The So You Think Thread

[Gavin Excell]

Re: So You Think>>>>>>>>any horse any time EVER!!!

Heresy post is heretical*

*May or may not a word

But when this thread is in comparison to So You Think, whats with the 'ohh Sunline was just a MV specialist argument'? So You Think is most famous for his dual Cox wins....

Yes but has won group races now at Caulfield and Flemington

Already at start 11, one up on Sunline

 

[tige19]

I remember watching the 99 cox and thinking gee this thing from NZ is probably the best horse I'll ever see, I then remember Northerly blitzing her when she was at the ladder part of her days and thinking gee his probably one of the best I'll ever see, I then thought after the Divas 1st cup win she's goes alright but the year she didnthe Cox/Melb cup double I was sure she was the best thing I'll ever see and until SYT wins a Melb Cup and maybe another season were he can knock off the Doncaster and Caulfield Cup then I'll stick to my guns and still go with the mighty mare Makybe Dive.

One things for sure we've seen some brilliant horses go around and SYT is the horse of this generation.

 

[davis_756]

Re: So You Think>>>>>>>>any horse any time EVER!!!

Sunline was a champion mare I'll give you that but you have to weigh those 28 black type victories against the fact that a hell of a lot of them were in mares races or back in NZ.

She got found out a bit a few times in open company something which the Diva or SYT have never been found wanting in.

PS : I've always said that the best two horses I've seen in the past 25 years were Rubitoon and Might and Power. Rubiton because of the sheer quality it beat consistently and brilliantly and Might and Power just for how awesome its wins were. SYT has now gone past these two now IMO as it is combining the best qualities of both these champions.

She took off from 600m out and it was race over, no other horses did that before or after her. She was as close to unbeatable as we have had, name another horse to go close to having the amount of wins she did?

I am not saying shes the greatest of them all but she was a champion and people dismissing her just annoys me, she was a very handy horse.

Makybe Diva on the other hand just plain annoys me. She won with 51kg and that should have been the end of her, Freedman got her and she put on 100kg when she was a 5 year old turning 6. If this didn't happen she would have never carried the 55/58 the following 2 years.

Freedman has since gone very quiet which most of us know why.

Its Premature though to put SYT above the best horses of the last 20 years, if he chokes in the Melbourne Cup and runs outside the top 10 he will simply fade away from peoples thoughts and drop down to just above the FOO level.

I personally think he will walk it in, I have followed this horse since his 1st run in Melbourne last year and he is virtually unbeatable and can only get better next year but there is a chance he could fail in the MC and champions don't fail.

Right now he is a champion but he hasn't done anything FOO, Northerly, Sunline, Makybe Diva hasn't done. If he wins on Tuesday though that will all change and I hope its not the last we see of him because he should improve next year and put himself above even Phar Lap if he has 3 cox plates & 2 Melbourne cups against his name by this time next year.

 

[mattys123]

What's with the change of ownership rumours flying around regarding SYT.

Hopefully it's an Aussie syndicate, but I doubt it, it's probably that damn Sheik coming here to steal our best horse.

I'd hate to see SYT leave our shores, never to return, no matter what happens on Tuesday.

Surely Dato has enough money in that he can keep SYT and not matter about how high the offers are from overseas.

 

[WeninRome]

Re: So You Think>>>>>>>>any horse any time EVER!!!

What did Makybe Diva ever beat?

The 2003 Melbourne Cup field was possibly the weakest ever, 2004 and 2005 had no other stayers at the top of their game.

Makybe Diva couldn't even beat Elvstroem most of the time.

Vinny was a world renowned stayer at that time...and she beat him twice.

3 Melbourne Cups in a row and a Cox Plate is an amazing effort in persons books.

 

[isamonster]

What's with the change of ownership rumours flying around regarding SYT.

Hopefully it's an Aussie syndicate, but I doubt it, it's probably that damn Sheik coming here to steal our best horse.

I'd hate to see SYT leave our shores, never to return, no matter what happens on Tuesday.

Surely Dato has enough money in that he can keep SYT and not matter about how high the offers are from overseas.

Heard on the radio this morning there is a massive bidding war going down on SYT between Coolmore and Darley/Godolphin with talk of $40m+ being bandied about. Would be a tragedy for racing in Australia but regardless of Dato's wealth he'd be a royal moron not to consider it!

