This is why Collingwood get blockbuster games......

[swiftdog]

You agreed with my post except for 'Collingwood's figures are increased by a rigged draw'? And then outline to me some reasons why this is so, and point out that because Hawthorn and Geelong can choose Tassie and Kardinia as home venues, you should get to play at the MCG all the time because it is your home venue?

I don't really understand what you are on about.

Yes, clearly the draw is compromised in chase of dollars. That is pretty obvious. I am not actually debating the merits of this (fwiw, I'd suggest they balanced it just a little bit. Still give Collingwood the 'blockbuster' status, but just not so heavily. Promote other clubs a bit more, and the pie - pardon the pun - only gets bigger. As I said though, I'm not debating any of this here). All I am saying is that because of this rigged draw, Collingwoods figures are boosted. The reasons for the rigged draw are immaterial, the end result is Collingwood gets to play all the juicy timeslots, enabling the crowd to be maximised. This is why the AFL called it a 'crowd maximisation policy', because what they are trying to do is get as many people to go as they can. When this works, it becomes just a little circular to use this as evidence as to why they should be given the best fixtures.

Yeah, fair enough. My point was based on 'rigging' of the draw which, in reality, is because of other clubs requests. My end bit was spit and dribble, all hypothetical and made no sense whatsoever, just ignore it.

 

[Captain_Judd]

2008 AFL Attendance
Team Games Total Average
Collingwood Magpies 10 624,553 62,455

2007 AFL Attendance
Team Games Total Average
Collingwood Magpies 25 1,432,878 57,315

2006 AFL Attendance
Team Games Total Average
Collingwood Magpies 23 1,249,266 54,315

2005 AFL Attendance
Team Games Total Average
Collingwood Magpies 22 1,003,829 45,628

Impressive.

 

[Mr Lizard]

Yeah, fair enough. My point was based on 'rigging' of the draw which, in reality, is because of other clubs requests. My end bit was spit and dribble, all hypothetical and made no sense whatsoever, just ignore it.

I wasn't having a go at you, I didn't mean to sound harsh or anything. You are right, every Melbourne based club wants (and requests) to play Collingwood at the 'G on a Friday night or a Saturday arvo, because it gets the best crowds, best exposure, etc.

I'm just pointing out that it is because of these requests (in part) that you get the big crowd figures.


I'm hopeful that the AFL isn't so short sighted that it continues to do this forever. Someone suggested earlier the AFL are consolidating the national league first, then will turn attention to giving all clubs a crack at the big games and big exposure. That makes sense. I hope they are right.

It was great going to see the Hawks v Collingwood in front of 75,000 people and not just because we won. The atmosphere was incredible. I'm a little jealous that you guys get that every week.

 

[Hawkk]

Yeah, fair enough. My point was based on 'rigging' of the draw which, in reality, is because of other clubs requests. My end bit was spit and dribble, all hypothetical and made no sense whatsoever, just ignore it.

Couldn't agree more.

Realistically every club wants to play Collingwood (even clubs based interstate) The reality is that Collingwood bring the 'big game' feel to their games, be that because of the sheer volume of support they bring to games, the fact that most if not all of their games are in prime time fan friendly timeslots (because they rate on TV) or because the 'big game' atmosphere generally rewards the club by bringing more of their own fans to games.

Comparing Collingwood games is similar to comparing Manchester United or Liverpool games in the UK, these are the games that opposition clubs drool over. Not just because of the exposure and huge crowds the clubs brings to the games, but the fact that by playing the 'biggest' club, more of their home members and corporates mark it down as the 'must see' game for the season and make a point of going to the game.

It wouldn't surprise me if by playing Collingwood or the reigning premier, clubs experience an increase in membership on the back of hosting these games compared to those that miss out.

Dont get me wrong Collingwood are great for the game and its not their fault EVERY club nominates them on their wishlist, but in a perfect world it'd be wonderful if every club played each other once or twice, for the integrity of the competition.

 

[richardnose]

I wasn't having a go at you, I didn't mean to sound harsh or anything. You are right, every Melbourne based club wants (and requests) to play Collingwood at the 'G on a Friday night or a Saturday arvo, because it gets the best crowds, best exposure, etc.

I'm just pointing out that it is because of these requests (in part) that you get the big crowd figures.


I'm hopeful that the AFL isn't so short sighted that it continues to do this forever. Someone suggested earlier the AFL are consolidating the national league first, then will turn attention to giving all clubs a crack at the big games and big exposure. That makes sense. I hope they are right.

