The Nuclear debate

[SaintsSeptember]

So when do we get the nuclear update disaster equivalent of windows vista?

For god sake don’t let Microsoft os anywhere near nuclear reactors

I've often imagined what it would be like if Microsoft made cars.
You'd come out of the Supermarket with your trolly full of booze groceries.
There's your car with the engine out and bits scattered all around, and the guy there in the overalls tells
you. Hey mate, we're just doing an upgrade , it might take a moment.
Several hours later you get in your car. It rattles and for some reason won't reach the speed limit.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The LNP have no nuclear strategy. It’s just talk.

It’s just talk and talk and talk to filibuster and delay renewables as long as possible so that fossil fuels can keep burning.

Like most politics these days there is no actual policy. It’s just announcements of things that don’t exist.

 

[barreness]

US Tech companies appear to be massively supporting nuclear to power data centres. Both Microsoft and Google have made strategic investments in nuclear.

It's kinda dumb though right? Our new invention(which is definitely not intelligent) requires huge amounts of power so we'll restart some nuclear plants.

If the plan was to shut down a coal/gas plant and replace it sure, but more energy is required so fire up the spicy rocks and keep the polluting thingies

 

[peetoo]

So does it make sense for transport to have nuclear power?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So does it make sense for transport to have nuclear power?

If your transport is a big boat that goes under the water.

 

[peetoo]

If your transport is a big boat that goes under the water.

Or interplanetary probe

 

[nut]

I don’t think he missed anyone.

 

[QuietB]

I just read this in The Saturday Paper - WOW

"What also didn’t break through – and this may be just as important – is the positive news: the news that we are not helpless before this crisis, that this problem is within our capacity to solve. This year, we passed the point where globally every day one gigawatt of solar panels is installed – the same output as a new nuclear plant.

Also this year, California used a quarter less natural gas because the state’s solar panels and batteries have made up that difference. “A quarter less natural gas in a year in the world’s fifth-largest economy,” McKibben wrote, “is the biggest single bite yet taken out of the eventual temperature of the earth, and yet it is passing mostly unnoticed.”

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I just read this in The Saturday Paper - WOW

"What also didn’t break through – and this may be just as important – is the positive news: the news that we are not helpless before this crisis, that this problem is within our capacity to solve. This year, we passed the point where globally every day one gigawatt of solar panels is installed – the same output as a new nuclear plant.

Also this year, California used a quarter less natural gas because the state’s solar panels and batteries have made up that difference. “A quarter less natural gas in a year in the world’s fifth-largest economy,” McKibben wrote, “is the biggest single bite yet taken out of the eventual temperature of the earth, and yet it is passing mostly unnoticed.”

Its bullshit though.
A Gigiawatt of Solar doesn't produce any more electricity than my old shoes in the middle of the night.
Still good they install it, but god some people are too dumb to report on this stuff.

 

[QuietB]

Its bullshit though.
A Gigiawatt of Solar doesn't produce any more electricity than my old shoes in the middle of the night.
Still good they install it, but god some people are too dumb to report on this stuff.

It is a problem that needs to be solved. That does mean “it’s bullshit”.

Using 25% less gas is not “bullshit”.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Its bullshit though.
A Gigiawatt of Solar doesn't produce any more electricity than my old shoes in the middle of the night.
Still good they install it, but god some people are too dumb to report on this stuff.

But it's not just solar right? It's solar AND batteries that have driven the decline in gas.

Not sure how that can be anything but a good thing.

 

[peetoo]

I think we need nuclear powered mega utes

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

I think we need nuclear powered mega utes

Maybe we need nuclear powered MAGA utes

 

[SaintsSeptember]

But it's not just solar right? It's solar AND batteries that have driven the decline in gas.

Not sure how that can be anything but a good thing.

They report solar as if its the be all and end all. As if you can compare the GW Solar capacity to that of fuel.
I even said its a good thing but its shonky reporting.
Batteries cost way way more than solar.

