2nds The pressures and demands of being an AFL footballer in South Australia.

[cmndstab]

Yes, as has been established, Dangerfield's two games in 2008 are a bad example.

Perhaps Sloane or Otten are better examples. Both came in and played 1-2 games in their first season, then were dropped and not considered until the following year.

Both of them went on to have fantastic years so I guess they're examples of where it works. Presumably there are similar examples of where it has failed?

 

[cmndstab]

We would need to be prepared to off-load some of our twenty something mid-rangers in order to gain some trade currency. The ones with some value are Jenkins, Wright, Mackay, Otten, Douglas, Henderson. Would we be prepared to shop these guys around? I have my doubts.

I'm not against this as such, but the problem at the moment is that if we get rid of our twenty something mid-rangers, we're left without the core of our side. Take Jenkins out of our side and we have either McKernan or Graham rucking. Take Wright out of our side and we have Riley in playing inside mid. Take Douglas or Mackay out of the side and we're bringing in Martin or Lyons. Take Henderson out of the side and we're bringing in L. Thompson or Johnston.

The only replacements we have for those mid-range players are kids who haven't had much of a go. You can put up a fair argument about whether that should be the case, but as it stands at the moment, it is the case. If we shop them around to get a couple of diamonds to plug our holes, we will end up asking our depth to pick up more slack than I think they can handle.

Of course, this problem goes away if we manage to establish the likes of Kerridge/Lyons/Johnston in the side by the end of the season.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Countless examples.

Douglas burst onto the scene in SA. Kicked 8 goals in a game for Glenelg in his first year IIRC. Found it very difficult to get games early despite SANFL form. When he did it was as a small forward - no midfield time for a first round midfielder we'd selected.

Finally in his 3rd season played midfield in a NAB Cup game vs West Coast (Kerr, Judd, Cousins). Got close to 30 touches. Did not play a millisecond of midfield time that season.

Took him until his 5th season to get a start in the midfield. We had a terrible year though he did well and won our B&F. The player we saw in the first season or two on the list that looked like he would become a gun is instead maybe our 6th or 7th best midfielder.

If Douglas had been ushered into the teams and the midfield rotation early and got to learn alongside Goodwin, Edwards, Thompson and McLeod right from Day 1 we would have a player. Instead it was more important for Reilly, Shirley and Doughty to chalk up games.

So, we achieved nothing because players like Reilly, Doughty and Shirley were so ordinary. And in their wake we have created another batch of ordinary players to replace them.

The circle is complete.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I'm not against this as such, but the problem at the moment is that if we get rid of our twenty something mid-rangers, we're left without the core of our side. Take Jenkins out of our side and we have either McKernan or Graham rucking. Take Wright out of our side and we have Riley in playing inside mid. Take Douglas or Mackay out of the side and we're bringing in Martin or Lyons. Take Henderson out of the side and we're bringing in L. Thompson or Johnston.

The only replacements we have for those mid-range players are kids who haven't had much of a go. You can put up a fair argument about whether that should be the case, but as it stands at the moment, it is the case. If we shop them around to get a couple of diamonds to plug our holes, we will end up asking our depth to pick up more slack than I think they can handle.

Of course, this problem goes away if we manage to establish the likes of Kerridge/Lyons/Johnston in the side by the end of the season.

The replacements would be the players we replace them with

 

[cmndstab]

The replacements would be the players we replace them with

Assuming we're going to bring in quality, we're going to end up with less replacements than the number of players we replace. Somewhere a hole is going to open up and unless we have the depth to fill it, we're just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[AFC979810]

All good. I think your hypothesis has a certain amount of validity and bears testing. It's just that Dangerfield is not a good example.

Brodie Martin, on the other hand, is a classic example...

How is Martin a classic example.

Given 2 games in 2009 as a 20 year old (does ACL in 2nd game) out for a year.

Given 2 games in 2010 the next year and does well in rd 22.

Given 4 consecutive games in 2011 from rds 3 - 6. Was dropped after a poor performance in rd 6 and comes back in for the last game of the season.

Given 2 games to start 2013 before being dropped for Lyons. Comes in for 5 straight games and then injures hamstring.

Martin has been given plenty of opportunities at this club. He is now a 24 year old player who has played 17 games since he was picked up 5 years ago in the 2008 rookie draft. We need to draw a line right through him.

 

[Jars458]

Doughty was not ordinary.

 

[craig crowing]

If Doughty not ordinary then that strengthens argument as he struggled for years to get a go .
You have to find those players with talent and give a go and understand those that continue to stuff up or have spasmodic good games have to earn there spot in or in SANFL to get back .
We have our backs to wall in near future with thanks to Tippett -- Trigg duo but the positive their are young players really week in week out showing they deserve a go. Lets give them a decent go .
We have our head in the wrong places if we think that team we put on the park on Sunday is going to get us anywhere top 4 .
Look how Jenkins improving even with the worst entries into forwards I have seen for years , because getting a go .
He might slip back 1 week but long term we will benefit as we will with Crouch -- Brown and did with Smith and probably would with Lyons -Kerridge and Johnston and Lynch. Even Tambling might have surprised us if really gave him a go.
Lets face it could not do any more turnovers than Vince - Rielly - Douglas etc.

 

[Glenno23]

How many games is the right number?

Do we say, here's 10 games you'll play before getting dropped? Do we even tell them they are no chance to be dropped?

I 100% agree there needs to be more continuity in their first lot of games. The issue we have right now is Lyons may ask for a trade and we may not get his full value due to him being an unknown quantity, when we could have easily given him a run of 5-10 games and see if he's up to it

Right now, we have no idea if he'll make an AFL footballer

I'm really hoping this week sees some young players come in, especially after what Truck had to say in his presser

 

[jenny61_99]

Is that why it was only two games? I stand corrected.

