The umpiring of the AFL needs to seriously be looked at.

[portaz]

- Shuey's "second swing". Result: Eagles goal.
- Josh falling over with Jamo behind him. Result: Eagles goal.
- Duigan getting his arms bludgeoned in a marking contest. Result: Eagles goal.
- Shuey (?) tackled twice, taking an eternity to dispose incorrectly of the ball, called play-on. Armfield immediately tackled as soon as he grabs it, holding the ball. Result: Eagles goal.
- Darling "manhandled" after a goal. Result: Eagles goal. (Bonus point here as minutes later Joseph was poleaxed by Waters after kicking a goal on the siren. Result: **** you Carlton)
- Lynch takes on three tacklers, drops the ball. Result: Play on.

Add to that:
- Murph handballs the ball into F50, and then gets slung by nicnat, and the free was not called down field... Result: no down field
- Carrots clearly getting one arm held by kerr on 2 occasions in front of umpires as he was running towards goal from the center bounce... Result: play on..
- 2nd Qtr - ball comes to top of goal sq in eagles forward line... Le cras handled exactly the same way walker was, and the free was paid... IMO, regardless of the context or time of the game, if the free is there, the free is supposed to be paid...

You are supposed to penalise the player that causes the infringement. It was called a free in the first half, so no reason it shouldnt have been paid in the second half.

I watched the game again last nite as a neutral supporter, and even tho there were alot of free paid in the first half, they were actually all there and they didnt miss to many (besides the shuey double kick).. In the 2nd half, we definitely got the ass end of the stick as the frees that were paid in the 1st half, were not paid to us in the 2nd, but were paid most of the time to the eagles...

This, bad kicking at easy set shots (2 x murph points, 1 x setanta point, 1 x simmo out on full), and some lucky goals for them (1 x kennedy legbreak bounce goal, 1 x Qstick just touched over the line, 1 x ?? just touched over the line, 1 x ?? kicked off the ground at the back of the pack) gave them the victory...

If we kicked a couple of those set shots, and those 2 goals got touched on the line and kennedys goal bounced straight for a point, all of a sudden we win by a couple goals...

Result: Not carltons night...

 

[Sweet16]

I think the thing that annoys me the most is how the umpires could change so dramatically from one half to the other. Either pick everything up all game or don't pick anything up all game - you can't have it both ways. This is why people get so annoyed with umpires.

I personally am not bothered about Walkers decision being paid, but if it had happened in the first half, there is no doubt in my mind that it would have been paid. The jamo one in the second qtr would not have been paid in the last half.

Just reading the Geish's justification why so many free kicks were paid is that the players focused on the ball in the second half and cut out any tactics - he must have been watching a different game to me because I thought they were all going for the ball from start to finish. Typical Geish repsponse; like he's ever going to come out and bag the umpires.

 

[yibbida]

Eagles' free love on the free kick freeway

From 2006 to 2011, no two clubs have rated so highly in the "average frees for" category as the Eagles and Cats.
Geelong finished first in average free kicks per game from 2007-2009 and is a close-up fourth in 2011.

West Coast, meanwhile, topped the league charts in 2006 and 2010, was runner-up in 2008 and is currently placed second this year.
Of the top 17 AFL players this year for total free kicks, a whopping five of them – Dean Cox (56 free kicks), Adam Selwood (43), Matt Priddis (42), Scott Selwood (38) and Luke Shuey (38) – play for West Coast.

It was the 16th time in 24 games this season that West Coast has finished in front of the ledger. The Eagles have a cumulative free kick differential of +37 for 2011.

 

[MattyB_76]

Then it's dropping the ball. Either way, free to Carlton. Learn the rules.

Sorry mate, 'dropping the ball' isn't a rule either.

 

[TommyAlvinsWig]

Incorrect disposal is (15.3.2). Been paid plenty of times before.

 

[TNBT]

I'm going to assume that we're talking about the blatantly obvious holding the ball decision that wasn't called against an Eagles player during the weekends game. If you think that there is no rule against dropping the ball, perhaps you should do some research first. Just found this:

When a player is in possession of the ball, and is tackled correctly (i.e., above the knees and below the shoulders), he must immediately dispose of the ball by kicking or handpassing. Failure to do so, when a prior opportunity to dispose of it existed, results in a penalty benefiting the tackling team, which is awarded a free kick. A free kick is also awarded to the tackler if there was no prior opportunity, but the player in possession of the ball does not dispose of it or attempt to do so within a reasonable time. This is also called holding the ball.

