Secondary Thinking about becoming a teacher

[Kwality]

This is a quote from a letter responding to an editorial* quoting Noel Pearson.

Explicit teaching without generating student curiosity and inquiry is a recipe for boredom. Inquiry learning without explicit teaching is a recipe for ignorance.

I'm interested in any comments from teachers to the above quote.

*https://www.theaustralian.com.au/co...g/news-story/9aac969e6d8cf259699bd5c71c510b65

 

[RedmanWasHere]

You were asking if there are equivalents outside Vic - I thought it may help if those outside Vic knew VCAL is.

OH!

Now I understand what you were getting at.

 

[raskolnikov]

What do those outside of Victoria call VCAL?

In Queensland it's QCIA. Queensland Certificate of Individual Achievement

 

[Deliverance]

What do those outside of Victoria call VCAL?

Tasmania calls it university.

 

[Jack Richards]

My school is currently reviewing leadership positions and the need for as many LT and LS. With Covid ruining the last two years it makes it hard to try and keep positive as all my initiatives as the STEM and Inquiry LS have been scrapped (expos) or dragged on as we haven't been having our Action team meetings and focusing on Literacy and Numeracy while lockdown. looking out and have to say it is hard to try and find genuine roles.

Had 1 interview from 5 jobs and all of them went internal. Hate this time of year as it is hard to keep being positive.

 

[Suspense]

This is a quote from a letter responding to an editorial* quoting Noel Pearson.

Explicit teaching without generating student curiosity and inquiry is a recipe for boredom. Inquiry learning without explicit teaching is a recipe for ignorance.

I'm interested in any comments from teachers to the above quote.

*https://www.theaustralian.com.au/co...g/news-story/9aac969e6d8cf259699bd5c71c510b65

I can't read the article - what is the premise wrt explicit teaching? But yes - good teaching involves a combination of both. The appropriate balance depends on the nature of the subject (academic subjects lean towards favouring explicit, creative subjects lean towards favouring inquiry).

 

[Kwality]

I can't read the article - what is the premise wrt explicit teaching? But yes - good teaching involves a combination of both. The appropriate balance depends on the nature of the subject (academic subjects lean towards favouring explicit, creative subjects lean towards favouring inquiry).

The article discusses both & examines the absence of balance in the classroom.

In deference to the rules I wont post the complete article, but see here:
'The debate between teacher-directed explicit instruction and inquiry has been running “for twice as long as the War of the Roses’’, Pearson says. It has coincided with a marked decline in Australians students’ results and increasing numbers leaving school unable to read. Professor Sweller’s conclusions, Pearson notes, “ are borne out in a vast and rigorous evidence base’’. The late Ken Rowe’s 2005 report on the National Reading Inquiry was “a landmark endorsement of explicit instruction in teaching reading, echoing similar inquiries in the US and UK’’. Successful Asian school systems deliver teacher-led instruction in “most to all lessons” and inquiry-based lessons in “some to many lessons”. Of 450 teaching degrees in Australia few teach explicit instruction. Education Minister Alan Tudge, as Pearson notes, is investing in explicit instruction, particularly in Indigenous schools. But there is room for reform across the spectrum. As he says: “That is why we have teachers and … schools – to teach children, rather than setting up discovery adventures that lead nowhere.’’.....'

 

[Suspense]

The article discusses both & examines the absence of balance in the classroom.

In deference to the rules I wont post the complete article, but see here:
'The debate between teacher-directed explicit instruction and inquiry has been running “for twice as long as the War of the Roses’’, Pearson says. It has coincided with a marked decline in Australians students’ results and increasing numbers leaving school unable to read. Professor Sweller’s conclusions, Pearson notes, “ are borne out in a vast and rigorous evidence base’’. The late Ken Rowe’s 2005 report on the National Reading Inquiry was “a landmark endorsement of explicit instruction in teaching reading, echoing similar inquiries in the US and UK’’. Successful Asian school systems deliver teacher-led instruction in “most to all lessons” and inquiry-based lessons in “some to many lessons”. Of 450 teaching degrees in Australia few teach explicit instruction. Education Minister Alan Tudge, as Pearson notes, is investing in explicit instruction, particularly in Indigenous schools. But there is room for reform across the spectrum. As he says: “That is why we have teachers and … schools – to teach children, rather than setting up discovery adventures that lead nowhere.’’.....'

Thanks.