I wonder what would have happened if he was B.O.G those two weeks. Would have been hard to drop him.

There was not a lot to gain from playing him those two weeks.

Not a lot for us, but an enormous amount for him. Got him to see what was required of him to play at this level. Invaluable - stuff that a pre-season in the magoos couldn't prepare you for.

 

[Vader]

How is Martin a classic example.

Given 2 games in 2009 as a 20 year old (does ACL in 2nd game) out for a year.

Given 2 games in 2010 the next year and does well in rd 22.

Given 4 consecutive games in 2011 from rds 3 - 6. Was dropped after a poor performance in rd 6 and comes back in for the last game of the season.

Given 2 games to start 2013 before being dropped for Lyons. Comes in for 5 straight games and then injures hamstring.

Martin has been given plenty of opportunities at this club. He is now a 24 year old player who has played 17 games since he was picked up 5 years ago in the 2008 rookie draft. We need to draw a line right through him.

I've been saying that for 18 months.

 

[Vader]

Yes, as has been established, Dangerfield's two games in 2008 are a bad example.

Perhaps Sloane or Otten are better examples. Both came in and played 1-2 games in their first season, then were dropped and not considered until the following year.

Both of them went on to have fantastic years so I guess they're examples of where it works. Presumably there are similar examples of where it has failed?

I wouldn't even use Sloane or Otten as an example. I don't see anything wrong with players only getting 1-2 games in their first year. I believe these games are not so much about the player showing what he's got, as exposing the player to footy at the senior level. It's when this pattern continues later in their development that I think there's an issue.

** From memory Otten was injured for most of his first year anyway, rarely playing at SANFL level, let alone AFL. The fact that he came straight into the senior team and thrived in only his second year was a massive surprise (and a very pleasant one at that).

Carl's example of Douglas' development is a much better case study.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Not a lot for us, but an enormous amount for him. Got him to see what was required of him to play at this level. Invaluable - stuff that a pre-season in the magoos couldn't prepare you for.

Yeah, I didn't realise the school holidays thing. My bad.

We also had to withstand a lot of flak that year as Brad Ebert and Cyril Rioli played some really good footy while Dangerfield was still finishing school.

A brave decision but another pearler from Rendell.

 

[jenny61_99]

Yeah, I didn't realise the school holidays thing. My bad.

We also had to withstand a lot of flak that year as Brad Ebert and Cyril Rioli played some really good footy while Dangerfield was still finishing school.

A brave decision but another pearler from Rendell.

I think Hamish Ogilvie first pointed him out to Rendell.

 

[cmndstab]

** From memory Otten was injured for most of his first year anyway, rarely playing at SANFL level, let alone AFL. The fact that he came straight into the senior team and thrived in only his second year was a massive surprise (and a very pleasant one at that).

Think your memory is a bit flawed there mate. Otten played nearly 20 league games in his first season, and kept registering 20+ possessions in the midfield. He wasn't just given a game for fun - he well and truly earned his spot. Unfortunately he played like complete junk in his first two games and was dropped, going back to play excellent SANFL footy again.

I agree that it was a good thing for him though - it exposed him to the level required and in the following season he came in to round 1 looking like a ten year veteran.

 

[Sanders]

I think Hamish Ogilvie first pointed him out to Rendell.

Who made the decision?

 

[jenny61_99]

Who made the decision?

Neil Craig.

 

[jackster83]

Neil Craig.

Does that mean we can blame Craig for Jarrhan Jacky and Myke Cook?

 

[cmndstab]

Rendell made the decision, of course.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Assuming we're going to bring in quality, we're going to end up with less replacements than the number of players we replace. Somewhere a hole is going to open up and unless we have the depth to fill it, we're just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Our current "strength" is that players 15-35 are quite even.

And if you're right no one would ever trade.

 

[Vader]

Think your memory is a bit flawed there mate. Otten played nearly 20 league games in his first season, and kept registering 20+ possessions in the midfield. He wasn't just given a game for fun - he well and truly earned his spot. Unfortunately he played like complete junk in his first two games and was dropped, going back to play excellent SANFL footy again.

I agree that it was a good thing for him though - it exposed him to the level required and in the following season he came in to round 1 looking like a ten year veteran.

Who am I thinking of then? Aahhh.. David Mackay.

 

[Geoffa32]

Brodie Smith,Luke Brown and Crouch are pretty much in our "best 22" now.

This is three guys that wontbe racking up games in the SANFL waiting.

The issue is that our best SANFL performers are mids. Our midfild is quite good.

However there could be more injection of youth with regards to waning form of guys like Reilly, Stiffy, Vince and even Mackay.

This where guys like Lyons, Lynch, Johston, Riley Grigg etc need to be given a go and not just a token game but a block of games.

 

[cmndstab]

Carl - often clubs have a surplus in one position. In that situation it makes a lot of sense to trade. Hell, it was that same rationale that saw us trade out Maric.

Unfortunately most of our mid-tier players are only playing because there aren't any other proven AFL players below them. They're not areas of surplus. I do not agree at all that our 35th best player is even close to our 15th best player. This is perhaps a reflection of how they have been used to date rather than their quality, but that's a separate debate.

Who am I thinking of then? Aahhh.. David Mackay.

Mackay it is. He was injured for most of his first season.

 

[AFC979810]

Our current "strength" is that players 15-35 are quite even.

And if you're right no one would ever trade.

You talk so much bullshit.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

You talk so much bullshit.

Fill me in please champ.

Because oue depth has been discussed at length on here and heralded by all, including by Sando.