It was great going to see the Hawks v Collingwood in front of 75,000 people and not just because we won. The atmosphere was incredible. I'm a little jealous that you guys get that every week.

the hawk's hierarchy have decided to play games in tassie because (a) they are financially better off, or (b) they want to develop a supporter base there. or both.

playing home games in tassie is not conducive to developing a huge following in melbourne that will fill the 'G. in fact it's the opposite.

you want the afl to invest in your club via the draw and help you get the opportunity to play big MCG games, but your own club isn't investing in it's melbourne supporter base with home games.

you accuse the afl of being short-sighted but that's exactly what your club is. you should complain to your own club.

you can't have it both ways.

 

[swiftdog]

Agree with both Hawkk and Mr Lizard above. Mr lizard, you weren't harsh or anything like that.

 

[Hawkk]

the hawk's hierarchy have decided to play games in tassie because (a) they are financially better off, or (b) they want to develop a supporter base there. or both.

playing home games in tassie is not conducive to developing a huge following in melbourne that will fill the 'G. in fact it's the opposite

you want the afl to invest in your club via the draw and help you get the opportunity to play big MCG games, but your own club isn't investing in it's melbourne supporter base with home games.

you accuse the afl of being short-sighted but that's exactly what your club is. you should complain to your own club.

you can't have it both ways.

Its not as clear cut as that.

The original reason why Hawthorn played games in Tasmania was to avoid playing games at the TD, which drew embarassingly low crowds for Hawthorn games (15-20000)

As a result the club put forward a proposal whereby they played 2 games in Tasmania with the rest being played at the MCG (the AFL gave us 8 home games at the MCG, leaving us with 1 game at the TD)

Fast forward to 2006 and the AFL offered the club a maximum of 5 home games at the MCG, with the rest being played interstate or at the TD, as a result membership dropped to 28k. The club decided to expand into Tasmania further (hence the sponsorship) as long as it got the 7 home games at the MCG, which it hoped to expand its attendances and membership with dramatically (Hawthorn set a target of 50k members by 2012) Bare in mind, at the time during 2006, Hawthorn was the 4th lowest drawing club in the league, drawing 34,000 to their Melbourne based games.

Fast forward to 2008 and the average crowd for Melbourne games is just short of 50,000 (despite playing low drawing games vs. Melbourne x2, North, Richmond with Collingwood being the outlier) and membership is at 40,640. So the strategy aimed at increasing crowds and membership dramatically is working (48% increase in Melb attendances in 2 years)

The whole point of Hawthorn choicing the MCG as a home ground (despite financially getting a better deal at the TD) was to grow attendances to the point of one day maybe becoming a 'blockbuster' club;

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...1211654314784.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

While the AFL presumed the Hawks would plump for the new ground on the city's western fringe, for Dicker the MCG was the obvious choice. The MCG would guarantee the Hawks 40,000 standard priced seats, while they would get just 10,000 at the Docklands.

"That again followed on our family club and affordable football themes, and that was the principal reason we chose the MCG," Dicker said. "Plus the fact that if we did become a big member club, we could have big crowds, which I hope will come to fruition, or somewhat has (done) this year."

So the MCG-Waverley Park-Tasmania strategy was aimed at improving the club 3-way. Attendances, membership and financial security

To date its worked, whether its sustainable when we're in the bottom 4 again (which will happen) only time will tell.

 

[thomasleary]

I don’t know what all the fuss is about. Collingwood has played 10 games so far in 2008 and 9 of them have been in the top 20 total attendances. 7 have been in the top 10.

Face it. Collingwood draws crowds…

1. 88,999 Collingwood v Essendon M.C.G.
2. 78,206 Collingwood v Geelong M.C.G.
3. 77,873 Carlton v Collingwood M.C.G.
4. 76,048 Hawthorn v Collingwood M.C.G.
5. 72,552 Richmond v Carlton M.C.G.
6. 70,802 Richmond v Collingwood M.C.G.
7. 64,388 Essendon v Carlton M.C.G.
8. 60,333 Essendon v Richmond M.C.G.
9. 52,968 Collingwood v West Coast M.C.G.
10. 51,990 Collingwood v North Melbourne M.C.G.
11. 50,636 Geelong v Essendon Docklands
12. 48,417 St Kilda v Collingwood Docklands
13. 48,100 North Melbourne v Essendon Docklands
14. 47,461 Essendon v Western Bulldogs Docklands
15. 46,792 St Kilda v Essendon Docklands
16. 46,792 Melbourne v Carlton M.C.G.
17 46,231 Geelong v Carlton Docklands
18 46,076 Hawthorn v Richmond M.C.G.
19. 45,524 Adelaide v Port Adelaide Football Park
20. 45,383 Collingwood v Fremantle M.C.G.

