Mega Thread Thymosin Discussion - Update -AFL 21/8 - Bombers officially charged with Thymosin beta issues

[Lance Uppercut]

Hmm just did some more looking up, geez the AFL code is a bit all over the place, but it seems they can be fined 100 penalty points (is that points on the ladder?) and a monetary fine for the club, which is actually different to WADA rules (though it also states the AFL can go harder if they wish or see reason to).

well done!!!

It's finally getting through. I'm so glad. Just a shame I had to waste my time repeating myself to get you there.

Can you help Tiger71 get there now?

 

[skipper kelly]

Baldur, ASADA have a finite amount of resources. They are now investigating the NRL. How do you figure the investigation has not ceased? For all practical purposes, that's exactly what's happened, unless you can demonstrate different?

There can be more than one investigation happening at one time.

 

[Graffy4242]

well, can you point me to the section that addresses that?

I'm not trying to be smart, I am honestly trying to get an idea of what people think will happen from here - and I fully believe infractions are a possibility

I applaud you Lance for being perhaps the ONLY regular Bomber contributor to these forums who can see the potential dire straits that both the players and Club look like they are in.

The rest of them are simply lemmings who refuse to believe or acknowledge that the club deliberately or unwittingly did anything wrong.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

No, you are wrong. The AFL has - with the assistance of WADA - developed an anti-doping code. It is THIS code we run by. While all the individual type penalties are word for word of the WADA code, the one very big difference is in terms of the team penalties which is at the complete discretion of the AFL (sporting body). This must be the case to make allowances for contractual commitments by the sporting body.

he'll get there one day

 

[Mofra]

I would have thought, and have made clear, that the governance issues and lack of oversight has been appalling. No two ways about it

You've been the one balanced Essendon supporter posting. The vast majority were (and a few still are) in denial.

 

[Baldur]

Baldur, ASADA have a finite amount of resources. They are now investigating the NRL. How do you figure the investigation has not ceased? For all practical purposes, that's exactly what's happened, unless you can demonstrate different?

What can you not understand about

It is an interm report.

I do not know what is in it.

At least one important person has not been interviewed.

So I know the investigation is not over, how much remains to be done? Do not know. Maybe, perharps even likely just Dank. Who is part of their NRL investigation as well.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

So two days ago Essendon supporters were declaring their players were clear, the report has insufficient evidence to hand out infractions, mass celebrations. Nek minnit...

LOL indeed.

I've never thought individual players would face sanctions and I still don't.

If they were to, I strongly beleive there's be at least infraction notices by now.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

So two days ago Essendon supporters were declaring their players were clear, the report has insufficient evidence to hand out infractions, mass celebrations. Nek minnit...

LOL indeed.

until there are infractions, it's hard to argue that there is not "insufficient evidence".

From the same media outlet:

Remarkably, it is this sheer lack of oversight - the breakdown in protocols that were meant to be followed by officials - that looks set to save the players from the worst, namely lengthy suspensions for taking World Anti-Doping Agency-banned substances.

That worst could still happen, but it does not appear likely at this stage.

The report suggests there is strong circumstantial evidence that the banned version was administered.

But it cannot say to whom it was given, with any certainty. And for that shambles, the players - and ultimately the club and the AFL - must be thankful.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/drug-shambles-could-work-in-players-favour-20130806-2rdjz.html#ixzz2bEgnr0Js​

 

[Colonial]

well done!!!

It's finally getting through. I'm so glad. Just a shame I had to waste my time repeating myself to get you there.

Can you help Tiger71 get there now?

Funny, what was being said though is on top of the WADA rules, is that if WADA don't think it (AFL) has been tough enough then further sanctions can be imposed internationally.

And to make a point it has been reported on numerous times regarding ASADA and WADA taking a very interested look on how the AFL handle this and will bring in their own sanctions if they see fit. Which they CAN do. So no sweeping under the carpet.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

WADA signed off on it, and ASADA are WADA's local arm, so they don't "come under it", but it is the document upon which they apply for any doping issues in the AFL...

