Unsolved The Zodiac Killer

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Wasn't actually stopped they just slowed down and had a look for a few seconds to see who it was and left when he wasn't a black man. They didn't see any blood but I guess it was pretty dark. iirc he was also sort of turning as if to walk into a house which obviously turned out not to be his.


edit* this is what claimed in the letter.
"p.s. 2 cops pulled a goof abot 3 min after I left the cab. I was walking down
the hill to the park when this cop car pulled up + one of them called me over +
asked if I saw anyone acting suspicious or strange in the last 5 to 10 min + I
said yes there was this man who was runnig by waveing a gun & the cops peeled
rubber + went around the corner as I directed them + I disappeared into the
park a block + a half away never to be seen again."

Obviously this is BS, he also makes a some other pretty absurd claims in the same letter, that the cops sketch is useless because he wore a disguise, left them fake 'clews' and that the fingerprints (one partial of which was in blood..) aren't his because he wears a coating of glue over his fingertips. Seems like that he was in some sort of attempt at damage control as he realised from reports that LE now knew roughly what he looked like and also had some decent forensic evidence.

Perhaps my earlier assumption of him being more experienced than first thought was incorrect, then; it does seem like pretty hefty damage control and the actions of a panicking man. He's a very conflicted, interesting individual - he seems very intelligent, yet struggles to spell even the simplest of words. He seems calculated and experienced, yet goes into a state of nervous damage control after they come close. With him being as internally contradictory as he was, I wouldn't be surprised if he did end up committing suicide. As far as I'm concerned, that final letter sent in 1978 was a fake - the handwriting was far, far too different, so he disappeared just after 1974.

 

[Lockyer24]

First read about this when I saw the upcoming movie.

For what its worth I found the movie very good and seemed to just stick to the known facts and not go overboard on creative licence with the lead characters etc.

This website gave a pretty good run down of suspects from what I remember
http://www.zodiackiller.com/

 

[Mr Shankly]

For him to be composed enough to simply say, "Oh yeah, a man covered in blood just ran into there!" and not showing any sort of nerves at being stopped, I'm convinced that he has to be more criminally experienced than is the consensus. Most people would freak out if something like that happened to them.

Just on this, psychopaths (and I think it's safe to say Zodiac is/was one) aren't like most people, they don't feel fear quite the same way you and I do.

I recall a TV documentary, I think it was Most Evil, where researchers described experiments they'd conducted regarding psychopathy. It's been a while since I saw it, but I remember that for one experiment, the researchers put headphones on their subjects and told the subjects they were going to count back from ten, and when they reached zero, an extremely loud noise would play through the headphones. The results showed that, as zero approached, normal people started to sweat and become agitated, because they were afraid. Psychopaths, however, remained sedate and showed no signs of fear, even though they knew what was coming. When you include the fact that psychopaths are often pathological liars, you can see why Zodiac was able to respond as he did.

 

[justlookingaround]

This is something that I've thought about a lot, but I'm not sure if I agree. The complexity of the ciphers, as well as his incredible ability to cover his tracks and get away with taunting police so frequently seems to imply a very intelligent mind.

Could be anything from autism to obsessive compulsive disorder.

 

[placebo]

It's always fascinated me. A little while ago I got right into Richard Gaikowski being the killer:
http://www.zodiackiller.com/SuspectGaikowski.html

But as someone already mentioned, there's plenty to discredit pretty much every theory on who it is. Still, it's one of those ones that continue to fascinate.

 

[grizzlym]

It's always fascinated me. A little while ago I got right into Richard Gaikowski being the killer:
http://www.zodiackiller.com/SuspectGaikowski.html

But as someone already mentioned, there's plenty to discredit pretty much every theory on who it is. Still, it's one of those ones that continue to fascinate.

Ah yes, that's the favoured suspect of that Goldcatcher dude. Longtime Zodiac researcher who has developed quite the cult around himself.

Here's a link to his report.

http://mk-zodiac.com/InSearchofaSerialKiller.html

 

[Kram]

Blaine Blaine or 'Goldcatcher' is more nutty than a fruitcake. Gaikowski is even worse than Allen, he was cleared by law enforcement decades ago, iirc at some point Det.Narlow even viewed the guy's passport that showed that he wasn't even in the country for the first murder.

 

[grizzlym]

Blaine Blaine or 'Goldcatcher' is more nutty than a fruitcake. Gaikowski is even worse than Allen, he was cleared by law enforcement decades ago, iirc at some point Det.Narlow even viewed the guy's passport that showed that he wasn't even in the country for the first murder.

Yeah, I know. The whole subculture of the zodiac hunters is quite interesting though.

 

[EasternTiger]

Anyone who has seen the movie knows Arthur Leigh Allen got one of these beauties as a Christmas present. His brother Ron reckons he got it in 67 but there are also reports he actually got it around the time of the first killings, a year later. Apparently they are pretty good watches so they may very well have been quite common in the 60's. Pretty trippy though.

 

[Kram]

Nice watch, I'm not even sure ALA got his back after he got raided..

Anyone see the 'Mystery Quest' episode on this a couple of years ago? Half of it was Gaikowski rubbish, but the parts where they visited all the crime scenes as they are today withcriminalist Paul Holes was quite interesting.

A bloke from the FBI also talked about one of the unsolved ciphers, one part he highlighted said that they were reasonably confident contained some sort of message.

 

[BACCS]

Would this have been solved if committed in modern times, with the technology and all? He didn't seem like a guy who could have stayed hidden forever with the criminal resources available now.

