Oppo Camp The Non-North Footy Discussion & Matchday Chat Thread (NNFD&MCT) VII

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"Best games ever" on Fox showing 1986 Fitzroy v *.
Horace
 
Speaking of The Saints, how can you not love this:

 
All right.
 
C'mon.
 
King Corey said:
I think this sells him well short though. No saints coach before or after went near success with portions of the same list.

The fact he has taken 2 separate clubs through grand finals shows he might appear a bit cookie-cutter but it works.

2009-10 were so close he really should be in the same or higher regard than Paul Roos, Luke Beveridge and John Worsfold who will all be remembered as premiership coaches with inferior H&A records.

The lockdown footy bit never made sense to me. They flogged plenty of sides with that approach so their offensive game was still strong.
Click to expand...
Yeah, realise my post probably came across as a bit "yeah, nah, Lyon's sh!t, do not want", but I didn't really meant it that way. He's a very good coach and I'm sure he will get the St Kilda players all on the same page, playing in accordance with his game plan and make them very competitive. But still just don't think that that necessarily means he's getting the most out of the group because his game plan may not exploit the weapons at his disposal to the greatest extent possible and that's what I think of when I think of his first stint at the Saints.

As for his second stint at the Saints, he's heading into a far different situation to what he did the first couple of times in terms of talent on the list and personally I reckon Lyon will get them competitive but mid-table will be their limit. And, as we know, once you get into that mid-table mire it can be darn hard to get out of. Anyway, time will tell.
 
Nate7 said:
"Best games ever" on Fox showing 1986 Fitzroy v *.
Horace
Click to expand...

Thanks Nate. Unfortunately haven't been on BF today to see your message until now, so missed it. But much appreciated your message
 
There is going to be a live experiment happen in front of our eyes next year.

We will know categorically if the hypothesis of ‘ you don’t want a coach that has been out of the game for a while’ is true or not.

Clarkson - 1 year
Scott - 3 years
Lyon - 3 years

Clarko has been overseas studying to further his coaching capability. He’s clearly driven for one thing and that’s coaching.

Scott has been sitting at AFL house and as far as I can tell been doing analysis to understand what moves can be made to further f*** the game right in the bunghole.

Lyon, he’s been sitting in the outer making comments from the cheap seats in the gutter trash that is footy media.

I don’t see how either Lyon or Scott have done anything to make their coaching better. Scott was ok with a team built around contested bulls. * list does not have that. Also pretty clear that there is significant ego at play at board level. I’m sure that * will be fine because Scott doesn’t have a massive ego needing stroking.

Lyon will likely make St Kilda more consistent. Whether that lifts them or not is a big question. How they take a two year payout into their soft cap will be interesting too. Be pretty interesting to understand what their 5-10 year plan looks like. From here they look a bit wonky.

For us it’s simple. We need Clarkson to succeed. There is no alternative here. However I also think he has time to build into it. The other two clubs are likely to expect more sooner.
 

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Only Forwards said:
There is going to be a live experiment happen in front of our eyes next year.

We will know categorically if the hypothesis of ‘ you don’t want a coach that has been out of the game for a while’ is true or not.

Clarkson - 1 year
Scott - 3 years
Lyon - 3 years

Clarko has been overseas studying to further his coaching capability. He’s clearly driven for one thing and that’s coaching.

Scott has been sitting at AFL house and as far as I can tell been doing analysis to understand what moves can be made to further f*** the game right in the bunghole.

Lyon, he’s been sitting in the outer making comments from the cheap seats in the gutter trash that is footy media.

I don’t see how either Lyon or Scott have done anything to make their coaching better. Scott was ok with a team built around contested bulls. * list does not have that. Also pretty clear that there is significant ego at play at board level. I’m sure that * will be fine because Scott doesn’t have a massive ego needing stroking.

Lyon will likely make St Kilda more consistent. Whether that lifts them or not is a big question. How they take a two year payout into their soft cap will be interesting too. Be pretty interesting to understand what their 5-10 year plan looks like. From here they look a bit wonky.