33,867 Brisbane v Collingwood GABBA

 

[dave10]

99,346 Melbourne v Collingwood M.C.G. 1958
94,825 Collingwood v Essendon M.C.G. 1995
92,935 Hawthorn v Collingwood Waverley Park 1981
92,436 Richmond v Collingwood M.C.G. 1977
91,571 Carlton v Essendon M.C.G. 2000
91,234 Collingwood v Essendon M.C.G. 2006
90,564 Richmond v Essendon M.C.G. 1982
90,508 Essendon v Collingwood M.C.G. 2007
88,999 Collingwood v Essendon M.C.G. 2008
88,468 Essendon v Richmond M.C.G. 2007
88,390 Collingwood v Essendon M.C.G. 2000

Highest home and away attendances of all time. 8 of the 10 games involved Collingwood.

And 8 of the top 10 featured Essendon!

 

[swiftdog]

And 8 of the top 10 featured Essendon!

I count 11 games there.

 

[Hawkk]

1. 88,999 Collingwood v Essendon M.C.G.
2. 78,206 Collingwood v Geelong M.C.G.
3. 77,873 Carlton v Collingwood M.C.G.
4. 76,048 Hawthorn v Collingwood M.C.G.
5. 72,552 Richmond v Carlton M.C.G.
6. 70,802 Richmond v Collingwood M.C.G.
7. 64,388 Essendon v Carlton M.C.G.
8. 60,333 Essendon v Richmond M.C.G.
9. 52,968 Collingwood v West Coast M.C.G.
10. 51,990 Collingwood v North Melbourne M.C.G.
11. 50,636 Geelong v Essendon Docklands
12. 48,417 St Kilda v Collingwood Docklands
13. 48,100 North Melbourne v Essendon Docklands
14. 47,461 Essendon v Western Bulldogs Docklands
15. 46,792 St Kilda v Essendon Docklands
16. 46,792 Melbourne v Carlton M.C.G.
17. 46,377 Essendon V Hawthorn Docklands
18 46,231 Geelong v Carlton Docklands
19 46,076 Hawthorn v Richmond M.C.G.
20. 45,524 Adelaide v Port Adelaide Football Park

3/6

Would have been 4/7 if the W Bulldogs game was played in Victoria, the only other Melb based games against North and Melbourne (x2) all drew up around the 40-42k mark.

Not bad for a supposed minnow

 

[South of the Yarra]

And 8 of the top 10 featured Essendon!

Has Essendon only played in front of one H and A crowd bigger than 92,000. Embarrassing. Oh and that was against Collingwood.

 

[Big Bryza]

The same 4 clubs that dominated the prime time fixtures, I see not much has changed.

I find it funny that the club with the 4th lowest membership in the league is still considered a 'Big 4' club.

Re: Collingwood, yes they do draw quite the crowd, although Im sure their average wouldn't look as great as it currently does against other Vic clubs if they were drawn to play Carlton and Essendon at the TD instead of the MCG.

The 'draw' has an amazing way of doing that I guess

Why do you think Hawthorn played the Dogs in Tassie??? Because you would draw a sh!t crowd at the G.... U sir have no idea.

 

[SpInNeR]

2008 AFL Attendance
Team Games Total Average
Collingwood Magpies 10 624,553 62,455

2007 AFL Attendance
Team Games Total Average
Collingwood Magpies 25 1,432,878 57,315

2006 AFL Attendance
Team Games Total Average
Collingwood Magpies 23 1,249,266 54,315

2005 AFL Attendance
Team Games Total Average
Collingwood Magpies 22 1,003,829 45,628

Could it be argued that Collingwood have in fact over inflated attendance figures because they are gifted every blockbuster that exists????

Chicken or the egg case i reckon....

 

[Hawkk]

Why do you think Hawthorn played the Dogs in Tassie??? Because you would draw a sh!t crowd at the G.... U sir have no idea.

Really, given it was 1st vs. 3rd....

Software snarl

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23775913-24218,00.html

NEW software being used to produce the AFL draw is creating more problems than it is solving.

Hawthorn played Melbourne twice in the first nine rounds, but the Hawks don't play Carlton until round 22.

The draw is a mess. Why is Hawthorn playing the Western Bulldogs in Launceston on Saturday?

The Hawks are first on the ladder. The Dogs are third. They have lost one game between them in nine rounds.

Hawthorn has an agreement to play four home-and-away games in Launceston, but it is obvious they should play interstate clubs in Tasmania and not throw away a clash between two Victorian clubs.

At Aurora Stadium on Saturday, the crowd will be about 20,000. At the MCG on Sunday, when the ground is not being used, 60,000 fans could be expected to turn up.

Getting to and from Launceston is also a problem with flights costing up to $610 and the ferry service on Sunday cancelled.

If the AFL wants to keep the turnstiles clicking, it needs to ensure Melbourne teams play each other in Melbourne.

Would have probably expected 55-60k, hence 4/7 Melb based games being in the top 20 with the rest being in the top 30.

Like I said, not bad for a side that has played 3 Melb based games against the 2 lowest drawing Victorian clubs.