 

[Kram]

From my understanding they very probably have enough evidence to nail someone given the chance but who?? They still need a lead to a name of a person that could've carried out these crimes. That's the problem with random unmotivated attacks.

 

[LosBeatles]

The part in the movie where he's alone in the basement with the creepy guy, then realises TZK also mentioned having a basement and that they are extremely rare in california was so freaking scarey. I was watching it alone in the dark.

 

[Kram]

As far as I'm concerned, that final letter sent in 1978 was a fake - the handwriting was far, far too different, so he disappeared just after 1974.

The slant and spacing of the letters is as if the person writing it that had a sample of his writing was just copying/tracing the letters without putting it all together properly and fluently like the real person would.

The funny thing is that the cartoonist Robert Graysmith is actually a very good candidate for being the forger.

 

[PP34]

Read about this, the other day. Very weird.

 

[Kim Hagdorn]

Although I guess they will never find out now, it would be very interesting to know if the aborted abduction of Ms Johns with her baby was actually him.

 

[grizzlym]

I wonder if this will come of anything. From July this year:

"S A N F R A N C I S C O, July 24


The Zodiac Killer who terrorized San Francisco three decades ago with coded messages and taunts to police has never been found. But now new technology — DNA testing techniques he could not have imagined in 1969 — could be the killer's undoing.

No physical evidence identifying the Zodiac Killer was found at the scenes of his crimes, but the 20 or so letters and cards he sent to the press raise the possibility that he did leave some trace of himself: Today's highly sensitive DNA tests can extract a genetic fingerprint from saliva used to lick a stamp or seal an envelope"


http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=131951

It seems partial DNA was found 10 years ago but new letters have surfaced as well as more advancements in the field. There's quite a discussion going on over at the Zodiac forum.

 

[Kim Hagdorn]

There would be far more chance of Melbourne FC breaking into the top 4 next season than him getting caught at this stage of the game unfortunately.

 

[grizzlym]

There would be far more chance of Melbourne FC breaking into the top 4 next season than him getting caught at this stage of the game unfortunately.

Perhaps Paul Roos is the Zodiac? Dunno how he managed it but.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

Its really the ultimate trippy case this one, so many twists and turns, and the comment about some of the Zodiac hunters being as nutty as the killer himself are not far wrong. You can spend hours reading about this and still not understand it all, there are some great books on it. The stuff about him showing up to stab the couple wearing an executioners hood is farrrrrked.

My favourite piece of information, which I only gleaned from the wiki page, is that there's a group of semi-senile retired police officers who call themselves the 'Mandamus Seven' who fervently believe it was a cover up because the killer was having an affair with a judge's wife and therefore couldn't be brought to justice. Um.

Graysmith's book, which puts Arthur Leigh Allen in the frame, is a pretty good read and he makes a convincing case that Allen was, at the very least, a violent sexual offender nutjar who was interested in the Zodiac killings and may even have been crazy enough to want to think he was the Zodiac- but at the end of the day, Allen passed a lie detector test, and his DNA doesn't match the stamps on the basis of the partial DNA taken previously.

This one really could still be solved thanks to DNA, but the clock is ticking as suspects die off and the chance of DNA samples being taken diminishes. There have been worse serial killers, but maybe none as flamboyantly weird as Zodiac.

 

[hirdy_is_champ]

Its really the ultimate trippy case this one, so many twists and turns, and the comment about some of the Zodiac hunters being as nutty as the killer himself are not far wrong. You can spend hours reading about this and still not understand it all, there are some great books on it. The stuff about him showing up to stab the couple wearing an executioners hood is farrrrrked.

My favourite piece of information, which I only gleaned from the wiki page, is that there's a group of semi-senile retired police officers who call themselves the 'Mandamus Seven' who fervently believe it was a cover up because the killer was having an affair with a judge's wife and therefore couldn't be brought to justice. Um.

Graysmith's book, which puts Arthur Leigh Allen in the frame, is a pretty good read and he makes a convincing case that Allen was, at the very least, a violent sexual offender nutjar who was interested in the Zodiac killings and may even have been crazy enough to want to think he was the Zodiac- but at the end of the day, Allen passed a lie detector test, and his DNA doesn't match the stamps on the basis of the partial DNA taken previously.

This one really could still be solved thanks to DNA, but the clock is ticking as suspects die off and the chance of DNA samples being taken diminishes. There have been worse serial killers, but maybe none as flamboyantly weird as Zodiac.

Not trying to be a smartarse, but lie detector tests can be easily manipulated, hence why they don't necessarily count as evidence.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

Not trying to be a smartarse, but lie detector tests can be easily manipulated, hence why they don't necessarily count as evidence.

Agree, fwiw Allen was in a mental hospital when the test was taken, and Graysmith's theory is that he drugged himself the day before so he could beat the test. With the stamp DNA he just suggests someone else licked the stamps or something.

That's possible, but when all the arguments for Allen being the Zodiac are circumstantial rather than anything directly linking him to the crimes, it's rather unhelpful when the two things which really could link him to the crime both came up negative. If he'd got a positive or an uncertain result on the lie detector test you can guarantee Graysmith wouldn't be dismissing it as unreliable.

 

[Kram]

Allen is a complete dead end as a suspect and has been so for decades.

 

[Kram]

"This Is the Zodiac Speaking": Into the Mind of a Serial Killer. Has anyone read this? It's supposed to be worth a look.

 

[billywhizz]

Have you ever seen a suspect that looks more like the identikit of the Zodiac than this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hansen