Lets take a second to look at that, shall we?

Did the Eagles player have prior opportunity to dispose of the ball? Check.

Was he tackled fairly? Check again.

Did he fail to dispose of the ball correctly? Check once again.

Conclusion of anyone with half a brain (and I understand that this rules out most AFL umpires)? Holding the ball.




Oh yeah, in case you wanted to claim that he was in the process of disposing of the ball when he was tackled, and is therefore somehow not guilty of holding the ball, have a squiz at this:

If the ball carrier, who had prior opportunity before the tackle, was swung off balance while attempting to dispose the ball but not making contact, a holding the ball decision would be awarded against the ball carrier on the basis of the ball not being legally disposed of whilst tackled.

There is no way to deny that he had prior opportunity to dispose of the ball, and he was tackled fairly, otherwise the Eagles player would have been awarded a free for an incorrect tackle. So what can anyone who isn't a complete dumbass conclude? It was holding the ball, every single day of the week, except obviously that night, for God only knows why. Also, if you want to somehow claim that it wasn't holding the ball, despite the rules to the contrary, then you must admit that the holding the ball decision called against a Carlton player (Armfield I think) was not the correct call, considering that he had no prior opportunity, unlike the Eagles player.

 

[The_Wookie]

its worth noting that he far more opportunity that Kade Simpson who was pinged for it in the first quarter - and rightfully so.

 

[cookie monster]

its worth noting that he far more opportunity that Kade Simpson who was pinged for it in the first quarter - and rightfully so.

Forget Simpson, what about armfield's??? Christ

 

[TNBT]

I don't know if this has been mentioned in any other threads, but I thought I'd post it here: http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/123710/default.aspx

Walker free not there

AFL UMPIRES manager Jeff Gieschen says Ray Chamberlain made the correct decision when he elected not to pay a free kick to Carlton's Andrew Walker in the last 90 seconds of the Blues' three-point loss to West Coast on Saturday night.

I usually don't get too worked up on internet forums, but I have to say this. What a pathetic, dodgy, slimey, **** sucking, piss weak, sack of ****ing shit Jeff Gieschen is. Seriously. He's the worst kind of coward there is -- the type that does the wrong thing and then tries to cover it up rather than admit the truth. He's been doing it all season too. Having him running the umpiring department is a scary thought for the AFL if they hope to maintain any shred of respectability going into the future. Running the umpiring department? Jesus. I wouldn't trust this half-wit running a primary school kid's lemonade stand on the nature strip. He's so ****ing weak and such a coward that having him in charge of umpiring is like playing backyard cricket with a 5 year old in that they both just blatantly make up the rules as the go along. It may not be very Christian of me, but I'm seriously hoping this maggot walks out in traffic and gets up close and personal with the front of a Kenworth.

 

[MattyB_76]

This relates to Schuey breaking a tackle and not being called HTB.

He hardly held onto him not deemed as a tackle so cant be holding the ball

Then it's dropping the ball. Either way, free to Carlton. Learn the rules.

Sorry mate, 'dropping the ball' isn't a rule either.

Incorrect disposal is (15.3.2). Been paid plenty of times before.

15.3.2 Incorrect Disposal and Payment of Free Kick
When the football is in play, a Free Kick shall be awarded
against a Player who hands the football to another Player​

or throws the football.


Don't see it mention dropping the ball in that definition. There is no rule which says "dropping the ball" is a free kick.

There's also this rule.

15.2.4 Application — Specific Instances where Play
shall Continue​

For the avoidance of doubt, the field Umpire shall allow play to
continue when:
(a) a Player is bumped and the football falls from the
Player’s hands;
(b) a Player’s arm is knocked which causes the Player to
lose possession of the football;
(c) a Player’s arms are pinned to their side by an opponent
which causes the Player to drop the football, unless the
Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of
the football, in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply;
(d) a Player, whilst in the act of Kicking or Handballing, is
swung off-balance and does not make contact with the
football by either foot or hand, unless the Player has had
a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of the football,
in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply; or
(e) a Player is pulled or swung by one arm which causes
the football to fall from the Player’s hands, unless the
Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose​

of the football, in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply.

 

[TommyAlvinsWig]

This relates to Schuey breaking a tackle and not being called HTB.

15.3.2 Incorrect Disposal and Payment of Free Kick
When the football is in play, a Free Kick shall be awarded
against a Player who hands the football to another Player​

or throws the football.