In Victoria, explicit teaching has a significant focus. It (along with structured lessons and worked examples) are three of our ten High Impact Teaching Strategies (HITS). You can read in detail about each of those three strategies below:








These are all teacher-led/driven strategies. Our professional development goals are often tied to how we go about implementing these strategies (along with the others) in our classrooms. I can't speak for all schools, but I haven't been in a school where teachers just waltz into class and aimlessly set the students on a "discovery adventures that lead nowhere". I certainly don't.

Of 450 teaching degrees in Australia few teach explicit instruction.

70% of the content taught in a teaching degree is a waste of time. Never seen a more unnecessarily bloated curriculum full of academics (most of whom couldn't hack being in the classroom) trying to teach people how to teach. All you need to do is name drop Vygotsky and Hattie and mention "differentiation" 15 times in your essays - and you will cruise to a passing grade. The fact that the 1-year dip-ed was bloated out to 2-years shows how much power the universities have in this area (for no net benefit except additional $$$).

After a bachelor degree (or equivalent) in chosen teaching area, teaching should be a six month introductory/basics course followed by a 2 year apprenticeship working alongside a different experienced teachers until the apprentice is ready to teach independently. Too many teachers still guard the privacy of their classroom.

 

[Jack Richards]

Random Question:

How far is too far to travel for promotion/new school?

Currently live about 25km from work (bout half hour with traffic as I leave at 7:15 and get to work at 7:45-7:50).

If they don't renew my contract as a leader, I will most likely leave as I will find it hard to stay.

My wife said try and stick to our council area and the next council across (so Casey + Cardinia) and dont travel much further in km as I will spend more time on the road and $$ on petrol.

I personally google map and see some say between 35-55min if I want to arrive at work by 8:15am ( thus leave at 7:15 still) yea. Want to know others thoughts.

 

[gehend]

How far is too far to travel for a job, or in your specific case being a teacher? I had that conversation not too long ago and we agreed that anything over an hour in terms of one way travel would need to be a job that's incredibly worth it.

 

[wadistance]

How far is too far to travel for a job, or in your specific case being a teacher? I had that conversation not too long ago and we agreed that anything over an hour in terms of one way travel would need to be a job that's incredibly worth it.

I lasted 1,5 years travelling from Coogee beach to Collaroy every day. Mornings it was a 45 min trip. Afternoons it was anywhere from 50mins -> 2 hours. By the end I was shattered. Quit my permanent job on the beaches for a full time one year temporary contract in Bondi - then moved overseas.

Nowadays from door to school with train it’s 30 minutes. Wouldn’t have it any other way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gehend]

I lasted 1,5 years travelling from Coogee beach to Collaroy every day. Mornings it was a 45 min trip. Afternoons it was anywhere from 50mins -> 2 hours. By the end I was shattered. Quit my permanent job on the beaches for a full time one year temporary contract in Bondi - then moved overseas.

Nowadays from door to school with train it’s 30 minutes. Wouldn’t have it any other way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, that makes sense.

Feeling drained before the actual working hours have even started cannot be healthy, especially long term.

I suppose if you actually like, as in genuinely enjoy the commute, then it would be a different story. But, there's only so many hours in the day you can justify to specific travel. I still reckon that one hour mark is a key timeframe for the mindset of a worker.

 

[Jack Richards]

How far is too far to travel for a job, or in your specific case being a teacher? I had that conversation not too long ago and we agreed that anything over an hour in terms of one way travel would need to be a job that's incredibly worth it.

After speaking with colleagues we agreed 30km is probably the max considering the area we are in. That could be anywhere up to 45mins one way.

Received some shit news yesterday that I didn't get my Learning Specialist role for next year. No feedback on my interview (have to wait 2 weeks) just a "Thanks but no thanks". Looks like I will be exploring all teaching jobs that come up (classroom, Lead teacher and Learning Specialist).

Hardest part is now having to be here in this role for the rest of the year where they want me to train the people coming in to do my role while others know that I haven't got it.

Probably moved schools and roles at the worst time as my two years was ruined by Covid-19 so all my initiatives didn't get past the planning and beginning stage as we kept going remote so having to put things on hold and start again.

 

[Deliverance]

After speaking with colleagues we agreed 30km is probably the max considering the area we are in. That could be anywhere up to 45mins one way.

Received some sh*t news yesterday that I didn't get my Learning Specialist role for next year. No feedback on my interview (have to wait 2 weeks) just a "Thanks but no thanks". Looks like I will be exploring all teaching jobs that come up (classroom, Lead teacher and Learning Specialist).

Hardest part is now having to be here in this role for the rest of the year where they want me to train the people coming in to do my role while others know that I haven't got it.

Probably moved schools and roles at the worst time as my two years was ruined by Covid-19 so all my initiatives didn't get past the planning and beginning stage as we kept going remote so having to put things on hold and start again.