 

[master bate]

Heard on the radio this morning there is a massive bidding war going down on SYT between Coolmore and Darley/Godolphin with talk of $40m+ being bandied about. Would be a tragedy for racing in Australia but regardless of Dato's wealth he'd be a royal moron not to consider it!

Depends what Dato is worth. If he's worth a billion then he'd be an idiot to sell it, because for 40mil he's selling his best toy and the chance he'll get another one as good as SYT whilst he lives is practically nothing.

 

[tige19]

There is a huge lack of respect for Makybe Diva on this thread and it's rather sad to see, she was and will always be Australias most loved horse since Phar Lap! In a sense she was our modern day true queen of the turf. Someone stated previously on this thread stated the diva didn't have that oar of invincibility like Sunline, what a load of shit. She had a strut like no other and the arrogance of the mare after races was bemusing, she never flinched or roused when around the males and the big crowds and she stalked her rivals and put pay to them in devastatingly ways. I agree Sunline was one of the greatest mares to grace our land but to say she is superior to MD is short sighted.

 

[isamonster]

Depends what Dato is worth. If he's worth a billion then he'd be an idiot to sell it, because for 40mil he's selling his best toy and the chance he'll get another one as good as SYT whilst he lives is practically nothing.

True. Also talk of SYT standing at Dato's property in NSW. Hopefully this doesn't happen too soon though!

On the other hand, if SYT was to go to stud overseas it would be good for the Australian breeding industry.

 

[davis_756]

There is a huge lack of respect for Makybe Diva on this thread and it's rather sad to see, she was and will always be Australias most loved horse since Phar Lap! In a sense she was our modern day true queen of the turf. Someone stated previously on this thread stated the diva didn't have that oar of invincibility like Sunline, what a load of shit. She had a strut like no other and the arrogance of the mare after races was bemusing, she never flinched or roused when around the males and the big crowds and she stalked her rivals and put pay to them in devastatingly ways. I agree Sunline was one of the greatest mares to grace our land but to say she is superior to MD is short sighted.

When she won it was only just, she never bolted away from a pack and won by 3L+, the only time she got close to it was in her maiden win at Wangaratta which she won by 2.8L.

In her 1st melbourne cup win she had not even ran a place in that preparation and would have never got a start if she was trying to do the same this year. She won because she had no weight and then only won 1 of her next 11 starts while she somehow grew 100kg as a 5-6 year old.

She tried going overseas and was well beaten, Sunline on the other hand rarely got beaten and when she did it was due to her attacking too far from home. Her slowest Cox Plate time would have put her 8 Lengths ahead of Makybe Diva in her winning year, it puts into perspective how much better the horses were that Sunline had to beat compared to the Diva.

Aside from all that everyone I know involved in horses don't see Makybe as a great simply because of what Freedman did to her, its amusing that he only got caught out last year and is back at it again this year.

 

[WeninRome]

When she won it was only just, she never bolted away from a pack and won by 3L+, the only time she got close to it was in her maiden win at Wangaratta which she won by 2.8L.

In her 1st melbourne cup win she had not even ran a place in that preparation and would have never got a start if she was trying to do the same this year. She won because she had no weight and then only won 1 of her next 11 starts while she somehow grew 100kg as a 5-6 year old.

She tried going overseas and was well beaten, Sunline on the other hand rarely got beaten and when she did it was due to her attacking too far from home. Her slowest Cox Plate time would have put her 8 Lengths ahead of Makybe Diva in her winning year, it puts into perspective how much better the horses were that Sunline had to beat compared to the Diva.

Aside from all that everyone I know involved in horses don't see Makybe as a great simply because of what Freedman did to her, its amusing that he only got caught out last year and is back at it again this year.

can you pm me details?

 

[krusher]

can you pm me details?

same here - pls PM the details ? have heard whispers but keen to hear what you have heard ?

 

[The_Falcon]

Me 3 am intrested to no

 

[tige19]

If it's the same stuff I used I remarkbly put on 5kgs in 3 weeks..!! Lol in all seriousness please pm details to.

 

[Hawks2009]

Depends what Dato is worth. If he's worth a billion then he'd be an idiot to sell it, because for 40mil he's selling his best toy and the chance he'll get another one as good as SYT whilst he lives is practically nothing.

I heard bart the other day say that, Dato has too much money and would have no reason to sell SYT, at 83, 40+ million wouldnt mean anything to him. I reckon they will keep racing him, he is too special not to keep racing if you already have so much money.

