The war against renewable energy

[Power Raid]

FFS…. Let’s say you have a fully charged EV sitting in the drive way.
You are on a TOU tariff paying 50c during peak…. You can pay that or use you car battery for a few hours for cooking etc using 10% of the battery until the peak rates are over. Hmmmm to pay or not to pay!!!

Is this concept to hard for you to understand?

For a start why is energy $0.50kwh?

Second free energy from the grid will cost you $0.40kwh to store and release. Energy should not cost $0.40kwh


This along with high CO2 is why I believe there are technologies that will replace batteries in the medium term and see batteries as a storage power illogical (grid stability makes great sense)

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Do you drive a car from Sunset to sunrise?

The biggest reduction to CO2 will be when we reduce peak usage at peak times.
So the spike that occurs when everyone comes home to cook etc.. if we can reduce grid usage at these times we can kill the need for coal. Because coal at the moment is basically running for those times.


The idea that people can charge for relatively cheap at work and bring the power home isn’t that big of a concept.

In general people cannot charge for relatively cheap at work. Its not happening. It happens at a few places with few employees, but large employers are simply not rolling out wholesale charging stations.
If you wanted to have chargers for say, 100 cars, the costs to the employer would be huge, then they would get to pay for the electricity.
Yes many people leave while its barely light ( in winter particularly ) and its getting dark when they get home.

In general people cannot simply choose to work from home.

In general people do not live in a walkable distance from their place of work. ( Australians in particular like to clump in huge cities, the myriad of smaller cities in Europe make it entirely possible, but even there people often choose to commute from a village or another city ).

No coal runs all bloody night.
We dismantled a lot of it, so we don't have enough electricity for peak times.
If you charge at night after peak times, you are charging with a good component of Coal. This is a fact. Go and look on the AEMO web site and stop making stuff up.

 

[QuietB]

The difference is control systems

The batteries themselves are modular but to optimise for energy purchase, energy sale relies upon market data and weather forecasts. The other is useful life optimisation.

This is not impossible but costly at small scale.



Further amortisation of a whole car over a shorter battery life and losing warranty adds to costs.


Then servicing (optimisation of control system) and repairs (even under warranty which is not free but a prepaid benefit) is more costly in a decentralised system.

As I said in another post - Australia spends circa $80 billion a year on petrol plus how ever many billions a year on electricity and associated service charges.

The money is there. Just that it is currently spent mostly on fossil fuel subsidies.

 

[QuietB]

In general people cannot charge for relatively cheap at work. Its not happening. It happens at a few places with few employees, but large employers are simply not rolling out wholesale charging stations.
If you wanted to have chargers for say, 100 cars, the costs to the employer would be huge, then they would get to pay for the electricity.
Yes many people leave while its barely light ( in winter particularly ) and its getting dark when they get home.

In general people cannot simply choose to work from home.

In general people do not live in a walkable distance from their place of work. ( Australians in particular like to clump in huge cities, the myriad of smaller cities in Europe make it entirely possible, but even there people often choose to commute from a village or another city ).

No coal runs all bloody night.
We dismantled a lot of it, so we don't have enough electricity for peak times.
If you charge at night after peak times, you are charging with a good component of Coal. This is a fact. Go and look on the AEMO web site and stop making stuff up.

Who says your work has to pay for it?

If you set up the right policy and the right market the private sector will invest in it.

In return they will charge fees made up of generation costs, infrastructure costs, service costs etc. plus margin.

Generation costs are regularly negative during in the day - distribution companies would make a killing.

All they need is policy and certainty.

Instead we are fantasising about nuclear

For no other reason than to delay what we should be doing. This is asbestos/smoking/climate change denial all over again.

Never get in the way of capital.

 

[nut]

n general people cannot charge for relatively cheap at work. Its not happening. It happens at a few places with few employees,

Not now … but that’s what will happen, If we are serious about the transition away from fossil fuels.
The goal is to Harness solar, store it and us at night.

 

[nut]

For a start why is energy $0.50kwh?

That’s a conservative rate for peak time of use in most power grids in Aus.

So why would you pay that? When you could use your battery on wheels?