 

[wegs on pendles]

Could it be argued that Collingwood have in fact over inflated attendance figures because they are gifted every blockbuster that exists????

Chicken or the egg case i reckon....

No because we make the games blockbuster.

 

[SpInNeR]

No because we make the games blockbuster.

You made ANZAC day, the Queens Birthday Holiday and created the existence of what we now call Friday nights????

Collingwood are thus not receiving the recognition they deserve, not only for their contribution to football, but for their overall influence on the greater Australian society.

 

[swiftdog]

You made ANZAC day, the Queens Birthday Holiday and created the existence of what we now call Friday nights????

Collingwood are thus not receiving the recognition they deserve, not only for their contribution to football, but for their overall influence on the greater Australian society.

2/3 correct, not a bad effort. There was football played on ANZAC day and Queens b/day before collingwood intervened along with Essendon and Melbourne and made the games what they are today.

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

LOL fair enough



Wrong.

Richmond - 46,064 (Greek Easter Night)
Melbourne - 40140 (Easter Sunday) 41385 (Sunday)
North Melbourne - 39816 (Saturday - still North Melbourne's 2nd largest home crowd this year)

Now compare that to the Bulldogs (who got 29924 vs. West Coast)

Richmond - 37787 (Sunday) +8277
Melbourne - 27821 (Saturday) +12319, +13544
North Melbourne - 34940 (Sunday Night) +4876

Based on those games, the game will likely draw 39861 pending weather, probably more given its a Friday Night game.

Hawthorn hasn't had less then 39007 (rainy day vs. Brisbane last year) to a Melbourne based home game since this time last year, including games vs. Brisbane 39007 and Sydney 48398.

So Im not sure where you get this 'struggling to get 30000' tact from, Im sure you're aware of the Collingwood games that 'struggled' to draw 30000 in 2005



You're also obviously aware that prior to this year, the largest Collingwood-West Coast crowd was 44401 in 2004 (8568 less then last week) Which funnily enough is about the same amount needed to draw 40,000 based on the previous Hawthorn-West Coast record.

Go figure

Really you should stop now before you embarass yourself some more

Who knows, it could rain all night and be one of the coldest days on record and only draw 30-35000 (ala Collingwood-Port last year) But really, stating that it'll only draw 30000 at best or that Hawthorn have 'struggled to draw 30000 against struggling Melbourne based' clubs is down right ignorant, and if anything living up proudly to the Collingwood sterotype, so keep it up son

hawthorn vs west coast attendance: 29,138

 

[gaelictiogar]

Seem to remember a few Carlton-Richmond games that drew in the vacinity of 30,000 in recent years.

Round 7 2006
Carlton 2.3 7.5 10.7 17.9 111
Essendon 2.3 4.6 7.11 11.12 78
Attendance: 32,976
Venue: MCG

Every fixture occasionally performs poorly if both clubs are doing badly. A couple of years ago Carlton V Essendon drew about 32,000. Are you saying its not a big draw? The Carlton V Collingwood game - the greatest rivalry in australian sport - has occasionally dropped below 50,000.

Games involving the Big 4 draw more than any other fixtures on AVERAGE. Test that over the past 10, 20, 30, 50 years and you will find it is a simple statement of fact.

Collingwood V Carlton, Collingwood V Essendon, Carlton V Essendon, Richmond V Essendon, Richmond V Collingwood and Carlton V Richmond are the 6 biggest drawing games in AFL are that is easily shown statistically

Accept it Hawkk or prove otherwise. Hawthorn simply do not figure in the fixtures that averagfe upwards of and over 60,000 which is whre all the Big 4 clashes are over an extended period of time.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

The Bulldogs drew 30,000 against West Coast earlier this season and Hawthorn has been drawing around 5-15,000 more then them in like for like comparison games ie. vs. Melbourne (40k, 41k vs. 27k) Richmond (46k vs. 37k), North (40k vs. 35k)

Based on that, when we play West Coast (in round 14) on a Friday Night, the likely crowd would be 40,000

Ignorance is bliss I guess.[/quote]

Was actually 29,138.

 

[Pessimistic]

That 60000+ Friday Game game back in 98 should have been the start of the Dogs and Roos rise to 'big 4' status. I guess there were ways to bop that on the head though from various angles.......

Easter Monday Richmond v saints at waverely got a unexpected huge crowd.

They never repeated that - couldn't have people thinking waverley was popular in any way.

 

[Pessimistic]

besides, having to squeeze in the g with a load of collingwood bogans is over rated. give me the mid level status any day.

 

[EOP26]

Collingwood don't get blockbuster games, their games become blockbusters because so many people show up and make the game huge.

How true, Blockbuster are not scheduled by the AFL.

 

[swansational05]

Blockbust just mean a match with a reasonable attendence AND two teams who just have a record of a winning and losing against each other.