Secondary Thinking about becoming a teacher

[Jack Richards]

Good bit of journalism to get coalface perspectives

The teachers are not alright - ABC listen

The COVID-19 pandemic has challenged schools across the country like never before, but it's also shone a light on existing issues within the profession such as a chronic shortage of specialised teachers and growing workload stress. Reporter Mayeta Clark follows teachers in public schools in...

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I get that to an extent. But the biggest issues I see in the profession:
Lack Of secure employment

As s teacher, I knew I would be signing up to a big workload. It's the way the department is operating. They want their data and evidence and Prins cop the major brunt when they get their reviews.

What the biggest con however before the pandemic arose was the teacher shortage. There just wasnt one which reflected in the amount of fixed term contracts in Victoria being posted. I was told by AEU that we need fixed term positions to cover for Family leave, Leave without pay etc and that won't change.

But it's not long term viable for teachers who have/want mortgages and families. Also when you are up the pay scale this becomes more problematic as schools focus on their budget each year. Graduates become more appealing at their $70-$80K a year over a teacher on $108K.

Victoria needs a centralised system for employment so it's easier for teachers to transfer and get employment. Especially if they are up the pay scale.

My case was:

I was near top at my first school after being there for 8 years. I wanted a change of scenary and began applying to newly built schools (opening the following year). Not even an interview as many the prins took from their previous school. Same again for 2 years.

I decided to go for leading teacher roles. Got one but due to the environment and my tenure being up, I wanted another move. I applied for over 100 positions but no ongoing opportunities. Only a fixed term position on the last week of Term 4

 

[raskolnikov]

I get that to an extent. But the biggest issues I see in the profession:
Lack Of secure employment

As s teacher, I knew I would be signing up to a big workload. It's the way the department is operating. They want their data and evidence and Prins cop the major brunt when they get their reviews.

What the biggest con however before the pandemic arose was the teacher shortage. There just wasnt one which reflected in the amount of fixed term contracts in Victoria being posted. I was told by AEU that we need fixed term positions to cover for Family leave, Leave without pay etc and that won't change.

But it's not long term viable for teachers who have/want mortgages and families. Also when you are up the pay scale this becomes more problematic as schools focus on their budget each year. Graduates become more appealing at their $70-$80K a year over a teacher on $108K.

Victoria needs a centralised system for employment so it's easier for teachers to transfer and get employment. Especially if they are up the pay scale.

My case was:

I was near top at my first school after being there for 8 years. I wanted a change of scenary and began applying to newly built schools (opening the following year). Not even an interview as many the prins took from their previous school. Same again for 2 years.

I decided to go for leading teacher roles. Got one but due to the environment and my tenure being up, I wanted another move. I applied for over 100 positions but no ongoing opportunities. Only a fixed term position on the last week of Term 4

The reason I moved to Queensland was that as an experienced teacher I could not get a job in Victoria.

 

[bUCKET__]

True dat. A review of the merit and equity process would go a long way too. You can't even appeal an appointment in Vic unless you're already ongoing. So when a school does a dodgy and the prin hires their old mates without a care for merit, there's nothing that can be done.

 

[Jack Richards]

True dat. A review of the merit and equity process would go a long way too. You can't even appeal an appointment in Vic unless you're already ongoing. So when a school does a dodgy and the prin hires their old mates without a care for merit, there's nothing that can be done.

As a 4th year student teacher my mentor told me never to appeal (he was the prin and 3-6 teacher) as your name gets dragged through mud by other prins.

 

[CrowToon]

Teaching is a piece of piss so long as you have no standards, the school have no standards and the community have no standards.

 

[Jack Richards]

Teaching is a piece of piss so long as you have no standards, the school have no standards and the community have no standards.

These schools don't exist anymore

 

[CrowToon]

These schools don't exist anymore

They do in the regional spaces. Plenty of them.

 

[Jack Richards]

Tomorrow begins Term 3.

I applied for a couple of Ongoing jobs as I am only on fixed term and the school I am in has 7 of us on contracts.

I love the school but need security for my family. Downside if never knowing if the position has people already in it at this stage of the year.

 

[gordo2016]

Teaching is a piece of piss so long as you have no standards, the school have no standards and the community have no standards.

I have never seen a school without any standards. Even if you were a teacher with no standards and they accepted it, you would have to work there for the rest of your life to get away with it. Move to another school and do the same thing and you would last 5 minutes.

 

[Forward Press]

Tomorrow begins Term 3.

I applied for a couple of Ongoing jobs as I am only on fixed term and the school I am in has 7 of us on contracts.

I love the school but need security for my family. Downside if never knowing if the position has people already in it at this stage of the year.