For us it’s simple. We need Clarkson to succeed. There is no alternative here. However I also think he has time to build into it. The other two clubs are likely to expect more sooner.
Click to expand...


Real acid test will be how hard the " meeja " go on 4 time premiership lovechild Sam Mitchell and his scorched earth policy at Hawforn.
 
Hojuman said:
Real acid test will be how hard the " meeja " go on 4 time premiership lovechild Sam Mitchell and his scorched earth policy at Hawforn.
Click to expand...
23 won’t be a problem.

25 may be if they bottom out and stay down the bottom.
 
Devington said:
I haven't been following the St Kilda saga much, but has Ratten come out and said anything yet? Or is there more clarity about why he got the arse?
Click to expand...
No, and I’m not at all surprised as he has some class. Apparently his axing is as a result of the review, but I suspect it’s also thanks to the fat cats’ discussions on Lindsay Fox’s birthday cruise and Ross Lyon’s availability.
 
Just watched pumped now lol
 
Last edited:
thewest.com.au

Ross The Revamped Boss? Lyon must change to thrive at Saints

To use his own well-worn line, Ross Lyon 3.0 will be a re-stumped, re-wired and re-plumbed AFL coach.
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au

Glen Quartermain
The West Australian
Mon, 24 October 2022

To use his own well-worn line, Ross Lyon 3.0 will be a re-stumped, re-wired and re-plumbed AFL coach.

His mantra can’t be “I’m paid to win games of footy”.

He will have to sell hope to the St Kilda fans because the AFL coach, circa 2023, is a very different beast to the Ross Lyon who walked through the door at Moorabbin at the end of 2006.

St Kilda say they need a coach with an “edge”. We are about to find out what that edge has been refined in three years out of the game.

There are exceptions, but the modern elite AFL player needs a massage, not a sledgehammer.

Lyon says his heart has been opened by the St Kilda board. Now, he has to open his mind as well.

He made a very good fist of it in his first incarnation at St Kilda, leading the perennially underachieving club to four straight finals series. That included two flag near-misses against Geelong in 2009 and Collingwood in 2010.

Statistically, he is St Kilda’s most successful coach by percentage of games won, with a 64.5 per cent winning record.


Historically, he is nudged by the late Allan Jeans, whose 16-season stint netted two grand final appearances for one premiership, the club’s only flag in 1966, and nine finals appearances for an overall success rate of 58.2 per cent.

Lyon then drove a dagger through the heart of St Kilda fans when he left the club with a year to go on his contract, which he says was a mess of the Saints’ own making as they dithered on an extension.

If ever there was a question on whether he was a master coach, it was dispelled at Fremantle, where he oversaw their most successful era, including their only grand final appearance in 2013, before he was sacked in 2019 after four seasons without September action.

On-field success came with a price, though. Lyon’s steely, often humourless public persona disenfranchised fans at both the Saints and Dockers.

They loved the success, but were they having fun?

Life under Lyon was stressful, for players, coaches and administrators, and both clubs had a mess to mop up after his departure.


Those who have thrived under him talk of a charismatic charm and a genuine humour. Lyon would be well advised to let that seep into the public arena.

Interestingly, the Saints’ courting of Lyon came with, as Lyon would call it, a “fingernail deep” process. The very process he wanted to avoid when he pulled out of the Carlton coaching race that Michael Voss won.

The “process” might not have suited Lyon’s style. He would have argued he had runs on the board.

The due diligence required in a “process” could also have led any suitor to wade into the sexual harassment complaint filed against Lyon by a former Fremantle employee before his departure.

When speculation was aired linking Lyon to the Carlton job last year, he addressed the sexual harassment imbroglio, which resulted in a six-figure payout and the signing of non-disclosure agreements.

“What I can say is, and I said at the time when I addressed things in Fremantle, the duress and the hurt that a lot of parties were feeling, I felt terrible,” he said on Footy Classified.