 

[peetoo]

Former ANSTO boss slams ‘catastrophic nuclear error’ — The Australian

Business leaders urge the Albanese government to include nuclear as a future energy option, joining criticism of Labor’s withdrawal from an international nuclear collaboration.

apple.news

Yet the UK called on Chinese expertise to build its newest nuclear power plant

Why does the UK need China to build its nuclear plants?

Chancellor George Osborne is keen on getting Chinese help. Why?

www.bbc.com

If aus were to go nuclear, quite possible the expertise would come from China or India

 

[Rob R]

Former ANSTO boss slams ‘catastrophic nuclear error’ — The Australian

Business leaders urge the Albanese government to include nuclear as a future energy option, joining criticism of Labor’s withdrawal from an international nuclear collaboration.

apple.news

Yet the UK called on Chinese expertise to build its newest nuclear power plant

Why does the UK need China to build its nuclear plants?

Chancellor George Osborne is keen on getting Chinese help. Why?

www.bbc.com

If aus were to go nuclear, quite possible the expertise would come from China or India

Ten years ago before Xi started taking China backwards as a trustworthy partner. The CCP controlled industry partner has also turned out to be a disaster in terms of cost and schedule so clearly the lesson is not to use CCP expertise. Of course, the dumber decision is build nuclear plants in the first place

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[QuietB]

I think we need nuclear powered mega utes

They are getting so big they will need nuclear powered engines soon just to reach freeway speed limits.

 

[QuietB]

Ten years ago before Xi started taking China backwards as a trustworthy partner. The CCP controlled industry partner has also turned out to be a disaster in terms of cost and schedule so clearly the lesson is not to use CCP expertise. Of course, the dumber decision is build nuclear plants in the first place

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

China and Russia are the only nations that have commenced new nuclear plants in the last 5 years.

Choose your poison

They report solar as if its the be all and end all. As if you can compare the GW Solar capacity to that of fuel.
I even said its a good thing but its shonky reporting.
Batteries cost way way more than solar.

There are batteries everywhere. Every single car in Australia could have a 40kW battery in it - that is 3 times the size of a Tesla Powerwall.

The issue is government policy. Only governments can coordinate this transition.

I wonder who is going to block that?

Oligarchs are running the whole show and it is obviously woke as **** to oppose them.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

China and Russia are the only nations that have commenced new nuclear plants in the last 5 years.

Choose your poison

There are batteries everywhere. Every single car in Australia could have a 40kW battery in it - that is 3 times the size of a Tesla Powerwall.

The issue is government policy. Only governments can coordinate this transition.

I wonder who is going to block that?

Oligarchs are running the whole show and it is obviously woke as **** to oppose them.

I don't think you realise the pure scale needed to keep industry running.
I work in a very very tiny factory. A Powerwall would give us 10 minutes.

El Dabaa Nuclear Power Plant - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hinkley C2 in the UK started in 2019. ( C1 is capable of running as a stand alone reactor/power plant ).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkuyu_Nuclear_Power_Plant
Has three units with construction started in the last 4 years.

Finland are due to start construction on their Small Nuclear Reactor next year.
The Netherlands are planning two large reactors.

Most countries that use Nuclear energy don't start building a new one every year, but there are still plenty being planned.


There ARE some on hold in Japan, Brazil, and Ukraine. ( Ukraine probably would have started in 2022 if it wasn't rudely interrupted ).

 

[nut]

I don't think you realise the pure scale needed to keep industry running.
I work in a very very tiny factory. A Powerwall would give us 10 minutes.

Currently 220,000 EVs in AUS.
The Electric Vehicle Council (EVC) projects that Australia will have one million electric vehicles (EVs) on the road by 2027.

Let’s say half of those are connected to grid at any one time… how’s that for scale?
Not to mention snowy 2 and large scale batteries.

 

[QuietB]

Currently 220,000 EVs in AUS.
The Electric Vehicle Council (EVC) projects that Australia will have one million electric vehicles (EVs) on the road by 2027.

Let’s say half of those are connected to grid at any one time… how’s that for scale?
Not to mention snowy 2 and large scale batteries.