See it as a blessing mate. Most learning specialists end up being either ass kissers to the principal or totally driven by ticking boxes for their PDP and disliked by everyone except the leadership team.

 

[Jack Richards]

See it as a blessing mate. Most learning specialists end up being either ass kissers to the principal or totally driven by ticking boxes for their PDP and disliked by everyone except the leadership team.

Yea have an interview at a school for an LS position tomorrow. Hoping I get it

 

[gehend]

Yea have an interview at a school for an LS position tomorrow. Hoping I get it

But still finishing the year at your current school?

 

[Jack Richards]

But still finishing the year at your current school?

Yep.

 

[gehend]

Yep.

Well I hope the interview goes well and you get the job. With so many industry changes at the moment it'd be great to have a positive change.

 

[Jack Richards]

Well I hope the interview goes well and you get the job. With so many industry changes at the moment it'd be great to have a positive change.

Didn't get the job. They said I gave them plenty to think about but I was unsuccessful.

Might take a day off for mental health as there are so many knock backs one can take.

 

[gehend]

Didn't get the job. They said I gave them plenty to think about but I was unsuccessful.

Might take a day off for mental health as there are so many knock backs one can take.

That's true. But even applying and having the interview is getting more experience. Persevere and when you land the job it will be all the more rewarding.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Query re the registration/application process. I'm in the final year of my secondary teaching degree. I've got one final summer unit to complete though. Final results for that university unit should come out at about week three/four of the Vic school term next year. Bit of an annoying timeline to miss the boat on start of year jobs. Is there any point in applying for positions at the start of the year with the permission to teach option? I've heard it's pretty rare to be granted it, and would take a school lodging the application with VIT and showing that they are having trouble filling the position. Doesn't really sound that feasible.

From what I can gather, my best would seem to be waiting for course completion in February and then CRTing for a while with the hope that a position pops up throughout next year?

 

[Suspense]

Query re the registration/application process. I'm in the final year of my secondary teaching degree. I've got one final summer unit to complete though. Final results for that university unit should come out at about week three/four of the Vic school term next year. Bit of an annoying timeline to miss the boat on start of year jobs. Is there any point in applying for positions at the start of the year with the permission to teach option? I've heard it's pretty rare to be granted it, and would take a school lodging the application with VIT and showing that they are having trouble filling the position. Doesn't really sound that feasible.

From what I can gather, my best would seem to be waiting for course completion in February and then CRTing for a while with the hope that a position pops up throughout next year?

I finished mid-year, applied for jobs and was hired without my VIT but had it by the time I started teaching (start of Term 3). The principals were ancy as hell about it - but they were desperate to fill a mid-year position.

I honestly can't see many schools taking the risk - particularly for a Term 1 position - given you have yet to finish the course and they would have to re-hire if something fell through. Assuming we are not in remote learning next year, I think doing CRT for a few months and then looking for position during the year is not a terrible outcome. Gives you the ability to teach at a range of different schools without commitment and the opportunity to just focus on your classroom management practice (rather than planning, admin etc.).

 

[superfraser]

Query re the registration/application process. I'm in the final year of my secondary teaching degree. I've got one final summer unit to complete though. Final results for that university unit should come out at about week three/four of the Vic school term next year. Bit of an annoying timeline to miss the boat on start of year jobs. Is there any point in applying for positions at the start of the year with the permission to teach option? I've heard it's pretty rare to be granted it, and would take a school lodging the application with VIT and showing that they are having trouble filling the position. Doesn't really sound that feasible.

From what I can gather, my best would seem to be waiting for course completion in February and then CRTing for a while with the hope that a position pops up throughout next year?

Keep an eye on the Tutor Learning Initiative. If it is continued into 2022, it would be a back door into getting work in a school with Permission to Teach fast tracked.

 

[gehend]

Man management in employment is important in any endeavour & getting the best from people is a skill regardless of their age.
Growing those you employ is very satisfying & having them head hunted is a measure of that success. For others it may be as simple as encouragement.
People naturally rank themselves is my experience, they know who is doing a better job.

I was thinking about this today, and I completely agree. Especially with the "regardless of their age" part. Not just in teaching, I'd be interested to know how Australia stacks up to other nations with how our employers treat their new employees who are of an older age bracket.

With I'm sure a lot of career/job changes happening in the next year due to the obvious, I'd say man management is going to be extremely important. And as you said, the reward goes both ways.

 

[gehend]

Of course, the teaching landscape will always evolve, but the next year or so it's very important (in terms of the employees management) for schools to get things right.