently, and a smaller show court will take its place.

Its the most impressive sport precinct in the world, and will only get better.

Only spots for a second stadium in the precinct (or very close by) are punt road and the AIA Centre.

 

[Billy ray]

Who will play at this stadium?
How many games a season or weekend?
Is that less games therefore at Docklands? Or mcg? Or both lose games?

 

[Rickee]

Ive worked in sport for 10+ years and the funny thing about this is that John Cain Arena is a genuine chance of being demolished in the short term, however it will be rebuilt in the same location with a significantly increased capacity, and will become the number 1 venue for the Australian open moving forward.

I was at a conference earlier this year and this was all the talk.

Rod Laver in turn will be the one to be demolished permanently, and a smaller show court will take its place.

Its the most impressive sport precinct in the world, and will only get better.

Only spots for a second stadium in the precinct (or very close by) are punt road and the AIA Centre.

That's really interesting to hear.

I agree with the AIA Centre, Punt Road is sadly too hemmed in by......Punt Rd to facilitate development.

Gotchs Paddock could fit a 30k multipurpose venue for cricket, footy and maybe other sports like baseball as long as enough distance is given from AAMI Park

 

[Rickee]

Is Marvel a multi purpose indoor venue??

Genuine question.

I guess technically because of the roof, it can be classed as "indoor", but it would struggle to host regular events that require a floor, because it's a football stadium first and covering the turf will damage it. The capacity is also an issue, it's why the Storm only lasted the one season there - it's too expensive to hire a 55k capacity ground regularly if it's only going to be a quarter full

The reality is that we need more multipurpose venues specifically designed for indoor sports and events than football grounds, which can only host a limited type of event.

 

[errant bounce]

I've had conversation and been in meetings where this has been discussed directly and off the cuff.

The MCC aren't especially optimistic about a rebuild of the Shane Warne Stand. most of that is an understanding that the Victorian government don't have the money and stadiums are low on the priority list.

So the next stadium will be privately funded.

By the AFL.

By selling Marvel.

The new stadium won't be a third or a periphery ground, it'll be a bonafide second option and every expectation I've heard is that it'll be 60,000.

It'll be where Gosch's Paddock is now. not sure if Melbourne's upcoming move to Caulfield is a result of, or resulting in, this new stadium.

Victorian government will pay for a massive over-underground new Richmond station. it desperately needs it. if North Melbourne got an upgrade, Richmond's footprint will be two or three times as big. get the idea they want to fill in or grass a bit of it too. you'd basically have one immediate exit/entry to the new stadium and one to Swan Street and then further ones to the tennis/RLA, AAMI, and MCG.

I hated the idea at first and thought you'd lose a lot of soul by having just about every sporting and major music event within the same area, but the idea could be pretty impressive if they do it well. and a massive stadium with multiple gates would be cool to see.

 

[JohnZ]

So the next stadium will be privately funded.

By the AFL.

By selling Marvel.

The new stadium won't be a third or a periphery ground, it'll be a bonafide second option and every expectation I've heard is that it'll be 60,000.

It makes too much sense.

Marvel Stadium cuts off docklands from the CBD, and is prime land ripe for development. The land alone is worth the cost of building a new stadium.

Gosch's Paddock is never not going to be a park or footy oval. So makes for the perfect cheap spot to build it.

If they're gonna build it for 60k (so basically the same design as marvel stadium without the corner screens), they need to build it so that the top deck can be tarped off for smaller crowds (AFLW, VFL, BBL).

For the stadium to succeed, it needs to have a proper MCC and AFL reserve (even if combined into one), no solid roof (needs to let light in at all times), and they need to expand the parkland over the railway line to connect the whole precinct (including a new Richmond station to the west of Punt Rd).

 

[EBERT THE KING]

I've had conversation and been in meetings where this has been discussed directly and off the cuff.

The MCC aren't especially optimistic about a rebuild of the Shane Warne Stand. most of that is an understanding that the Victorian government don't have the money and stadiums are low on the priority list.

So the next stadium will be privately funded.

By the AFL.

By selling Marvel.

The new stadium won't be a third or a periphery ground, it'll be a bonafide second option and every expectation I've heard is that it'll be 60,000.

It'll be where Gosch's Paddock is now. not sure if Melbourne's upcoming move to Caulfield is a result of, or resulting in, this new stadium.

Victorian government will pay for a massive over-underground new Richmond station. it desperately needs it. if North Melbourne got an upgrade, Richmond's footprint will be two or three times as big. get the idea they want to fill in or grass a bit of it too. you'd basically have one immediate exit/entry to the new stadium and one to Swan Street and then further ones to the tennis/RLA, AAMI, and MCG.

I hated the idea at first and thought you'd lose a lot of soul by having just about every sporting and major music event within the same area, but the idea could be pretty impressive if they do it well. and a massive stadium with multiple gates would be cool to see.

