Play Nice The NM Devil's Chessboard Thread - Part II

[Chadwiko]

It was Trump that negotiated and agreed to the surrender in Doha.

This is true. No question.

But as we've seen time and time again, things change between administrations and international deals aren't always honoured between Presidents (ie the Obama Iran Deal being torn up by Trump, as well as the many similar climate treaties not honoured by Trump) etc etc.

Biden went through with it and copped the heat for it, not Trump. In fact, Trump attacked Biden for it lol.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-assails-biden-afghanistan-humiliation-2021-08-22/

 

[Chadwiko]

So now you're talking for presidential history...

THATS BEEN THE ENTIRE CONTEXT RIGHT FROM THE START. That's literally the only lens I've been discussing 'legacy' in the entire time.

If you weren't clued in on that by discussions about 'who the worst Presidents ever' are and the rankings I posted and the broader discussions around it, then that's a 'you' problem.

...voting patterns that you aren't even capable of analysing properly. There was one of them that was black out of all fifty or however many there are and he wasn't even born in North America. He was born in a sovereign country the US invaded and stole from its indigenous inhabitants. Hawaii is less legitimate than the Russian presence in Eastern Ukraine as Bill Clinton acknowledged while president. So really **** presidential historical perspectives.

Yeahhhh I'm not gonna lie I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Maybe edit it to be comprehensible and we'll return to it? If you're trying to say that Obama is an illegitimate president, then 'congratulations' you once again are on the same side as Donald Trump.

 

[Val Keating]

This is kinda what I mean.

Hillary whinged incessantly about Russia's efforts (its accepted that these efforts did actually happen, even by Republicans leading this Senate committee, going so far as to call contact between Russians and Trump's team "a grave counterintelligence threat") and blamed them (and anyone else she could think of but herself) for losing. But she did accept that she lost, she conceded the election - something Trump has never to this day done.

Additionally, she didn't

• Call the other side cheats and frauds, daily, for 2 months
• Accuse them of literally producing fake ballots
• Ask state reps to "find" votes and flip states
• Pressure the VP to ignore the constitution and not certify
• Organise a protest march to the capitol on certification day after the aforementioned 2 months of calling the other side cheats and frauds, then try to wash her hands of the fairly predictable result

Pretty straightforward I would have thought.

Remember when she called Tulsi Gabbard a Russian assest? The Democrats really jumped the shark with the Russian rubbish

Come on, pretending some kind of equivalence between Trump 2020 and Hillary 2016 or Gore 2000 is patently absurd.

Trump definitely went overboard, not disputing that.

 

[Chadwiko]

Remember when she called Tulsi Gabbard a Russian assest?

She very probably is. Her largest political donors are Russian.

The Democrats really jumped the shark with the Russian rubbish

No, not really. The Republicans just ran a semi-effective misinformation campaign in an effort to discredit it.

As a reminder:

Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 U.S. election has ensnared dozens of people, including several advisers to President Donald Trump and a series of Russian nationals and companies.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ts-abound-in-trump-russia-probe-idUSKCN1R32T5

• Mueller’s team indicted or got guilty pleas from 34 people and 3 companies during their investigation.
• This included 6 former Trump advisers, 26 Russian nationals & 3 Russian companies.
  • Paul Manafort: Trump's Campaign Manager. Found to have passed Trump campaign data to Russian operatives. Later indicted for his work in Ukraine for Pro-Russian individuals.
  • Roger Stone: Trump Adviser. Sentenced to 40 months in prison for crimes that include obstruction of justice, lying to Congress and witness tampering, related to his efforts to work with Wikileaks to help surface Hillary's hacked emails.
  • George Papadopoulus: Trump aide. Convicted of lying to investigators about Russian contacts.
  • Michael Flynn: Trump National Security Advisor. Resigned after caught lying about a meeting with Russian Ambassador Kislyak. The retired three-star general pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI in Dec. 2017.

https://time.com/5610317/mueller-report-myths-breakdown/

But Republicans try and say it was all “a Democratic hoax”.

It wasn't.

 

[Chadwiko]

Anyone reading this thread recently would probably think I'm a big Biden blue-dog but I promise I'm not. (Team Bernie/AOC/Squad all the way).

But that said, this is true;

 

[ferball]

(Which it isn't, objectively)

I'm not wasting my time with you when you spout this shit. Its been 38 years since Biden made 5g of crack the equivalent of 1/2 a kilo of powder cocaine. Over that time there is a turnover of over 500,000 people year in new arrests and releases. Do the maths yourself.

If you're genuinely interested in those election figures you can find them thru organisations like the Brennan Centre for Justice or look at polls about this years elections.

 

[Chadwiko]

I'm not wasting my time with you when you spout this shit. Its been 38 years since Biden made 5g of crack the equivalent of 1/2 a kilo of powder cocaine. Over that time there is a turnover of over 500,000 people year in new arrests and releases. Do the maths yourself.

Why do you blame Biden specifically for this?

He wasn't the sponsoring member of Congress that drafted the bill (that was Jack Brooks). He wasn't the President who advocated for the bill and specifically campaigned on being 'tougher on crime' (that was Bill Clinton). He wasn't the Speaker of the House that passed the bill (that was Tom Foley). He wasn't the Senate President who passed the bill (that was Al Gore). He wasn't a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, who voted for the bill and supported it enthusiastically.

Joe Biden was "just" the Senator who introduced it into the Senate from the House where it originated. It passed the Senate vote 95-4, by the way.

Like I said in that first post, the notion that Joe Biden is the chief architect or solely responsible for the 1994 Crime Bill is literally MAGA propaganda.

