The race for the 2013 flag

[HBF]

Hawthorn for me, but they wouldn't want any more injuries to key players.
Although getting Cyril back in a few weeks will help.
Birchall is a massive out.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Hawthorn for me, but they wouldn't want any more injuries to key players.
Although getting Cyril back in a few weeks will help.
Birchall is a massive out.

Agree with that -he would have to be in their 3 or 4 most important players

Stating the obvious -but its nearly going to come down to -player availability(top players) of the top 5 or 6 teams

Take Carlton -a slim chance -but without Waite -no chance in hell .

 

[HBF]

Agree with that -he would have to be in their 3 or 4 most important players

Stating the obvious -but its nearly going to come down to -player availability(top players) of the top 5 or 6 teams

Take Carlton -a slim chance -but without Waite -no chance in hell .

We're NO chance at all this year. We'll be struggling just to play finals.
Hawthorn losing Suckling and now Birchall really does hurt their run out of defence.

 

[Roddy]

Instead of the AFL Grand Final they should be playing for the Trent Croad cup!

Or Croad/McPharlin Cup...

 

[Glasgow Hawk]

Not as long as the Hawks waited for theirs.

But according to some interstate teams supporters VFL flags don't count, only AFL flags.
So going on that logic, we won a flag in the second year of the AFL and then 17 years between flags. Freo are still waiting.

 

[hawkman]

Stating the obvious -but its nearly going to come down to -player availability(top players) of the top 5 or 6 teams.

Nearly always does. I can't remember the last team with more than a few injured players even contesting a GF

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Not sure where the 'Hawthorn has massively underachieved/choked' sentiment has come from. Gee, we've been overratted over the last 5 years.

At no stage have we been the dominant team in the competition. Prior to this year, we have occupied top spot for only 5 weeks over the last decade! (not counting the first couple of rounds as this depends entirely on who you play). This was rounds 9-11 in '08 (before we'd played Geelong who won 4 more games than us) and round 22/23 last year.

Taking a closer look,
In '08 - We had played finals for the first time in years the year prior and finished 4 games and 30% behind a dominant Geelong. Won the flag.
'09 and '10 - injury depleted and rubbish - not close to a dominant team.
'11 - Finsihed 3rd, having lost all five encounters with the two teams above us. Lost a Prelim narrowly to the minor premier who belted us during the year. At no stage were we any better than the 3rd best team.
'12- Grabbed top spot (by percentage) with a round to go, having beaten Sydney by a goal after they won easily early in the year. So even was the comp that we finished just 3 wins clear of 8th. Made the GF but lost narrowly to the team we had a 1-1 record against (and who was playing better in finals). On top for 2 rounds and only by percentage means not a dominant team.

A flag, runner up and prelim is about par given where Hawthorn have been at.

Compare this to Collingwood who in the last few years have exactly the same record; a premiership, runner up and prelim to their name. In 2011 alone, they were on top for 15 weeks, had the minor premiership wrapped up 2 weeks before the end of the season and posted a record percentage. They have been a dominant side and have exactly the same to show for their efforts as Hawthron yet no one talks about Collingwood underachieving in the same way they do Hawthorn. Seems strange (and a by product of the media and pundits overratting Hawthorn).

The Hawks are picked as favourites at the start of each season for good reason, they have a potent midfield and the best forward line in the competition. They are also the only team to beat Geelong in a grand final in recent history. With the list they have had from 2008 to now they could have easily won two flags and nearly did.

The difference between Collingwood is that we nearly went back to back but lost to Geelong in the grand final, something which most people saw as expected really given Geelong's dominance in recent years. But 2010-2011 Collingwood could have won two flags as well. I won't compare 2012 and 2013 Collingwood because there have been too many changes to the side to compare them as the same team, but I am sure others will, so I guess you could say Hawthorn and Collingwood have broken even really. But because we lost to Geelong we don't cop as much judgement as the Hawks do for missing out on the grand final or losing to Sydney.

Also a key factor is that people don't want Collingwood to be favourites ever, so it is unlikely people will talk us up as underachievers because they don't want us to be good.

 

[greatgatsby]

But according to some interstate teams supporters VFL flags don't count, only AFL flags.
So going on that logic, we won a flag in the second year of the AFL and then 17 years between flags. Freo are still waiting.

Yep, and VFL clubs can have it both ways if they like! Doesn't concern us. Yes, it's been 18 years and we've paid our dues. BTW, personally I think Hawthorn's sustained excellence since 2008 merits a second flag, but we'll see how it goes.

 

[WWSD]

Yep, and VFL clubs can have it both ways if they like! Doesn't concern us. Yes, it's been 18 years and we've paid our dues. BTW, personally I think Hawthorn's sustained excellence since 2008 merits a second flag, but we'll see how it goes.