It's f***ing diabolical (apologies to Billy Butcher). I hope you get permanency at a place you like. Too much politics involved nowadays and effort often goes unrewarded. All the best mate.

 

[Jack Richards]

It's f***ing diabolical (apologies to Billy Butcher). I hope you get permanency at a place you like. Too much politics involved nowadays and effort often goes unrewarded. All the best mate.

It's disheartening when you see the news articles saying "there is a shortage"... there isn't. It's just they want more CRTs and Contracts.

One school I know only hire CRTs that work there or grads who do placements there over outsiders.

It's become a who you know job.

 

[Jack Richards]

Had a call for an ongoing position interview to commence mid term. Knocked it back as I wanted to stick out and do right by my school. They called my prin before calling me which was a shock to them. They chatted to me and said I am panicking and he understands the situation.

The prin was greatful that I turned down interview and said that there was a very good chance they could give me another year there or make me ongoing as he wants to keep us all there and with my 10 year experience, they need more experienced teachers as a lot left.

Not sure if they were just saying that but hoping they meant it.

Just not sure if my base school will play nicely as they lost a lot of teachers this year (one class is onto their 3rd teacher this year so far). Was told if that was the case (not allow a 2nd year leave), I would have to either forfeit the ongoing or go back.

Not sure what to do as I can't afford to live on contracts as a sole income earner his late 30s with a family and mortgage.

 

[Suspense]

Had a call for an ongoing position interview to commence mid term. Knocked it back as I wanted to stick out and do right by my school. They called my prin before calling me which was a shock to them. They chatted to me and said I am panicking and he understands the situation.

The prin was greatful that I turned down interview and said that there was a very good chance they could give me another year there or make me ongoing as he wants to keep us all there and with my 10 year experience, they need more experienced teachers as a lot left.

Not sure if they were just saying that but hoping they meant it.

Just not sure if my base school will play nicely as they lost a lot of teachers this year (one class is onto their 3rd teacher this year so far). Was told if that was the case (not allow a 2nd year leave), I would have to either forfeit the ongoing or go back.

Not sure what to do as I can't afford to live on contracts as a sole income earner his late 30s with a family and mortgage.

How long have you been at current school?

I don't know the specifics of your circumstances, but when I was on contract, I told current Prin that I would be applying for several ongoing positions elsewhere. They said they would prefer to make me ongoing at the end of my contract but understood the importance of job security. They gave a glowing reference and I got the ongoing position elsewhere. None of this bolded nonsense.

 

[Forward Press]

Agreed, in your position I would leverage your circumstances to try and secure further employment with the school. You really want to keep me on? Give me a contract, because understandably I need to look out for myself first and hence the applications and interviews elsewhere.

If they are really grateful, the principal would demonstrate that with something in front of you to sign.

 

[Jack Richards]

How long have you been at current school?

I don't know the specifics of your circumstances, but when I was on contract, I told current Prin that I would be applying for several ongoing positions elsewhere. They said they would prefer to make me ongoing at the end of my contract but understood the importance of job security. They gave a glowing reference and I got the ongoing position elsewhere. None of this bolded nonsense.

This is my first year as a temp transfer on a 12month contract.

I spoke to the union and they said that all teachers on fixed term (and not ongoing elsewhere) get priority to be made ongoing before me under merit and equity as they put in the previous agreement to give job security for teachers.

I'll still be looking elsewhere if he cant give me ongoing at years end.

Forward Press I was tempted but can understand his hands are tied.

 

[renaessance]

Why can't the principle offer you a contract if they want to keep you?

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Why can't the principle offer you a contract if they want to keep you?

In principle, the principal could offer a contract.

 

[Shane Sheridan]

One of the absolute positives and a reminder of the impact we have occurred today. Ex-student who graduated 15 years ago contacted me during the week and wanted to catch up, say hello. I never had this kid in any of my classes, but he was in the friendship group of kids that I did teach. Good chat with him, his life's going very well, had a stint in Europe chasing his soccer dream, now settled in Perth about to get married. Couple of things brought up were things I didn't remember, chats I had with him at the time, he remembered me having a kick to kick with him for a couple of minutes. Really nice to hear that I had a positive impact and also that he was extremely grateful for the little things that we as teachers do that we don't think matter, but for kids they definitely do.

 

[Jack Richards]

In principle, the principal could offer a contract.

AEU have stated it's all merit and equity (I called them to clarify):

There are currently 7 of us on Fixed Term contract. The other teachers on leave who we are all filling in for have until Oct 1st to let him know their intention: come back, take another year or forfeit ongoing status.

If say 5 don't come back, the teachers on Fixed Term with no base school (and served 12months at the school already) get first priority.. in this case all 5 we have get them. If only 3 ongoing come up, those teachers go into internal interview process and myself and one other who have ongoing employment at other schools miss out.