“I need to say this; there was a respectful and confidential resolution reached and designed to protect all parties.

“The reason it’s respectful as well is because it is confidential. My intention is to respect that and not comment any further.”

Lyon won’t like it, but this stuff sticks.

It remains a miasma cloud hovering above. As sure as cold pies and warm beer in winter, the saga will rain on Lyon and St Kilda again.

Lyon will also have to change the way he coaches.

There was a belief he managed “up” really well, forming close bonds with the elite talent in his team.

Players at the other end of the spectrum, unless they were special projects, often did not feel so loved.

Lyon has some of his former stars around him. Lenny Hayes is his new right-hand man as an assistant coach. A UV light would surely reveal Nick Riewoldt, Brendon Goddard and Nick dal Santo’s fingerprints attached to the appointment.

On the field, there were will a tinker too.

West Coast great Peter Sumich, who worked under Lyon for five years as an assistant coach at Fremantle before falling out with the coach and departing, thinks his defence-first system will work in 2023.

But he will have to diverge from his dictatorial ways

“He wouldn’t coach the same way. He would change tack on that,” Sumich told The West Australian.

“Ross was one of those coaches who was over everything. He would cross the ‘T’s, dot the ‘I’s on everything.

“What I think he has probably learnt out of it is that he would delegate a bit more.

“I think that is probably what he has learnt outside of the game now, being involved in the media and looking on from a distance.

“There is a huge chunk of his game plan that would still be successful now. The defensive side of his game plan, you wouldn’t want to tinker with that too much because that was a real strong point.

“Offensively, he was always looking for other ways and he has probably found more by being out of the game.”

Sumich conceded the game had changed in the three years Lyon has been out of the game, but believed he could adapt.

“It has gone quicker, and quick off turnover. But it wasn’t as if he wasn’t trying to do a lot of that,” he said.

“But you have got to have the player group to do it. I don’t know if he has got that (at St Kilda).

“If you look at Collingwood and the way they play. They have players like the Daicos boys, they have gone down that path with certain players in the way they want to play and attack.

“St Kilda have got that with certain players but they might have to recruit to go down that path fully.”

Recently retired Fremantle great David Mundy described Lyon as “the best coach I ever had”.

“He sees the game really well and I think that is accurately reflected in the football media stuff he’s been doing the last couple of years,” Mundy said.

“Ross will go in there and immediately make an impact. Like he did at Fremantle, sharpen everyone up and make everyone accountable.

“He is really good at verbalising what’s required in his system ... St Kilda will be instantly better next year.”

Mundy also agreed that Lyon would have to change.

“Ross is a really hard taskmaster. He is a really determined, disciplined head coach,” Mundy said.

“He demands the absolute best of everyone all the time and sometimes that can grate on individuals.

“He is certainly good at getting the best out of people. He got the best out of me as a player. A lot of other people would say that as well.”

Mundy’s theory about Lyon’s often abrasive relationship with the West Australian media was founded on his very first press conference.

“His initiation into WA and the WA media landscape at Fremantle certainly didn’t help,” Mundy said.

“Even how he took over from Harvs (Mark Harvey) was pretty cut-throat.

“A lot of Fremantle people were off him straight away because of how Harvs was dealt with.

“He can be a prickly personality but he certainly protects his own and there would have been an element of him feeling right from the start he had to circle the wagons and protect himself and his family.”

Mundy said Lyon could be very charismatic and funny and it would help if he showed ‘”a bit of personality and that charismatic side will certainly help him”.

Whatever happens, this will not be a boring watch. There will press conference lines about cobblers, licks of the ice cream, anywhere, anytime football teams and no doubt a few new lines Lyon has been working on.

It will be at times brutal and painful and the Saints may have to take a few staggered steps back to go forward.

But it will never be boring.
 
 
Remember that game a few years ago where Alex Rance flipped out? Just popped into my head
 
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