In my opinion I reckon this is the best position Fremantle have been in a long time. Sitting at 9-2-1 with games remaining the Dockers will start heavy favourites in just about all of them except perhaps this week. The return of Pavlich, Sandilands will only strengthen the Dockers outfit. New mature aged recruit Jack Hannath has been more then servicable in the ruck and up forward, more game time for Sutcliffe, Crozier has given Fremantle a bit more depth and Zac Clarke has been outstanding since coming in the side.

Improvements from Fyfe, De Boer, Clancee Pearce, Suban, Walters, Spurr, Ibbotson have only further strengthened Fremantle line up. Players like Johnson and Duffield are having career best seasons. On current form, the Dockers are a real chance for this years Flag.

 

[Emperor66669]

Freo vs Hawthorn GF ...

 

[maryjames]

It is Geelong's flag to lose.

Surely they will not choke two years in a row after Freo shafted them last year.

Why so hostile. Hawthorn are sitting pretty on top of the ladder and just can't lose. 2 GF losses in a row would be a tragic for the club. And for the AFL with Buddy's big move.

 

[Hodge is God]

Why so hostile. Hawthorn are sitting pretty on top of the ladder and just can't loss. 2 GF losses n a row would be a tragic for the club.

Hahaha, any one can lose.

Sydney and Geelong both lost last week, against teams sitting outside the eight.

Hawthorn are no where near the dominant team or anything like that, so don't be so stupid.

 

[JR78]

Hawks, Sydney or Freo. The Hawks can lose the midfield & inside 50's but still outscore anyone. Sydney's midfield depth is deep. Home final in the 1st week is crucial for Freo's chances.

Geelong's top 15 are class but they continually turn to their older champs to get them over the line. Not convinced with their kids yet.
Collingwood need a fit Dayne Beams for them to close the gap. The others are making up the numbers. Essendon are a year away from peaking.

 

[Cursed Cat]

This is what i don't understand about people, if you have a different opinion you are branded a troll? A dirty one at that. If you have a different opinion then state it with some thought and meaning behind it. My observation of Geelong last week and on performances against Gold Coast and GWS has led me to believe that on current form Geelong are the weak link in the 8. They now play the two top sides on form in successive weeks. If they are good enough to remain a top 4 team this year then they will win both matches and i will be proven wrong. I don't think they can! Fremantle will squeeze them tighter than a boa constrictor and starve them of opportunities to score and without Steve Johnson they are 3-4 goals worse off from the start. This will overflow into the Hawks game, call me what you like, but Geelong's entire season depends on this weeks result! No matter how you look at it, when you give up a 52 point lead to a team like Brisbane who are the 15th or 16th team at best then you have some serious problems. Chris Scott has his work cut out, Fremantle would have to be well off their game not to win this match.

I can understand your sense of dread given the past three performances Geelong have dialled in, but even if we lost to Freo and then Hawthorn it wouldn't cost us our season by any means - confidence and belief would no doubt be low, but there would still be plenty of time for the season to be redeemed - it's those three or so big games after the H&A season that counts, and the Cats have every chance of being among the pigeons again - who knows what will happen from there, it certainly ended with a bit of a whimper last year, but the team has done pretty well to cobble together a lazy 10 wins with a reasonably unsettled line-up and has put itself in a position to at least contend ..

 

[JackFlash]

I can understand your sense of dread given the past three performances Geelong have dialled in, but even if we lost to Freo and then Hawthorn it wouldn't cost us our season by any means - confidence and belief would no doubt be low, but there would still be plenty of time for the season to be redeemed - it's those three or so big games after the H&A season that counts, and the Cats have every chance of being among the pigeons again - who knows what will happen from there, it certainly ended with a bit of a whimper last year, but the team has done pretty well to cobble together a lazy 10 wins with a reasonably unsettled line-up and has put itself in a position to at least contend ..

Well, that's a sensible assessment. They have done well up until this point, what last weekends game exposed was Geelong's flattering position on the ladder, as the season reaches the business end we are decidedly lacking in many areas. Last week's problem was they took their opposition for granted and took them lightly, it was a smartarse approach to a game they should never have lost. They were like a boxer who wins the first 9 rounds of a prize fight, begins to showboat around only to get KO'd in the final round.
It is a season defining game against Fremantle and if Johnson was playing i would pick the Cats to win, but he isn't and they instantly lose 3-4 goals against a team that stifles scoring opportunities at the best of times. The Dockers also have it over Geelong psychologically, i'm beginning to think we have a few thick bricks playing for us? Then they have the Hawks who will most certainly break the drought this time. Coming off the bye with 3 straight losses with the Pies and Tigers breathing down your neck for 4th spot, then all i can see approaching round 22 is a battle for 6th or 7th and that means season gone! Last week was the most disappointing result since the 08 Grand Final and it will take several weeks to get over unless there is a dramatic change of mental application to the game. I expect a better effort this week, but just don't see them winning without Johnson. I hope i'm wrong.
Dockers 70
Cats 50
Dockers by 20 points

 

[Chewy]

A week or two ago, people were saying it would be a Geelong vs Sydney Grand Final. They both lost last weekend, so now it's a Hawthorn vs Fremantle Grand Final. What happens if both those teams lose this weekend? Will people be starting threads next week predicting an Essendon vs Collingwood Grand Final?

