This is why Collingwood get blockbuster games......

[Hawkk]

Yes I think we do.

Haha at lions_den the bandwagon jumped on in 1897 and haven't jumped off yet, we might only abandon ship if we get relegated to the VFL. Then again we already have our own side in that.

Okay.

Say the Bulldogs played against Essendon on ANZAC Day drew 65,000 and played against Hawthorn and Geelong at the MCG in games drawing 55-60,000.

Leaving Collingwood to play Essendon at TD - 50,000 (89,000) Hawthorn in Tasmania - 20,000 (76,000) and Geelong at Skilled Stadium (78,000)

Like I said, Collingwood obviously have a lot of fans, probably the most, which explains why they play so many of these supposed 'blockbusters.' But the draw does play a massive role in the huge descrepencies between some clubs and the rest.

Nothing against Collingwood playing these games, but you've got to mention this before you start comparing your 60,000 numbers against other clubs

 

[Hawkk]

Essendon v Carlton or richmond always gets a bigger crowd than Essendon v North; Geelong; Hawks; Dogs etc.

Not every year

Hawthorn-Essendon drew 55,000 in the wet last year (on a Sunday to boot)

Carlton-Essendon drew 49,000 on a Saturday afternoon and the infamous 'Dreamtime' game only drew 60,000, with all the hype

Geelong-Essendon drew a 50,000 seat sell out at the TD last year.

 

[Hawkk]

What exactly is your argument then? Your saying Essendon and Collingwood are 2 of the biggest clubs out of your 4 but you dont think they should be allowed to play at the bigger grounds reguarly?

Collingwood and Essendon are without doubt the biggest Victorian clubs in the league, the fact that they do play at the bigger grounds do inflate their numbers in comparison to the rest of the competition plays a role if your comparing drawing power against other clubs...nothing against them playing at the bigger grounds regularly though.

 

[magpies10]

Okay.

Say the Bulldogs played against Essendon on ANZAC Day drew 65,000 and played against Hawthorn and Geelong at the MCG in games drawing 55-60,000.

Leaving Collingwood to play Essendon at TD - 50,000 (89,000) Hawthorn in Tasmania - 20,000 (76,000) and Geelong at Skilled Stadium (78,000)

Like I said, Collingwood obviously have a lot of fans, probably the most, which explains why they play so many of these supposed 'blockbusters.' But the draw does play a massive role in the huge descrepencies between some clubs and the rest.

But when we play at the Dome usually 20,000 people miss out on tickets, when the Hawks play for example the Roos you got around the 40,000 mark meaning 10,000 people still could have gone who didn't, even at the G you might have got 50,000.

 

[i_hate_scams]

But when we play at the Dome usually 20,000 people miss out on tickets, when the Hawks play for example the Roos you got around the 40,000 mark meaning 10,000 people still could have gone who didn't, even at the G you might have got 50,000.

exactly.

 

[Hawkk]

But when we play at the Dome usually 20,000 people miss out on tickets,

Usually, not sure about that.

when the Hawks play for example the Roos you got around the 40,000 mark meaning 10,000 people still could have gone who didn't, even at the G you might have got 50,000.

Which is what you got to the North game this year.

Im not arguing that my club is bigger then yours, that's just stupid, Im just pointing out that the draw does play a role in the HUGE descrepencies.

 

[magpies10]

Usually, not sure about that.



Which is what you got to the North game this year.

Im not arguing that my club is bigger then yours, that's just stupid, Im just pointing out that the draw does play a role in the HUGE descrepencies.

Yeah well I do agree on that, but I think that people shouldn't miss out on going to a game so our attendance figures drop back to level with others, if we pull big attendances than we should play on venues which can hold bigger crowds

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

Okay.

Say the Bulldogs played against Essendon on ANZAC Day drew 65,000 and played against Hawthorn and Geelong at the MCG in games drawing 55-60,000.

Leaving Collingwood to play Essendon at TD - 50,000 (89,000) Hawthorn in Tasmania - 20,000 (76,000) and Geelong at Skilled Stadium (78,000)

Like I said, Collingwood obviously have a lot of fans, probably the most, which explains why they play so many of these supposed 'blockbusters.' But the draw does play a massive role in the huge descrepencies between some clubs and the rest.

Nothing against Collingwood playing these games, but you've got to mention this before you start comparing your 60,000 numbers against other clubs

So what's your point? If you stop 50,000 people going to every collingwood match, Collingwood would average 50,000 less a game?

Can you provide the examples of bulldogs - hawthorn / geelong games that drew near 55 to 60 thousand estimates that you are forming your hypothetical on?

Should the AFL have second guessed that a team that didn't make the finals last year and a team that finished 6th were going to be 1st and 3rd half way through the year?

 

[Hawkk]

So what's your point? If you stop 50,000 people going to every collingwood match, Collingwood would average 50,000 less a game?