60,000 is crazy. Wayyyy too big.

The smaller clubs would have to get one hell of a deal to agree to be tenants of that venue.

60k stadium when the saints play the giants, or North play Port isnt going to look pretty.

All the studies are showing that crowd sizes will not increase dramatically in the next 50 years due to cost of living and level of broadcasting increasing.

 

[errant bounce]

60,000 is crazy. Wayyyy too big.

The smaller clubs would have to get one hell of a deal to agree to be tenants of that venue.

60k stadium when the saints play the giants, or North play Port isnt going to look pretty.

All the studies are showing that crowd sizes will not increase dramatically in the next 50 years due to cost of living and level of broadcasting increasing.

The AFL will make a mint off of Marvel's land and even though the appetite for funding amenities like this is low, the state government will either gift the land or throw in a large amount of money for the stadium build. the AFL will be able to give low drawing tenant clubs a pretty kind deal.

No inside gossip on this, but if it's 60,000 and opposite the 'G, supporters won't sook and I imagine Collingwood, Richmond will play at least a few home games at this new venue and North, Doggies will be able to get multiple home games at the 'G.

And 60,000 isn't that nuts. this isn't a third stadium, it's just a replacement for Marvel. considering population and crowd patterns, it's a conservative estimate.

Plus, how many games are sell outs at Marvel but only get 44,000? I'm an AFL Member and Essendon home games are a pain in the arse. an extra 5,000 makes things eaiser.

Also disagree on the whole crowd thing. the AFL can afford to continue charging 28 bucks for an adult GA and 19 for a kid because it has such a hold and has so many flattering stadium deals. being able to take your wife and kids for what basically is a full day out for $75 is cheap. you can't even get four fast food burgers for that anymore.

Re: broadcasting, people in the southern states go to the footy to experience it. live broadcasted footy has been around for 30 years and hasn't dented crowds at all.

 

[shammersting]

I know it’s fanciful and I’m being the guy comparing to other stadiums around the world, but could they do a canopy to cover seats and have seating at 30,000 for smaller games like Vancouver and Atlanta?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It'll be where Gosch's Paddock is now. not sure if Melbourne's upcoming move to Caulfield is a result of, or resulting in, this new stadium.

Interesting. Are Melbourne going to abandon Casey Fields, or just move their Gosch's Paddock activities only to Caulfield? If it's moving everything, I wonder if Richmond would consider moving their HQ to Casey since they seem to be the most popular team out that way. I feel like even more than Gosch's Paddock, Punt Rd is the ultimate location for a second stadium, but it would require the entire ground to be demolished and moved west to be further away from the road.

 

[errant bounce]

Interesting. Are Melbourne going to abandon Casey Fields, or just move their Gosch's Paddock activities only to Caulfield? If it's moving everything, I wonder if Richmond would consider moving their HQ to Casey since they seem to be the most popular team out that way. I feel like even more than Gosch's Paddock, Punt Rd is the ultimate location for a second stadium, but it would require the entire ground to be demolished and moved west to be further away from the road.

There's no chance Richmond leave Punt Road.

Punt Road is a huge part of almost all of their strategies. remaining there is genuinely core to their future.

They're tearing down the old heritage stand (the ****in pricks; these clubs should be ashamed of how they allowed all these assets of history to just dilapidate) and replacing it with a new one that'll cost about a hundred mil (which is also completely nuts).

Punt Road's a core part of their identity and I don't think there's a club more synonymous and connotative with their ground.

No idea on Melbourne but these heavily complex, all over the place (literally) operations are a bad idea. tbh I think moving to the suburbs, even if Caulfield is well established, is a shocking idea. Hawthorn going to the middle of nowhere sounds shithouse. Melbourne out at Casey in some half half pissy commitment doesn't work either. we've had a hundred plus years for people to get attached to teams and some kid choosing to go for the Demons because they train there once a fortnight is just about the most idealistic, unlikely membership vision you could think of.

St Kilda's heavily embraced Moorabbin and their 15 years in Frankston should be used a case study on how pointless these exercises are. these grounds are important places. it's not just identity and how it builds good footballing culture, but it's savvy financially, too: it's easy and emotive marketing, it creates a solid brand (especially now with standalone VFL teams and AFLW), and players and staff like living in these established and inner city areas.

 

[flamethrower]

If there is one thing I have learnt from my travels to stadiums all over the world, it is that building multiple large stadiums in the one precinct is a logistical nightmare. It means you can never have events at both sites at the same time, as moving 120,000 to 160,000 persons through the same area at the same time causes all sorts of issues.

Imagine 100,000 leaving the MCG and 60,000 arriving at the proposed Swan Street / Gosch's Paddock Stadium at the same time, the majority of which would be using Richmond station as driving in the area would be impossible.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Punt Road's a core part of their identity and I don't think there's a club more synonymous and connotative with their ground.

Carlton and Princes Park, but I take your point.