• There are 20.14 million registered cars in Australia
• And Australia is a country that is forecast to produce zero oil within the next 6 years. Zero - therefore Australia is a country that has zero energy security when it comes to oil.
• Instability in the Middle East is rising
• Instability in the Indo-Pacific is rising
• Australia is a country with no nuclear industry worth talking about
• So Australia chooses oil and nuclear

You cannot make this shit up.

 

[nut]

• There are 20.14 million registered cars in Australia
• And Australia is a country that is forecast to produce zero oil within the next 6 years. Zero - therefore Australia is a country that has zero energy security when it comes to oil.
• Instability in the Middle East is rising
• Instability in the Indo-Pacific is rising
• Australia is a country with no nuclear industry worth talking about
• So Australia chooses oil and nuclear

You cannot make this shit up.

Also the first Large scale battery in the world was in SA … only 6 years ago.. the advancements since then is massive… imagine the technology available in 12 years when nuclear would just about to be finished.

Coal will be dead within 5 years, and the gas generators will be sitting idle for 360 days of the year.

The next election is the most important election in this countries history..

China apparently has hit peak oil and coal.

It’s all happening faster than predicted

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Currently 220,000 EVs in AUS.
The Electric Vehicle Council (EVC) projects that Australia will have one million electric vehicles (EVs) on the road by 2027.

Let’s say half of those are connected to grid at any one time… how’s that for scale?
Not to mention snowy 2 and large scale batteries.

Snowy 2 is massive, agree on that one.

If i have an EV , I think i'd be wanting to charge it during the times of highest use.
The worst demand situation is pretty much dusk on a day with little wind.
( People going home and turning the Aircon and lights and ovens on ).

A LOT of people get home shortly before that. Where i work now , i'm not able to charge during the day.
If my work was to install 10 chargers, for it to be renewable, they'd need something like 200KW of Solar Panels and a major upgrade to the electric infrastructure. They'd be so impressed if they found out i was taking it home to sell to the grid.
A bit like siphoning the petrol from a company car to sell to the neighbours.

So a lot of cars would be able to help supply Electricity at dusk during shortage conditions, but then they'd need to recharge afterwards when there is less demand.
Except, in bulk, they are creating demand, and if there isn't enough grid based battery to get through the peak time, there sure as hell isn't enough to charge all the batteries they just depleted, so they switch on the Coal.

If you work at Night, don't drive far, and are home with your solar during the day , it works.

Otherwise you need to have your whole lifestyle focused on filling your car with cheap or free electricity, then selling it back to the grid.

: Free charging at Supermarkets, none of the free ones have fast charging, even in Europe i think. Most of the supermarkets are going away from free charging. Can imagine waiting for a charger at a shopping centre and the car on the owner sits there fully charged because the owner is in the hairdressers.

: Free charging at the workplace will be limited.

German Highway EV Charging Rates: Insights | Cardino

Discover the German electric car landscape, including charging costs, key providers, and comparisons with conventional vehicles on the autobahn.

www.cardino.de

Factors Influencing Charging Rates​

Several variables impact the cost of charging an EV, including the price of electricity, the type of charging station, and the speed at which the vehicle charges. The cost of electricity can be particularly volatile, with the current price for electricity in Germany standing at around €0.47 cents per kWh, according to data from Verivox. This figure has seen a notable increase over the course of 2022-2023.

To charge your EV for 100 kilometres of the road will cost from 4.77 to 6.68 euros (AC charging) and up to 10.77 euros (DC charging). By comparison, the same amount of household electricity costs 4.48 euros. This means that for EV owners, electricity at the charging station costs up to 140% more than charging at home.

This significant cost differential underpins the importance of understanding and strategically navigating the EV charging landscape in Germany.

 

[QuietB]

Snowy 2 is massive, agree on that one.

If i have an EV , I think i'd be wanting to charge it during the times of highest use.
The worst demand situation is pretty much dusk on a day with little wind.
( People going home and turning the Aircon and lights and ovens on ).

A LOT of people get home shortly before that. Where i work now , i'm not able to charge during the day.
If my work was to install 10 chargers, for it to be renewable, they'd need something like 200KW of Solar Panels and a major upgrade to the electric infrastructure. They'd be so impressed if they found out i was taking it home to sell to the grid.
A bit like siphoning the petrol from a company car to sell to the neighbours.