No one wants to see less fans going, but if your going to accurately compare clubs like for like, the fact you play these games at the bigger stadium comes into consideration.

Can you provide the examples of bulldogs - hawthorn / geelong games that drew near 55 to 60 thousand estimates that you are forming your hypothetical on?

Neither has happened.

Although Hawthorn did draw 50,000 to their MCG game against Sydney last year (top 4 clash) and Geelong sold out their TD game against North on the run home last year.

Based on that, 55-60,000 would have been a possiblity?

Should the AFL have second guessed that a team that didn't make the finals last year and a team that finished 6th were going to be 1st and 3rd half way through the year?

No ones suggesting that, just pointing out that the draw plays a role in the HUGE descrepencies between the Collingwood, Essendon's and the rest, particularly compared to North Melbourne and the Bulldogs.

Collingwood's numbers are great, but its unfair to compare their 60,000+ crowds to some of the other clubs given these advantages, the Bulldogs being the case in point.

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

No ones suggesting that, just pointing out that the draw plays a role in the HUGE descrepencies between the Collingwood, Essendon's and the rest, particularly compared to North Melbourne and the Bulldogs.

Collingwood's numbers are great, but its unfair to compare their 60,000+ crowds to some of the other clubs given these advantages, the Bulldogs being the case in point.

Sure it plays a role in the HUGE discrepencies, just not a huge role. We've played both WC and freo at the G this year and averaged 49,000.

We play E,C,R 5 times this year. In an unrigged draw we would should average 4.3 games per year againts them. We also play games at telstra dome that constrain our attendances such as against your mob last year and the saints, dogs, north and swans this year that could all be argued to draw a bigger crowd at the G (and in our case with supporting examples for each where we have actually drawn considerably greater than 50,000 to a H and A.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

Richmond - third highest attendance last year despite only 3 1/2 wins and a wooden spoon (not bad for our supposed "notoriously fickle" fans) ....also in 1972, the first sporting team in Australia to top the 1 million mark for a season attendance.
-So , eat shit all you tryhards , wannabes , fairweather fan clubs and manufactured franchises - that , kiddies , is why we're Big 4.

 

[Pie eyed]

You answered your own question, because those four clubs you mentioned are playing at the bigger stadiums, gaining more money, hence forcing other clubs to seek alternative ways to gain some money to become financially stable.

Do you even understand what you are saying?

The bums the big 4 put on seats are what earns the money that the AFL distributes to ALL the teams in the AFL.

Was it or was it not your club which was on the brink of annihilation very, very recently?

Wake up and smell the roses.

We don't expect you to like us but for god sake at least bag us in a thread which you at least understand the basic facts.

The figures posted by the OP are "incontrovertible proof" of why Collingwood and the other "big drawing" sides get the blockbusters.

"incontrovertible proof"....that the AFL will always go the option which is most profitable.

"incontrovertible proof"....that the major ground owners will always prefer the sides which fill seats.

"incontrovertible proof"....that the television newtworks will always pay for the games most people will watch eg. the biggest audience.

Incontrovertible proof is incontrovertible.

(Big4+$$$)=(AFL+/SVC)
The Big4 make money. This makes the AFL happy and they divide the profits among all the clubs which should make the Struggling Victorian Clubs very happy.

Personally I would be very happy to have a trial system, where each club keeps it's entire gate for 3 seasons, It's audience percentage of the TV deal and it's total percentage of sold merchandising for the same....

Bye bye to Hawthorn, Tassy bound briefly but destined for the Blackhole of history.
Bye bye Melbourne, North, Saints.

You should be great full that we put bums on seats!

 

[dave10]

Okay.

Say the Bulldogs played against Essendon on ANZAC Day drew 65,000 and played against Hawthorn and Geelong at the MCG in games drawing 55-60,000.

Leaving Collingwood to play Essendon at TD - 50,000 (89,000) Hawthorn in Tasmania - 20,000 (76,000) and Geelong at Skilled Stadium (78,000)

Like I said, Collingwood obviously have a lot of fans, probably the most, which explains why they play so many of these supposed 'blockbusters.' But the draw does play a massive role in the huge descrepencies between some clubs and the rest.

Nothing against Collingwood playing these games, but you've got to mention this before you start comparing your 60,000 numbers against other clubs

I think we need to put all this into perspective. Hawthorn are riding the crest of a wave on field and are seeing their crowds increase accordingly. Their Melbourne attendance average is sort of inflated because they play games against many interstate clubs at Tasmania and not in Melbourne, hence their Melbourne attendance average for home games is not 'reduced' by games against these interstate clubs (unlike Collingwood or Essendon). Hawthorn are winning and drawing good crowds, however, it would be interesting to see how they pull against these interstate clubs at the MCG if they were not vying for the final 8.