There is still 10 matches of the home & away season, plus 3 weekends of finals before we'll know the Grand Final combatants. Why can't people just enjoy the great contests we get every week? Must every game between the top sides be analysed for it's possible premiership ramifications?

Year after year after year, people fall into this same trap. It's like a race for people to get in first, so they can be the one who "called it". Invariably people's predictions are WRONG, so why bother? Why not just enjoy each game for what it is and take things one week at a time?

 

[Natho]

Geelong will regain vardy, chappy and rivers (probably more) they will be a big threat. Freo look like their going to be very hard to beat. Hawks are a great team aswell as the swans.

Freo v cats grandy

 

[Purple Suit]

A week or two ago, people were saying it would be a Geelong vs Sydney Grand Final. They both lost last weekend, so now it's a Hawthorn vs Fremantle Grand Final. What happens if both those teams lose this weekend? Will people be starting threads next week predicting an Essendon vs Collingwood Grand Final?

There is still 10 matches of the home & away season, plus 3 weekends of finals before we'll know the Grand Final combatants. Why can't people just enjoy the great contests we get every week? Must every game between the top sides be analysed for it's possible premiership ramifications?

Year after year after year, people fall into this same trap. It's like a race for people to get in first, so they can be the one who "called it". Invariably people's predictions are WRONG, so why bother? Why not just enjoy each game for what it is and take things one week at a time?

I'm not sure why people bother predicting. Why do people change teams?

 

[Cursed Cat]

Geelong will regain vardy, chappy and rivers (probably more) they will be a big threat. Freo look like their going to be very hard to beat. Hawks are a great team aswell as the swans.

Freo v cats grandy

reckon Varcoe will be our biggest inclusion when he gets the shoulder right ..

 

[JackFlash]

A week or two ago, people were saying it would be a Geelong vs Sydney Grand Final. They both lost last weekend, so now it's a Hawthorn vs Fremantle Grand Final. What happens if both those teams lose this weekend? Will people be starting threads next week predicting an Essendon vs Collingwood Grand Final?

There is still 10 matches of the home & away season, plus 3 weekends of finals before we'll know the Grand Final combatants. Why can't people just enjoy the great contests we get every week? Must every game between the top sides be analysed for it's possible premiership ramifications?

Year after year after year, people fall into this same trap. It's like a race for people to get in first, so they can be the one who "called it". Invariably people's predictions are WRONG, so why bother? Why not just enjoy each game for what it is and take things one week at a time?

I think that is largely due to the way both teams lost, the Swans looked completely out of kilter against Port and it will take time to make the Tippett adjustment, Geelong lost due to sheer arrogance and a smartarse attitude. Minus Steve Johnson Fremantle will give them a touch up as will the Hawks the following week, by that time Geelong could be out of the top 4! If they don't make top 4 then both teams can't make the GF. So yes, there could very well be talk of a Essendon V Collingwood Grand Final. But if the Hawks lose to Brisbane i'll carry Crawford across the nullarbor myself!

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Far too many Geelong supporters conceding the Hawthorn game.

 

[Proud SJW]

And what exactly have Fremantle achieved in their very short history?
Still waiting for that elusive premiership.

Oh for.... Look, you simpleton.

Hawthorn formed initially in 1873.
You joined the VFA in 1914 and got nowhere. You joined the VFL in 1925.
You first finals appearance (NOT the GF) was in 1957. That's 32 years after you joined the VFL.
And finally, finally, you got a premiership in 1961. After 36 years.

Now, I'm being exceedingly generous here by not including any of your pitiful performances in the VFA, or after club formation in this number, because it grows quite a bit when I do. I'm excluding this because when I get out a calculator and look at the historical performances of Fremantle in the WAFL, it looks even worse for you. And there's always the North/South argument there which makes it a bit more complicated. Point being here that Fremantle isn't quite the "franchise" club it's often claimed to be - in fact the only expansion club which can claim more direct history is probably Port Adelaide.

But overall, it seems to me that Fremantle is doing considerably better than Hawthorn did to this point.

There are some clubs who can use this "argument" with at least some level of smugness, but not Hawthorn. Learn some of the history of your own club, twit.

 

[Natho]

reckon Varcoe will be our biggest inclusion when he gets the shoulder right ..

Forgot about him. Will be a big in.

 

[Belnakor]

It is a season defining game against Fremantle and if Johnson was playing i would pick the Cats to win, but he isn't and they instantly lose 3-4 goals against a team that stifles scoring opportunities at the best of times. T

Freo will potentially have two of our best midfielders out (mundy, barlow) which will definately balance out stevie J