Don't see it mention dropping the ball in that definition. There is no rule which says "dropping the ball" is a free kick.

There's also this rule.

15.2.4 Application — Specific Instances where Play
shall Continue​

For the avoidance of doubt, the field Umpire shall allow play to
continue when:
(a) a Player is bumped and the football falls from the
Player’s hands;
(b) a Player’s arm is knocked which causes the Player to
lose possession of the football;
(c) a Player’s arms are pinned to their side by an opponent
which causes the Player to drop the football, unless the
Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of
the football, in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply;
(d) a Player, whilst in the act of Kicking or Handballing, is
swung off-balance and does not make contact with the
football by either foot or hand, unless the Player has had
a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of the football,
in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply; or
(e) a Player is pulled or swung by one arm which causes
the football to fall from the Player’s hands, unless the
Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose​

of the football, in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply.

So under 15.2.4, if it is assumed that a proper tackle was not completed as opposition fans are keen to state, wouldn't (d) or (e) be applicable? A bump was not laid on Shuey, nor was contact made with his arms.

The rules state that correct disposal is a kick or a handball, neither of which were performed.

 

[MattyB_76]

So under 15.2.4, if it is assumed that a proper tackle was not completed as opposition fans are keen to state, wouldn't (d) or (e) be applicable? A bump was not laid on Shuey, nor was contact made with his arms.

The rules state that correct disposal is a kick or a handball, neither of which were performed.

I disagree, you can see Robinson lunges and hits Schuey's arm as part of the attempted tackle.

Anyway, my initial point was there is no rule called "dropping the ball". You haven't illustrated anything in the rules or otherwise which would prove there is.

 

[Silvagnis]

I disagree, you can see Robinson lunges and hits Schuey's arm as part of the attempted tackle.

Anyway, my initial point was there is no rule called "dropping the ball". You haven't illustrated anything in the rules or otherwise which would prove there is.

I think 15.2.3 (a) and 15.2.4(c) covers it....

Link

15.2.3 H olding the Football — Prior Opportunity/No
Prior Opportunity
Where the field Umpire is satisfied that a Player in possession
of the football:
(a) has had a prior opportunity to dispose of the football, the
field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against that Player
if the Player does not Kick or Handball the football
immediately when they are Correctly Tackled;

(c) a Player’s arms are pinned to their side by an opponent
which causes the Player to drop the football, unless the
Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of
the football, in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply;

Link

http://www.gameanalyser.afl.com.au/...02&eventType=free&seek=2798&videoQuality=high

Shuey took at least two steps and was done cold before he dropped the ball.

Note that they ruled that Kerr had stepped out of bounds before that and called it back. Yet they put away the whistle after the contest on the wing after they let the Walker and Glass contest go.

http://www.gameanalyser.afl.com.au/...&eventType=Behind&seek=7015&videoQuality=high

What would Ratten say?

 

[TommyAlvinsWig]

I don't recall any contact with the arm as he caught him from behind, but I would have to review the incident again.

There is no reference in the rules to paddling the ball to a teammate in an upwards motion with your hand being an incorrect disposal either, but that has been paid a number of times as an incorrect disposal this year.

The fact that disposing of the ball by dropping it is not explicitly labelled as an incorrect disposal in the rules does not make it acceptable by omission.

If I choose to dispose of the ball by bouncing it off my hip, is that a legal disposal because it is not explicitly stated I cannot do it in the rules?

The rules clearly state that which constitutes a correct disposal, any other disposal by hand is deemed a throw, excepting the circumstances described in 15.4.2.

Just letting go of the ball without any mitigating circumstances prescribed in the rules is not deemed a correct disposal, it is incorrect disposal - throwing the ball.

 

[Cazbah]

This is going to be a long off-season

We can keep complaining and playing this over and over, or we can get over it and look forward to 2012.

I for one am choosing the latter.

 

[Bluebear]

Judd held and blocked at every stoppage by a player with NO eyes for the ball. Look at the incident where Judd gave away the free early on. Selwood dropped the shoulder from front on into Judd and drove him away from the contest.

Of course that was ignored and as Judd pulled him down to get him off he was pinged.

Throughout the night the "making a genuine attempt to dispose once tackled" was realxed with a number of WCE players, especially late in the game, allowed to run into a tackle and just go limp.