The rest of your Post is incoherent.

 

[nut]

If you charge at night after peak times, you are charging with a good component of Coal. This is a fact. Go and look on the AEMO web site and stop making stuff up.

im not charging at night … i set my minimum discharge to 20% and Im running out of battery about 1am … if Amber decides to dump my battery. If I don’t export than my battery last all night, except very cold winter nights.

Whe. I dump my battery into the grid during peak times Im helping to decrease the reliance on fossil fuels …reducing peak demand is almost as important as storage.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Who says your work has to pay for it?

If you set up the right policy and the right market the private sector will invest in it.

In return they will charge fees made up of generation costs, infrastructure costs, service costs etc. plus margin.

Generation costs are regularly negative during in the day - distribution companies would make a killing.

All they need is policy and certainty.

Instead we are fantasising about nuclear

For no other reason than to delay what we should be doing. This is asbestos/smoking/climate change denial all over again.

Never get in the way of capital.

The stuff you say "people will do" is not happening anywhere . Are you Nostradamus or something because i see no sign of what you say will happen actually happening? Its not happening in Europe. There is "some" in California , but everywhere else in the USA , forget it.

i don't agree that Nuclear is a good solution because of cost and because of where we are now with renewables. But this incessant stuff about free solar is just garbage. Solar at night is not "free".
Batteries and storage cost a lot and investors will recoup that .

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I hate seeing TV commercials for Natural Gas and how great it is for Australians blah blah.

For starters, the LPG market has meant that they've almost priced themselves out of the market.
Home use is horrendous ( right now Gas for heating in Victoria has less emissions than Coal based Electricity , but the price is horrendous ).
It should be good for riding the peaks and troughs of the renewable electricity market, but the market is avoiding in favor of using coal.

 

[Power Raid]

Generation costs are regularly negative during in the day - distribution companies would make a killing.

According to Mindaroo generation costs are north of $0.20 /kwh for wind. Yes the market price can be zero or negative but the cost of generation remains the same. Meaning over the course of time, they need to generate a cost plus or face insolvency.

Storage is $0.24 to $0.040 per kwh (even with so called free energy inputs) which again needs a cost plus.

The challenge is to get the price down and to actually deliver a low CO2 outcome. SA is getting close on the CO2 but they are still many times over world leaders like Tassie, NZ, Ontarion, France, Norway etc

 

[Power Raid]

I hate seeing TV commercials for Natural Gas and how great it is for Australians blah blah.

For starters, the LPG market has meant that they've almost priced themselves out of the market.
Home use is horrendous ( right now Gas for heating in Victoria has less emissions than Coal based Electricity , but the price is horrendous ).
It should be good for riding the peaks and troughs of the renewable electricity market, but the market is avoiding in favor of using coal.

personally I feel they should call it methane rather than "natural gas".

 

[QuietB]

personally I feel they should call it methane rather than "natural gas".

Plug the cows into the grid

 

[nut]

Storage is $0.24 to $0.040 per kwh

Why do you keep posting absolute crap!!!!
Are you saying commercial batteries are more expensive than home batteries… you are so full of shit.
My battery … with a hybrid inverter cost $16000 they are cheaper now.
16000/ 19.2 / 4000 cycles … 21c a kWh.

Large scale batteries would cost in the single digits per KWH .

 

[Power Raid]

Do you drive a car from Sunset to sunrise?

The biggest reduction to CO2 will be when we reduce peak usage at peak times.
So the spike that occurs when everyone comes home to cook etc.. if we can reduce grid usage at these times we can kill the need for coal. Because coal at the moment is basically running for those times.


The idea that people can charge for relatively cheap at work and bring the power home isn’t that big of a concept.

after fires in the Mineral Resource's head office, recharging is no longer available in the building

insurance companies, the fire brigade and the concept of criminal negligence (jail time for directors) will result in nation wide bans or major modifications to recharging stations

Fire department wants restrictions on EV parking and charging in big buildings

NSW Fire and Rescue says EVs should not be charged, or even parked, in enclosed building car parks, without the very latest protection systems. EV experts fear over-reach and added costs.

thedriven.io

 

[nut]

after fires in the Mineral Resource's head office, recharging is no longer available in the building

insurance companies, the fire brigade and the concept of criminal negligence (jail time for directors) will result in nation wide bans or major modifications to recharging stations

Fire department wants restrictions on EV parking and charging in big buildings

NSW Fire and Rescue says EVs should not be charged, or even parked, in enclosed building car parks, without the very latest protection systems. EV experts fear over-reach and added costs.

thedriven.io

Do petrol stations have safety standards? Why wouldn’t charging stations have safety standards???