Basically I'm at the bottom of the pecking order as I have a base school to go back to (no matter how mentally stressful that place is). I'll apply for ongoing that has a start date for next year and cover both bases so if he gives ongoing - great (I'll call school and say no) or if he doesnt - it wasn't meant to be.

 

[Kwality]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/universities-set-low-bar-to-take-subpar-students/news-story/9691c2f2b30d15c2d783802156705ab4

'Aspiring teachers can access seven different education degrees with ATAR scores 50 and below, sparking protests from the teachers’ union on Friday.


Australian Education Union president Correna Haythorpe warned that students with an ATAR lower than the average of 70 were likely to fail a teaching degree.'
“Low university-entry scores for teaching degrees is a growing concern,’’ she said.

“Evidence suggests that students admitted with low ATARs are likely to be less successful at university and are less likely to complete their course.

“The bar must be raised by setting minimum entry requirements and making teaching a two-year postgraduate degree.’’

'A Federation University spokeswoman blamed an “administrative error’’ for admitting a student with an ATAR of 37 to a teaching degree this year.'
“We have investigated this matter with the Victorian Teaching Institute, and we are both satisfied that the student is doing well and should be allowed to complete the course,’’ she said.

The federal Education Department said it did not yet know how many students were failing, and losing taxpayer funding, as a result of the former Coalition government’s Job-Ready Graduates legislation that will be reviewed by the new Labor government later this year.


Federal Education Department data shows that more than 13,000 students with below-50 ATAR scores applied for university last year, with 55 per cent accepted.
Another 30,000 students applied with ATARs between 50 and 70, with three-quarters accepted, while nearly all the 29,000 applicants with an ATAR above 90 enrolled in a degree.

Higher education policy expert Andrew Norton, professor in the practice of higher education policy at the Centre for Social Research and Methods at the Australian National University, warned that students admitted with low academic results were the most likely to drop out of university.
He said half the students with an ATAR below 50 would fail to complete their course.

 

[Jack Richards]

Just saw my base school's leave policy updated. Now they won't be giving staff LWOP to work at any other school for 2023. A sign that they will be asking all teachers on fixed term contracts to come back next year (and as such won't allow them to take another year).

Really concerned for my mental health and wellbeing as I don't particularly want to be there and get spat at, punched, sworn and abused day and in and day out.

Just hope my current prin has something for me at years end that's ongoing and not fixed term. But with 9 of us in the same boat, it's not looking great.

 

[Suspense]

Just saw my base school's leave policy updated. Now they won't be giving staff LWOP to work at any other school for 2023. A sign that they will be asking all teachers on fixed term contracts to come back next year (and as such won't allow them to take another year).

Really concerned for my mental health and wellbeing as I don't particularly want to be there and get spat at, punched, sworn and abused day and in and day out.

Just hope my current prin has something for me at years end that's ongoing and not fixed term. But with 9 of us in the same boat, it's not looking great.

When do you need to tell the base school whether you will be returning in 2023?

Personally, I would at least be keeping a close eye on other ongoing roles at this point - and applying for any that fit your criteria. With the current teacher shortage, the reduction in F2F hours in 2023 AND schools changing their leave policy (as your base school did - which frees up ongoing roles), there will be plenty of ongoing roles becoming available between now and the end of the spring racing carnival. Years end is too late as most of those roles will be filled by then.

 

[Jack Richards]

Personally, I would at least be keeping a close eye on other ongoing roles at this point - and applying for any that fit your criteria. With the current teacher shortage, the reduction in F2F hours in 2023 AND schools changing their leave policy (as your base school did - which frees up ongoing roles), there will be plenty of ongoing roles becoming available between now and the end of the spring racing carnival. Years end is too late as most of those roles will be filled by then.

They haven't contacted me yet but my current school's is October 1st (that teachers need to tell the Prin).

He is hoping to keep all of us but is following merit and equity (also i am one of 9 on fixed term). I know who is getting the 1 that just came up (my team leader) as they invested a lot of pd time into them and they are in their 3rd year of leave from base school.

I have been applying for any ongoing that comes up but nothing so far has eventuated as they are mostly going internal.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

How many of those wanting ongoing appointments would be willing to move to a regional or remote area? Someone mentioned they moved interstate for a job - are opportunities better in some states?

 

[Jack Richards]

How many of those wanting ongoing appointments would be willing to move to a regional or remote area? Someone mentioned they moved interstate for a job - are opportunities better in some states?

With a family, I am prepared to travel up to 35-40minutes.

Wife has basically said no to moving as she has elderly parents and is the only child so wants to be close to her family.