The Official 2024/25 NBA Week One Thread

[Son of Skeletor]

Can I get my flowers btw for calling the T-Wolves trading KAT because they wont commit to paying his salary now McDaniels/Reid are tied down to big deals? I called that shit 12 months ago to the letter

Eh, that's not really a thing.

Leaving aside the ownership dispute complications, you could just as easily say that them trading for Gobert two years ago 'caused' the Wolves to trade KAT.

It's not a direct line to them re-signing McDaniels or Reid and their trading KAT.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Eh, that's not really a thing.

Leaving aside the ownership dispute complications, you could just as easily say that them trading for Gobert two years ago 'caused' the Wolves to trade KAT.

It's not a direct line to them re-signing McDaniels or Reid and their trading KAT.

I said both to be fair. I was pretty clear that the 3 moves combined would mean the end for KAT and well it did.

My issue was more with Gobert signing then McDaniels/Reid also. Was way too much money/draft capital spent on a player whose got too many flaws and wasnt a good fit. If T-Wolves just didnt bother and drafted Kessler which Utah did with one of the picks you gave them, team would be 10x better off in most aspects

 

[Son of Skeletor]

I said both to be fair. I was pretty clear that the 3 moves combined would mean the end for KAT and well it did.

My issue was more with Gobert signing then McDaniels/Reid also. Was way too much money/draft capital spent on a player whose got too many flaws and wasnt a good fit. If T-Wolves just didnt bother and drafted Kessler which Utah did with one of the picks you gave them, team would be 10x better off in most aspects

I don't think there's any universe where the Wolves re-signing Naz for $14 mil per season is either a mistake, or the cause of breaking up the core. That's just asset management. You don't let talent walk away for a contract that small.

It's really not an either/or scenario though. The Wolves re-signing Naz and McDaniels didn't prohibit them from re-signing Gobert to an extension, didn't prohibit them from signing Conley to a very reasonable extension, and didn't prohibit them for trading for Rob Dillingham at the draft. They could - and did, with the exception of the Gobert extension - accomplish all that with KAT still on the roster.

All those contracts did was make them a luxury tax payer, and give them second apron restrictions, limiting their ability to use the taxpayer exception or make certain kinds of trades, neither of which I think they would have done anyway. In real terms, the cost of signing all those contracts was losing Kyle Anderson, which is what I suspected it would be.

In the short term they're still a second apron, luxury tax team. They only saved $6mil in salary for this season, which isn't enough to put them under either line. Longer term they'll have a bit more flexibility, but again you could just as easily argue that the Gobert trade is responsible for that question.

 

[burge13]

Can we create a MJ v LBJ thread so people can bitch for pages in end there instead of here?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I don't think there's any universe where the Wolves re-signing Naz for $14 mil per season is either a mistake, or the cause of breaking up the core. That's just asset management. You don't let talent walk away for a contract that small.

It's really not an either/or scenario though. The Wolves re-signing Naz and McDaniels didn't prohibit them from re-signing Gobert to an extension, didn't prohibit them from signing Conley to a very reasonable extension, and didn't prohibit them for trading for Rob Dillingham at the draft. They could - and did, with the exception of the Gobert extension - accomplish all that with KAT still on the roster.

All those contracts did was make them a luxury tax payer, and give them second apron restrictions, limiting their ability to use the taxpayer exception or make certain kinds of trades, neither of which I think they would have done anyway. In real terms, the cost of signing all those contracts was losing Kyle Anderson, which is what I suspected it would be.

In the short term they're still a second apron, luxury tax team. They only saved $6mil in salary for this season, which isn't enough to put them under either line. Longer term they'll have a bit more flexibility, but again you could just as easily argue that the Gobert trade is responsible for that question.

T-Wolves issue was the repeater tax. Randles contract ends earlier and can be dumped in a trade too. I think Reids gone next year anyway. He will decline and target 30 mil+ and get it (Hartenstein got it so Reid 100% will). I dont think they will push to 205 mill again next year unless they really look like a fingernail away from the title.

Its a either or scenario for sure. T-Wolves couldnt afford all 3 moves they made. 1 of the 3 had to go and it did. In order I wouldnt have bothered with Gobert. Once they did I think they should have signed and traded both McDaniels/Reid for picks + expiring deals to then keep KAT . Last move would have been to trade KAT. I think its a terrible mistake.

The biggest craptalk I got was that none of these moves would impact keeping KAT and they could keep the team together. They didnt. I want my flowers

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Can we create a MJ v LBJ thread so people can bitch for pages in end there instead of here?