Hell, Bill Clinton even stood by the bill while campaigning for Hillary in 2016, saying:

"Because of that bill we had a 25-year low in crime, a 30-year low in the murder rate, and because of that and the background-check law, a 46-year low in deaths of lives by gun violence and who do you think those lives were that mattered? Whose lives were saved that mattered?" Clinton asked."

But sure; keep following the conservative playbook and blame Joe Biden and then go on pretending that you're really not a right-winger. It's just a total coincidence you continue to agree with them and repeat their talking points.

 

[The Butcher]

I've enjoyed this soap opera, thanks everyone. Hopefully tho, it has a short run.

For me it's been a treat to see someone, rightly or wrongly, be on the receiving end of what may be their own tool, the old "I know you might not have meant it that way, but according to us that's how it comes across to at least one member of this group and that's paramount so we're going to have to ask you to do some training modules to fix that, OK" and the classic "the lady doth protest too much methinks".

North fam, lets not assume the worst of each other. Can't we just get along. Yes, I watched Mars Attacks last night. Jack's best role IMO. Enough BAK BAK.

 

[DesertRoo]

This is kinda what I mean.

Hillary whinged incessantly about Russia's efforts (its accepted that these efforts did actually happen, even by Republicans leading this Senate committee, going so far as to call contact between Russians and Trump's team "a grave counterintelligence threat") and blamed them (and anyone else she could think of but herself) for losing. But she did accept that she lost, she conceded the election - something Trump has never to this day done.

Additionally, she didn't

• Call the other side cheats and frauds, daily, for 2 months
• Accuse them of literally producing fake ballots
• Ask state reps to "find" votes and flip states
• Pressure the VP to ignore the constitution and not certify
• Organise a protest march to the capitol on certification day after the aforementioned 2 months of calling the other side cheats and frauds, then try to wash her hands of the fairly predictable result

Pretty straightforward I would have thought.

She accused the pres of being a traitor to the United States to this day, set up a witch hunt run by Intel community, so they leaked fake stories constantly to the media, until muller had to front congress and stand there and say I don’t recall, I don’t recall a hundred times.
Yeah totally different to calling someone a fraud for two months.

 

[The Warlord]

Psychotic shit

 

[giantroo]

 

[The Warlord]

But sure; keep following the conservative playbook and blame Joe Biden and then go on pretending that you're really not a right-winger. It's just a total coincidence you continue to agree with them and repeat their talking points.

It's not "talking points" that determine whether someone is right wing, but their actions and firm political beliefs.

Widely accepted markers of someone being right wing include:

* Being credibly accused of racism by a POC but denying and/or mocking the claims

* Working in industries/sectors known for attracting lots of other right wingers like law enforcement

* Espousing a Geopolitical world view that holds thst "we" the English speaking white people are correct/sensible and "they" aka anyone who disagrees is wrong and subject to military action

 

[Chadwiko]

Widely accepted markers of someone bring right wing include:

Nice try.

 

[The Warlord]

Nice try.

To paraphrase a great Jedi master, there is no try, there is only do or do not.

Some behaviours and traits are widely accepted as indicative of a left winger too:

* An abhorrence of racism and willingness to call it out

* A focus on class politics and natural siding with the oppressed and exploited

* A recognition that world affairs involving major powers are defined by imperial struggles for resources and the desire to damage competitors (lefties from Orwell to Jon Stewart)

* Professions usually associated with a left wing world-view include ... journalism

The only time I ever seen you engage in class politics is when you sneeringly mocked our temporary fencing at Arden Street as "povvo", betraying a privileged world view

Similarly in your desperation to justify your Anglosupremacist take on Ukraine you resort to childish hysterical smears about me using "FSB talking points" rather than engage in my standard argument that it is war for imperial aims with the working class as casualty.

Indeed you actually show more sympathy for Russian murderersand rapists than you do the average Ukranian soldier.

The thing you're most interested in is fancy US military hardware though, which is again deeply telling.

I don't really care thst you're right wing - its very common in Melbourne's post materialist wannabe inner city types - it's your ongoing racist violence towards my friend I won't stand for.

 

[Chadwiko]

Hahaha now I know you're tilted because that's a bunch of nonsense.

 

[The Warlord]

The crossover poll

 

[The Warlord]

Hahaha now I know you're tilted because that's a bunch of nonsense.

It's all true and you can't refute it. Hence having to resort to the same old kind of dismissive stuff you always do.

I'm actually giving you a chance to redeem yourself and simply own what you said, apologise and we can all move on

If you're not going to do that, fine, but your racism won't be forgotten and will be called out at every opportunity

 

[The Warlord]

Jewish Daesh

 

[bourbons]

Trump definitely went overboard, not disputing that.

Unprecedented would be the descriptor I'd use.

 

[The Warlord]

 

[The Warlord]

Unprecedented would be the descriptor I'd use.

People who say US politics will be broken irreparably if he wins miss the point that his acquittal at impeachment already broke US politics for a generation if not forever

 

[bourbons]

She accused the pres of being a traitor to the United States to this day

Did she? I googled and can only find references to Trumpers calling Hillary "traitor" (and shouting "kill her" at his rallies).

Not that it matters much if she did - Trump does this weekly, to anyone mildly critical of him.

set up a witch hunt

Like the one Trump is on record saying he'll do once elected? "I'll only be a dictator for the first day" - dictators being well known for relinquishing power after a set period.

so they leaked fake stories constantly to the media

I assume I don't even have to address this one in the context of the Donald lol

Yeah totally different to calling someone a fraud for two months.

And the fake electors, asking state reps to find votes and pressuring the VP to ignore the constitution and not certify?

 

[Chadwiko]

Shout out to the Argentinians rebelling against Javier Milei's fascist far-right populist bullshit.

 

[The Warlord]

He really really likes his fascists doesn't he

 

[Chadwiko]

He really really likes his fascists doesn't he

There you go again, attacking the left-wing politician.