Personally i would sell because of the money, but if I had as much as Dato, I wouldnt need it so I'd rather keep racing him

 

[Ron The Bear]

The knock on So You Think's chances is on the female side of his pedigree.

"[SYT's dam] Triassic won from 1400m-2000m, but none of her previous seven winners including runners by Sadler's Wells' sons Carnegie and Galileo won past 1600m."

http://www.stallions.com.au/news/2010/08/memsie-stakes-to-so-you-think/

Personally feel that his prospects are not as strong as the market suggests, but better than the above implies.

 

[Pure Steele]

Timeform's latest release has So You Think coming in at Number 9 on the highest rated horses in the world list. http://www.timeform.com/display_articles.asp?page=Global_Rankings.asp

Appears he should come in at Number 2 in the world, now rating a 133, tied with Goldikova (France) & Workforce (GB). http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/news/local/sport/horse-racing/melbourne-cup-10-so-you-think-you-can-join-immortals/1984036.aspx

Super horse who has already rated higher than modern greats in Northerly and Sunline who both peaked at 129 I think. I remember reading somewhere that Kingston Town and Tulloch rated higher with 138.

 

[Lurkalot]

Personally feel that his prospects are not as strong as the market suggests, but better than the above implies.

I agree, into $3-00 .

IIRC Makybe Diva started around $4-50 after winning her Cox Plate with the knowledge she'd already won 2 prior Cups (& the Sydney Cup) at 3200m.

If he settles & stays I think his turn of foot could be too brilliant but it's still a big if.

 

[One Fell Swoop]

Depends what Dato is worth. If he's worth a billion then he'd be an idiot to sell it, because for 40mil he's selling his best toy and the chance he'll get another one as good as SYT whilst he lives is practically nothing.

http://warkah.com/40-richest-malaysian-for-2008/

This publication had his wealth estimated at around 200 million USD in 2008, but this would be far higher if it weren't for his philanthropic endeavours and the wealth he has shared with his family.

He also seems to have a well balanced outlook on life - http://www.viweb.freehosting.net/TanCN.htm

“I retired at the age of 70. Nobody thought I would. I am now 77. Because to just make money, is that what life is all about? How much is enough? Will it ever be enough?"

This would suggest he'll keep the horse.

 

[One Fell Swoop]

There is a huge lack of respect for Makybe Diva on this thread and it's rather sad to see, she was and will always be Australias most loved horse since Phar Lap! In a sense she was our modern day true queen of the turf. Someone stated previously on this thread stated the diva didn't have that oar of invincibility like Sunline, what a load of shit. She had a strut like no other and the arrogance of the mare after races was bemusing, she never flinched or roused when around the males and the big crowds and she stalked her rivals and put pay to them in devastatingly ways. I agree Sunline was one of the greatest mares to grace our land but to say she is superior to MD is short sighted.

Diva won 15 of 36, Sunline won 32 of 48 - who was more invincible?

Sunline won almost as many group 1s (13) as Diva did races.

Diva was unplaced in 14 of 36, Sunline in 4 of 48.

The sentiment of this thread would suggest that she is not Australia's most loved horse since Phar Lap, not that being "most loved" means anything.

 

[Barnzy]

last time sportsbet paid out on a 'sure thing', it was richmond for the wooden spoon, and we all know what happened there...

have sportsbet given SYT the kiss of death by paying out on the monday before the race?!

Yes...

 

[mattys123]

Gutsy run, he just got beat by the best stayer in the world, plain and simple, and also got pipped by a horse with no weight.

I lost no respect for SYT today, he may not be the greatest, but none of those "past greats" would have beaten Americain today, he was brilliant.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Is no Secretariat.

 

[Lakey91]

Gutsy run, he just got beat by the best stayer in the world, plain and simple, and also got pipped by a horse with no weight.

I lost no respect for SYT today, he may not be the greatest, but none of those "past greats" would have beaten Americain today, he was brilliant.

Completely agree.

You cannot fault him. He might not have won, but geez he did well.

 

[r dub 19]

Gutsy run, he just got beat by the best stayer in the world, plain and simple, and also got pipped by a horse with no weight.

I lost no respect for SYT today, he may not be the greatest, but none of those "past greats" would have beaten Americain today, he was brilliant.

not even the great lady?