A LBJ bitch thread in general would help. Could be the biggest thread on the entire board however

 

[Son of Skeletor]

T-Wolves issue was the repeater tax. Randles contract ends earlier and can be dumped in a trade too. I think Reids gone next year anyway. He will decline and target 30 mil+ and get it (Hartenstein got it so Reid 100% will). I dont think they will push to 205 mill again next year unless they really look like a fingernail away from the title.

This just makes them a worse team though, as would have declining to sign their young talent.

Its a either or scenario for sure. T-Wolves couldnt afford all 3 moves they made. 1 of the 3 had to go and it did. In order I wouldnt have bothered with Gobert. Once they did I think they should have signed and traded both McDaniels/Reid for picks + expiring deals to then keep KAT . Last move would have been to trade KAT. I think its a terrible mistake.

The Gobert one is the one that accelerated their timeline though. They traded 4 players and 5 first round picks for him, including Kessler. That's what puts you in a tough spot with no flexibility, adding a third max contract with positional overlap.

Take that out, and Conley aside they'd have a bunch of dudes in their 20s, minimal cap problems and lots of assets in the bank.

The biggest craptalk I got was that none of these moves would impact keeping KAT and they could keep the team together. They didnt. I want my flowers

From memory the gist of your message was that it was a massive mistake to re-sign either Naz or McDaniels. That hasn't been borne out or proven at all. Technically it hasn't even been proven that the Wolves are a worse team without KAT.

The part of the puzzle you're missing is that having traded out all those picks for Gobert, they can't afford to let talent like McDaniels and Naz walk when they strike gold late in the draft. Not to mention the problem with fan engagement if you let a cult hero like Naz walk for as little as $14 mil per.

If there has been a mistake in Minny - and that's subjective at the moment - it was trying to speed up contention by trading so much for a player in Gobert with questionable fit. Re-signing their own talent barely even enters into it, and I doubt you'd find many Wolves fans who'd make that direct connection. Can ask Dannnnnnnnnn

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

This just makes them a worse team though, as would have declining to sign their young talent.



The Gobert one is the one that accelerated their timeline though. They traded 4 players and 5 first round picks for him, including Kessler. That's what puts you in a tough spot with no flexibility, adding a third max contract with positional overlap.

Take that out, and Conley aside they'd have a bunch of dudes in their 20s, minimal cap problems and lots of assets in the bank.



From memory the gist of your message was that it was a massive mistake to re-sign either Naz or McDaniels. That hasn't been borne out or proven at all. Technically it hasn't even been proven that the Wolves are a worse team without KAT.

The part of the puzzle you're missing is that having traded out all those picks for Gobert, they can't afford to let talent like McDaniels and Naz walk when they strike gold late in the draft. Not to mention the problem with fan engagement if you let a cult hero like Naz walk for as little as $14 mil per.

If there has been a mistake in Minny - and that's subjective at the moment - it was trying to speed up contention by trading so much for a player in Gobert with questionable fit. Re-signing their own talent barely even enters into it, and I doubt you'd find many Wolves fans who'd make that direct connection. Can ask Dannnnnnnnnn

Gobert was the biggest issue 100%. Its 95% of the issue. I dont think McDaniels was worth what he was moreso then Reid. Its McDaniels who probably gets traded in my scenario to get assets back that was lost in that Gobert deal

Team is and was young enough to be more patient then chucking in a overrated C who made the 2nd best player on their team poorer for it. Right now they are in a terrible position due to a combination of the 2 moves. Gobert killed the nbalamnce of the team and keeping McDaniels/Reid just destroyed the salary cap thereafter.

 

[burge13]

The Gobert extension, other than saving a little money next season, is weird. He's surely proven by now you can't win with him?

 

[DangerSloane]

Does this GoEagles bloke really think that Lebron's shoes arent made in the same sweat shops?

I've heard of naive but this is next level.

 

[tigs2010]

We are going to suck ass.

Wonder how long till Jimmy forces his way out

 

[burge13]

Highest scoring father/son duos (the Bronny haters will be big mad)

3. Steph/Dell = 36,338
2. Kobe/Joe = 38,895
1. LBJ/Bronny = 40,490

 

[DT_35]

Wiseman torn Achilles, damn man

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Does this GoEagles bloke really think that Lebron's shoes arent made in the same sweat shops?

I've heard of naive but this is next level.

They arnt. It isnt 1 giant building at all. Shoe manufacturing split between like 6 different Chinese provinces. It depends on the one you choose the standard of not only the shoe itself, but employee conditions and machinery used. I mean you dont believe Nike and KMart make shoes in the same conditions surely?