Despite their ladder leading ways, Hawthorn are a long way behind Collingwood in drawing capacity. I believe Collingwoods crowd against West Coast last weekend was a sort of 'landmark' crowd for the Pies - 52,000 against the Eagles was a great effort and only the second time a Melbourne club has pulled 50,000 against the Coasters in Melbourne for a home and away game.

One things for sure, Collingwood and Essendon will consistently draw over 30,000 regularly against these clubs even in their leanest of years (and 40 - 50,000 in years of on field success). They have proved this over many years. Hawthorn are yet to prove their drawing strength against interstate clubs in Melbourne during lean years on field - that is the true test of a clubs latent supporter base and we may be 5 years or more away from being able to truely test Hawthorns drawing strenght in Melbourne..

 

[The Casey Cat]

I hate to tell Geelong and Hawthorn supporters this, but you're no different to all Victorian teams.

You can draw a crowd when flying.

No we are not and I for one am not saying we are. It would just as ####ing stupid if we had Bulldogs V North early last year and not till round 20 this year while Carlton play Essendon 4 times.

The draw is completely random. Thats how we dont play Hawthorn until round 22 despite breaking the attendance record at the Dump last year.

Get your facts straight first please.

The AFL gets more money from stadium deals at the MCG (and even the dome to an extent) by selling the idea of Big 4 teams playing there as much as possible which means we get Carlton V Richmond, Collingwood V Essendon, etc twice a season yet have ridiculous situations like Hawthorn V Geelong, Hawthorn V Carlton not playing for well over a year.

It's random only to a certain extent.

 

[Adrian Shelton]

Imagine how Hawthorn home games would be now if all of them were at a home ground that could seat 70000+.......er whoops!!!!

 

[serenityNow]

The Big 4 are Collingwood, Essendon, West Coast, Adelaide.

Reason: Will draw Big crowds & Team support week-in, week-out, year-in, year-out regardless of team success.


When you can prove your team achieves this, you can be a big 4.

I'd like to see this proven. The Eagles have been a proud and successful club to date. They have never sat at the bottom of the ladder for say.....3-4 consecutive years. Yeah the eagles make money and pull a crowd and all that.....but dont sit their and say you get support regardless of success because you cant back that up.

Richmond can.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Can anyone here tell me of any other sporting code anywhere else in the world, where two teams have 'exclusive rights' to certain fixtures every year regardless of where they sit on the ladder? No, I didn't think so.

If I have to watch another mediocre Anzac Day performance from two teams that belong in the bottom part of the ladder - I will throw up. As for another blockbuster Carlton v Richmond - let's not go there.

Just a couple of points to throw into the pot. Footscray (as it was known then) was the first club to crack 10,000 memberships - so I guess we were the original 'big 1'. I would also add that the 2006 final we played against Collingwood was not all Collingwood fans - there was close to a 50/50 breakdown, and I was quietly amused at the look of shock on some of the Collingwood supporters sitting near me when we found our voice.

Finally for those Collingwood supporters who think that they are entitled to see their team play each week at the G and thanks to them we get a handout. I would remind you that because of your exclusive fixture we are paid by the AFL to equalise the game. I would be happy for the dogs not to take the money and play North Melbourne on Anzac Day, after all it is the only game played that day, it is on free to air TV - of course it well be a sellout.

 

[serenityNow]

I think we need to put all this into perspective. Hawthorn are riding the crest of a wave on field and are seeing their crowds increase accordingly. Their Melbourne attendance average is sort of inflated because they play games against many interstate clubs at Tasmania and not in Melbourne, hence their Melbourne attendance average for home games is not 'reduced' by games against these interstate clubs (unlike Collingwood or Essendon). Hawthorn are winning and drawing good crowds, however, it would be interesting to see how they pull against these interstate clubs at the MCG if they were not vying for the final 8.

Despite their ladder leading ways, Hawthorn are a long way behind Collingwood in drawing capacity. I believe Collingwoods crowd against West Coast last weekend was a sort of 'landmark' crowd for the Pies - 52,000 against the Eagles was a great effort and only the second time a Melbourne club has pulled 50,000 against the Coasters in Melbourne for a home and away game.

One things for sure, Collingwood and Essendon will consistently draw over 30,000 regularly against these clubs even in their leanest of years (and 40 - 50,000 in years of on field success). They have proved this over many years. Hawthorn are yet to prove their drawing strength against interstate clubs in Melbourne during lean years on field - that is the true test of a clubs latent supporter base and we may be 5 years or more away from being able to truely test Hawthorns drawing strenght in Melbourne..

 

[boncer34]

Collingwood and Essendon are without doubt the biggest Victorian clubs in the league, the fact that they do play at the bigger grounds do inflate their numbers in comparison to the rest of the competition plays a role if your comparing drawing power against other clubs...nothing against them playing at the bigger grounds regularly though.