 

[Power Raid]

Why do you keep posting absolute crap!!!!
Are you saying commercial batteries are more expensive than home batteries… you are so full of shit.
My battery … with a hybrid inverter cost $16000 they are cheaper now.
16000/ 19.2 / 4000 cycles … 21c a kWh.

Large scale batteries would cost in the single digits per KWH .

can I confirm your rate on the cost of capital over the 11 year, the utilisation rate per day and the degradation rate applied on the battery per annum?

 

[Power Raid]

Do petrol stations have safety standards? Why wouldn’t charging stations have safety standards???

the standards based on precedence (insurance companies no longer covering buildings) and calls by the fire brigade to ban recharging within a building, means recharging station infrastructure we need to be rethought.

Imagine living in an apartment block and trying to recharge on the street or same said during the day outside a city office?

I'm not sure of the relevance of a petrol stations, can you add colour?

 

[QuietB]

In general people cannot charge for relatively cheap at work. Its not happening. It happens at a few places with few employees, but large employers are simply not rolling out wholesale charging stations.
If you wanted to have chargers for say, 100 cars, the costs to the employer would be huge, then they would get to pay for the electricity.
Yes many people leave while its barely light ( in winter particularly ) and its getting dark when they get home.

In general people cannot simply choose to work from home.

In general people do not live in a walkable distance from their place of work. ( Australians in particular like to clump in huge cities, the myriad of smaller cities in Europe make it entirely possible, but even there people often choose to commute from a village or another city ).

No coal runs all bloody night.
We dismantled a lot of it, so we don't have enough electricity for peak times.
If you charge at night after peak times, you are charging with a good component of Coal. This is a fact. Go and look on the AEMO web site and stop making stuff up.

Something has to happen. And nuclear in 25 years is obviously not the answer.

Australia is completely rudderless when it comes to energy and has been for nearly two decades now.

 

[nut]

can I confirm your rate on the cost of capital over the 11 year, the utilisation rate per day and the degradation rate applied on the battery per annum?

21c a kilowatt.….. I used maths… Im not sure what you use.

Here is the actual cost of large scale batteries.


“Dixon says prices for battery storage projects have fallen dramatically from around $A900-$A1,000/kWh in the middle of 2024 to $A650 to $A750/kWh at the start of 2024 and $A500 to $A625/kWh now.”

Im assuming they’ll get much more cycles out of them than my home battery.

So about 12c a KWH… based on a conservative 4000 cycles.

 

[QuietB]

the standards based on precedence (insurance companies no longer covering buildings) and calls by the fire brigade to ban recharging within a building, means recharging station infrastructure we need to be rethought.

Imagine living in an apartment block and trying to recharge on the street or same said during the day outside a city office?

I'm not sure of the relevance of a petrol stations, can you add colour?

Lamppost in London



Bollard in London

 

[nut]

ban recharging within a building

That’s not what they recommended…. … why do you lie? They made multiple recommendations to make it safer.

 

[nut]

Solid state batteries are about to get mass produced … around 12000 cycles and cheaper again.

 

[Power Raid]

Lamppost in London

View attachment 2176254

Bollard in London

View attachment 2176253

I trust you have never charged a vehicle in london?

try and find one that works that is available

 

[Power Raid]

That’s not what they recommended…. … why do you lie? They made multiple recommendations to make it safer.

sorry it was fire rescue victoria not the fire brigade, they have taken the lead by banning recharging at their stations and work sites (abc radio)

 

[QuietB]

I trust you have never charged a vehicle in london?

try and find one that works that is available

I have and it was not fun. Doesn’t mean it can’t work

We are at the start - not the end