Having said that, if Murphy didn't get the Jitters early at goa, or Simpson late......we win, despite the umps.

WCE won't get the same draw next year and will have to work much harder on the road to stay top 4. We will replace them. Lets see what sort of deal they get on the G on Saturday.

 

[GoBlues!]

Judd held and blocked at every stoppage by a player with NO eyes for the ball. Look at the incident where Judd gave away the free early on. Selwood dropped the shoulder from front on into Judd and drove him away from the contest.

Of course that was ignored and as Judd pulled him down to get him off he was pinged.

Throughout the night the "making a genuine attempt to dispose once tackled" was realxed with a number of WCE players, especially late in the game, allowed to run into a tackle and just go limp.

Having said that, if Murphy didn't get the Jitters early at goal, or Simpson late......we win, despite the umps.

WCE won't get the same draw next year and will have to work much harder on the road to stay top 4. We will replace them. Lets see what sort of deal they get on the G on Saturday.

This, as well Davies' stupid free kick, are the things that are in our team's control that we can and need to improve on.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

This is going to be a long off-season

We can keep complaining and playing this over and over, or we can get over it and look forward to 2012.

I for one am choosing the latter.

Just going through the stages of grief by the looks.

The shock, the sadness, the anger. Soon we find perspective and the healing begins.

I think the hard part is we played some fantastic football in the finals, football capable of winning a flag and we did cop some bad luck along the way. The perspective part for me, is thinking that we would not have overcome Geelong and Collingwood in consecutive weeks anyway.

We would have had Gibbs back next week, Waite had just come back in the VFL and who knows if Kreuzer would have got up for a prelim. As Ratts says, it's a game of inches. We had some very poor timing a few times this year.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

[youtube]N_0sA4G0_mY[/youtube]

i get bored

Yeah Natanui clearly thrusts his arms out horizontally to push Warnock out of the space and didn't look to extend his arms to tap the ball. In the second, Cox watches Warnock the whole time, pushes him out of the space first then tries to contest the ball.

Seems fair enough.

 

[Blueboy3]

I disagree, you can see Robinson lunges and hits Schuey's arm as part of the attempted tackle.

Anyway, my initial point was there is no rule called "dropping the ball". You haven't illustrated anything in the rules or otherwise which would prove there is.

Regardless of what the technical term is:

Did he have prior opportunity?
Did he dispose of the ball correctly?

Im absolutely dumfounded that you dont think there is a free kick there.

 

[Bronson23]

i was at the game saturday night.
i usually get vocal, but i'm not the one to abuse/blame umpires.
but saturday was f'ing ridiculous.
34 free kicks in a half.
it was the most boring/irritating/frustrating half of football i've ever seen.
there was no flow to the game (which is how carlton play football) and it actually felt at some point, that the game was getting thrown by the umpires.
1. how shuey was not given holding the ball.
2. the umpires at stages would call random free kicks, the game would stop and then pay advantage once west coast was 10m clear.

i was outraged and if ****ing razor ray ever umpires a game near me again, i will kill someone. and if he doesnt get dropped for the rest of the finals, i will also kill someone.

 

[slashin_velvet]

i was outraged and if ****ing razor ray ever umpires a game near me again, i will kill someone. and if he doesnt get dropped for the rest of the finals, i will also kill someone.

Someone gonna die:
What's Your Decision

The big Geesh says "Umpires will be selected for continuing finals based on their previous performance...The Saturday preliminary final (umpires will be) Chris Donlon, Matt Stevic and Ray Chamberlain"

At about the 4 minute mark

 

[blue gunslinger]

boring-hell no

 

[slashin_velvet]

Anyway, my initial point was there is no rule called "dropping the ball". You haven't illustrated anything in the rules or otherwise which would prove there is.

Not surprised an adelaide supporter isnt aware of incorrect disposal rules...

 

[Dramoth]

Someone gonna die:
What's Your Decision

The big Geesh says "Umpires will be selected for continuing finals based on their previous performance...The Saturday preliminary final (umpires will be) Chris Donlon, Matt Stevic and Ray Chamberlain"

At about the 4 minute mark

If the Eagles lose by less than a kick on Saturday and it's a Razor Ray decision that costs them a place in the Grand Final, their board will go into meltdown calling for his head... conveniently forgetting about our meltdown over some of his decisions against them last weekend.

Would be justice as far as I am concerned... and I will happily wear a red for reminding them that the umpires decision is final and they should abide by their decisions...