So thats a nice total u-turn you've done.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Can anyone here tell me of any other sporting code anywhere else in the world, where two teams have 'exclusive rights' to certain fixtures every year regardless of where they sit on the ladder? No, I didn't think so.

If I have to watch another mediocre Anzac Day performance from two teams that belong in the bottom part of the ladder - I will throw up. As for another blockbuster Carlton v Richmond - let's not go there.

Just a couple of points to throw into the pot. Footscray (as it was known then) was the first club to crack 10,000 memberships - so I guess we were the original 'big 1'. I would also add that the 2006 final we played against Collingwood was not all Collingwood fans - there was close to a 50/50 breakdown, and I was quietly amused at the look of shock on some of the Collingwood supporters sitting near me when we found our voice.

Finally for those Collingwood supporters who think that they are entitled to see their team play each week at the G and thanks to them we get a handout. I would remind you that because of your exclusive fixture we are paid by the AFL to equalise the game. I would be happy for the dogs not to take the money and play North Melbourne on Anzac Day, after all it is the only game played that day, it is on free to air TV - of course it well be a sellout.

Yep this is pretty much the issue for me. I am happy for Pies and Dons to keep Anzac Day but that's it and one of every two years they should play Anzac day only.

It is just ridiculous and pathetic. I'm sure the NBA would make much more from TV revenue if they had Lakers V Celtics or Knicks (yeah they're crap but still heavily supported) 8 times a year but they keep it consistent across the board.

 

[Carn the Coasters]

I'd like to see this proven. The Eagles have been a proud and successful club to date. They have never sat at the bottom of the ladder for say.....3-4 consecutive years. Yeah the eagles make money and pull a crowd and all that.....but dont sit their and say you get support regardless of success because you cant back that up.

Richmond can.

How many Richmond fans would attend during the tough times? Just wondering because their average figures would be boosted by playing other teams from the same state. If they averaged 45k at games, its doubtful many more than 25k on average were Richmond fans. West Coast are unlikely to have less than 25k at games any time soon.

EDIT: just checked. Richmond's average home crowd was just 38k last year. So probably only around 20-25k were their supporters. Thats not many compared to the interstate sides. Heck, even Freo would average more at their home games (easily!) and they have never had any success.

 

[robaba]

It's great that Collingwood get so many fans turn up. I think the AFL should change the rules to guarantee that Collingwood play in the GF every year.

 

[Mang08]

That 60000+ Friday Game game back in 98 should have been the start of the Dogs and Roos rise to 'big 4' status. I guess there were ways to bop that on the head though from various angles.......

Contender for best H&A game ever.

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

Can anyone here tell me of any other sporting code anywhere else in the world, where two teams have 'exclusive rights' to certain fixtures every year regardless of where they sit on the ladder? No, I didn't think so.

If I have to watch another mediocre Anzac Day performance from two teams that belong in the bottom part of the ladder - I will throw up. As for another blockbuster Carlton v Richmond - let's not go there.

Just a couple of points to throw into the pot. Footscray (as it was known then) was the first club to crack 10,000 memberships - so I guess we were the original 'big 1'. I would also add that the 2006 final we played against Collingwood was not all Collingwood fans - there was close to a 50/50 breakdown, and I was quietly amused at the look of shock on some of the Collingwood supporters sitting near me when we found our voice.

Finally for those Collingwood supporters who think that they are entitled to see their team play each week at the G and thanks to them we get a handout. I would remind you that because of your exclusive fixture we are paid by the AFL to equalise the game. I would be happy for the dogs not to take the money and play North Melbourne on Anzac Day, after all it is the only game played that day, it is on free to air TV - of course it well be a sellout.

50 50 breakdown for the 2006 final? nice one.

dogs north sellout the G on anzac day? nice one.

equalisation is worth millions to the dogs and, along with the salary cap and the draft, is the only reason the dogs can put a team on the park that can get within 20 goals of the big clubs.

 

[M-Train]

those figures just state that Collingwood fans are just bandwagoners

When we were down the bottom a couple of years ago, we still lead the league in attendances buddy!

Dont give me, Collingwood have 18 games in Melbourne...... and only 4 at the dome. The 'educated' know there is a reason for that.

My point is Collingwood is now bigger than the dome... my opinion is we should only play interstate sides there.... being an lifelong AFL member and having gone to nearly every game for the last couple of years, it is ridiculous that I cant get a ticket to the game as it is already sold out.

Gee Wiz..... We had 52,000 against WC over the weekend. We consistently have the biggest attendance each week in the paper!

Everyone knows, all the victorian clubs request a home game against Collingwood during fixture creation time, as Collingwood keeps half the 'Melbourne' clubs alive.... ala Queens B'Day! (Pardon the 'PUN'!)