So a lot of cars would be able to help supply Electricity at dusk during shortage conditions, but then they'd need to recharge afterwards when there is less demand.
Except, in bulk, they are creating demand, and if there isn't enough grid based battery to get through the peak time, there sure as hell isn't enough to charge all the batteries they just depleted, so they switch on the Coal.

If you work at Night, don't drive far, and are home with your solar during the day , it works.

Otherwise you need to have your whole lifestyle focused on filling your car with cheap or free electricity, then selling it back to the grid.

: Free charging at Supermarkets, none of the free ones have fast charging, even in Europe i think. Most of the supermarkets are going away from free charging. Can imagine waiting for a charger at a shopping centre and the car on the owner sits there fully charged because the owner is in the hairdressers.

: Free charging at the workplace will be limited.

German Highway EV Charging Rates: Insights | Cardino

Discover the German electric car landscape, including charging costs, key providers, and comparisons with conventional vehicles on the autobahn.

www.cardino.de

Factors Influencing Charging Rates​

Several variables impact the cost of charging an EV, including the price of electricity, the type of charging station, and the speed at which the vehicle charges. The cost of electricity can be particularly volatile, with the current price for electricity in Germany standing at around €0.47 cents per kWh, according to data from Verivox. This figure has seen a notable increase over the course of 2022-2023.

To charge your EV for 100 kilometres of the road will cost from 4.77 to 6.68 euros (AC charging) and up to 10.77 euros (DC charging). By comparison, the same amount of household electricity costs 4.48 euros. This means that for EV owners, electricity at the charging station costs up to 140% more than charging at home.

This significant cost differential underpins the importance of understanding and strategically navigating the EV charging landscape in Germany.

My understanding is this - I am no expert but this is what I understand;

1. You do not need to generate the energy you use to charge your car during the day - anyone can generate the energy. You need to connect to the grid and store the excess energy in the grid - ie. use the excess energy someone else is creating to charge your battery.
2. There would likely be a market for this. There is no reason why you should get it for free. Your company might choose to pay for it - or you might have to pay for it.
3. The costs in this market would be variable - when there is lots of excess charging is cheap, when there is not excess energy will be expensive - then use your battery. There may even be mechanisms for you to sell your battery energy and make a profit.
4. A car battery is big enough to run a typical house for 2.5 days.
5. A typical house has more than one car.
6. For typical city driving people only charge once a week - they barely use the battery at all.

It is not the only answer but it could absolutely be part of the solution.

There are certainly problems - the biggest seems to be that there needs to be a mechanism where you can change batteries in these cars.

But for cities with limited driving it makes sense. We have encouraged consumers to do the generation with roof top solar, let's encourage them to do the storage as well.

Of course this is all way too democratic for the oligarchs.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

My understanding is this - I am no expert but this is what I understand;

1. You do not need to generate the energy you use to charge your car during the day - anyone can generate the energy. You need to connect to the grid and store the excess energy in the grid - ie. use the excess energy someone else is creating to charge your battery.
2. There would likely be a market for this. There is no reason why you should get it for free. Your company might choose to pay for it - or you might have to pay for it.
3. The costs in this market would be variable - when there is lots of excess charging is cheap, when there is not excess energy will be expensive - then use your battery. There may even be mechanisms for you to sell your battery energy and make a profit.
4. A car battery is big enough to run a typical house for 2.5 days.
5. A typical house has more than one car.
6. For typical city driving people only charge once a week - they barely use the battery at all.

It is not the only answer but it could absolutely be part of the solution.

There are certainly problems - the biggest seems to be that there needs to be a mechanism where you can change batteries in these cars.

But for cities with limited driving it makes sense. We have encouraged consumers to do the generation with roof top solar, let's encourage them to do the storage as well.

Of course this is all way too democratic for the oligarchs.

Electricity can't be cheap, free, nor can consumers (as a majority) make a profit. At the end of the day, there is a massive cost that has to be paid by the consumer.

Nuclear was supposed to be too cheap to meter. So I can't help feel we've heard this before with regard to renewables.