Nike too made pretty big progress in the child labour situation since 2006 when all this came out. Its very well known MJ took a massive hands on approach to his brand, like he does everything so was well aware of the working conditions since he had toured and chosen the facility.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Wiseman torn Achilles, damn man

It was odd since the media said torn calf when he went down to the rooms but then to me it 100% looked a torn achilles without any 1 bit of doubt when I saw it

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

We are going to suck ass.

Wonder how long till Jimmy forces his way out

Hmm should be mutual if you ask me. I could see him going to OKC and joining a smaller team to go for the title

 

[burge13]

Hmm should be mutual if you ask me. I could see him going to OKC and joining a smaller team to go for the title

Absolutely no chance

He will go wherever offers him a max. Jimmy doesn't give 2 ****s about winning compared to his wallet

 

[Cyber_punk]

-

Close game at half time but third quarter Mavs decided to stop playing with the sperms

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Gobert was the biggest issue 100%. Its 95% of the issue. I dont think McDaniels was worth what he was moreso then Reid. Its McDaniels who probably gets traded in my scenario to get assets back that was lost in that Gobert deal

The bolded is fine, and more than fair to debate in isolation. It's just a completely different kettle of fish to draw a direct causal relation between that and KAT being traded.

It's certainly arguable that McDaniels might be more of an $18-20 mil kinda guy rather than $25 mil, but that's a matter of degrees. Minny were $20 mil over the second apron before they traded KAT, and they're still $15 mil over the apron, so short of letting both McDaniels and Naz walk for nothing, they'd be a luxury tax/apron team regardless. McDaniels could've taken a deal for half what he did and they'd have still been a second apron team.

At least this way they still control some assets and can make trades accordingly. I'd rather have (A) Randle, DDV, Naz, McDaniels and Detroit's first than (B) KAT plus nothing more than the possibility of using the mid level exception.

Of course I'd much rather have (A) KAT + McDaniels + Naz, plus Kessler plus multiple first round picks than (B) Gobert, and we're in agreeance there.

Team is and was young enough to be more patient then chucking in a overrated C who made the 2nd best player on their team poorer for it. Right now they are in a terrible position due to a combination of the 2 moves. Gobert killed the nbalamnce of the team and keeping McDaniels/Reid just destroyed the salary cap thereafter.

I dunno about terrible position, they did win 56 games and knocked off the defending champs in the playoffs.

The Gobert trade just left them handcuffed in terms of not being able to replace any talent they might lose. It sucks to lose KAT, but it's not demonstrable (yet) that they made the wrong decision to sacrifice him to keep the rest of the core together. It's possible that they may have chosen the better path, albeit of two problematic solutions.

Sometimes teams do have to make tough decisions on letting players go. The Pels faced that same situation this offseason. It sucked losing Naji Marshall for nothing, after putting years of development into him. However we couldn't possibly justify extending Herb AND Trey AND Naji. We've made many roster building missteps, but this particular decision is one where the fans understand 'OK, we have to let that one go'. Three wings in a similar age bracket is too many to pay long term.

Re Minny, their problem was they traded for a max player who played the same position as one of their two main guys. It put them in an unnecessary position where they may have to choose between losing young, core guys regardless. And even then, strictly speaking, they didn't have to break up that team - at least not right now.

 

[Cyber_punk]

--

Just the lazy six 3 pointers on debut for Thompson as a mav

 

[AJ_2000]

Highest scoring father/son duos (the Bronny haters will be big mad)

3. Steph/Dell = 36,338
2. Kobe/Joe = 38,895
1. LBJ/Bronny = 40,490

 

[DangerSloane]

They arnt. It isnt 1 giant building at all. Shoe manufacturing split between like 6 different Chinese provinces. It depends on the one you choose the standard of not only the shoe itself, but employee conditions and machinery used. I mean you dont believe Nike and KMart make shoes in the same conditions surely?

Nike too made pretty big progress in the child labour situation since 2006 when all this came out. Its very well known MJ took a massive hands on approach to his brand, like he does everything so was well aware of the working conditions since he had toured and chosen the facility.

Might not be one big factory but it may as well be.
Theyre made in China, with the same pathetic labour laws as the next warehouse/factory. What province they're in makes little to no difference.

Stop kissing Lebron's ass, he is no better than Jordan and is 99.9% only interested in growing his and his family's wealth.
He gives no f**ks about whether his shoes are made by children.

 

[DT_35]

A starting 5 that consists of 3 poor defenders and 2 poor shooters aint gonna cut it.

 

[Nicho50]

Randle turning it on.

 

[Memphis]

We are going to suck ass.

Wonder how long till Jimmy forces his way out

His contracts up next season isn't it? Or does he have a player option?