So I figure its like this: the AFL - like other sports in Australia come under the WADA code.

ASADA being Australia's WADA rep. But wait!! This country and its sporting codes can't give the sovereignty of the players up to WADA to police and adjudicate over. For one thing, neither the government, not the sporting bodies have the legal power to do so. So therefore the AFL anti doping code that is written up to mirror WADA's, and WADA uses powers to keep sports bodies under a reasonably tight leash.

 

[replicant]

Dank at it again!

Claims it was Thymomodulin. Looking on the "check your substances" on the ASADA site gives no result. Don't know if it's ok, but surely there'd be evidence of Dank checking with ASADA, right?

Here's a blurb from one of the suppliers:

The preparation can be used for all diseases with primary and secondary immune system disturbances involving T-cells which are thymus dependent and for a wide range of symptoms such as chronic viral, bacterial and fungal infections; allergic and auto-immune reactions; and certain lymphoproliferative syndromes.






Indications:All systemic diseases of the connective tissue, the nervous tissue, the muscles, the vessels and the internal organs caused by a deficient immune function of the thymus: chronic virus hepatitis, polyneuropathy, encephalopathy, auto-immune spinal cord diseases, acute dermatomyositis, allergic skin diseases, systemic lupus erythematosus, hypo and hypergammaglobulinaemias, cutaneous and organ-involved mycoses.

Those players must be pretty ill! How much treatment do they need?

The dosage needs to be determined on an individual basis depending on the health of the patient. The following dosage is recommended: 10-20 mg/day for 30 days followed by 20-50 mg/week. Continued administration, the dosage, the duration of the treatment depend on the therapeutic effect and the immunological results.

Got receipts there Steve? that's a lot of Thymomodulin, and needs daily injections. got any evidence?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

There can be more than one investigation happening at one time.

sure, but with finite resources it won't amount to much. There's a reason they focused on AFL exclusively, and now they are doing it to NRL

 

[clogged]

You think a Father would be "unhinged" for not making noise about his Son being injected with chemicals that are not approved for humans? You would be far closer to being unhinged if that is your belief.
Would you honestly not be demanding the careers be over, at a minimum of all of those people involved in administering potentially harmful substances to your child?

Yeah, I would. Because it's up to the son, as an adult, to make decisions about what is best for him. And preempting an investigation that could do his son out of his career by ranting and raving in the media harms his son more than it helps him.

This is not your usual "be a bogan on Today Tonight" and get outraged at all the injustice kind of thing.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

What can you not understand about

It is an interm report.

I do not know what is in it.

At least one important person has not been interviewed.

So I know the investigation is not over, how much remains to be done? Do not know. Maybe, perharps even likely just Dank. Who is part of their NRL investigation as well.

that's my point. It's highly fluid. Who knows? I agree Dank might be a milestone, but the only point I make is that I don't see what else is going to happen to the "final" report to change events

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Funny, what was being said though is on top of the WADA rules, is that if WADA don't think it (AFL) has been tough enough then further sanctions can be imposed internationally.

And to make a point it has been reported on numerous times regarding ASADA and WADA taking a very interested look on how the AFL handle this and will bring in their own sanctions if they see fit. Which they CAN do. So no sweeping under the carpet.

only if they haven't been tough enough in applying the AFL Anti Doping Code. That's the whole point. I'm glad you can admit you were wrong.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

So I figure its like this: the AFL - like other sports in Australia come under the WADA code.

ASADA being Australia's WADA rep. But wait!! This country and its sporting codes can't give the sovereignty of the players up to WADA to police and adjudicate over. For one thing, neither the government, not the sporting bodies have the legal power to do so. So therefore the AFL anti doping code that is written up to mirror WADA's, and WADA uses powers to keep sports bodies under a reasonably tight leash.

that's exactly what it's like. But there are key differences between the WADA base code and the agreed upon AFL version, and it's the AFL version we need be concerned with. It's the only relevant document.

I should make that my signature

 

[Valian]

They can force him to attend an interview. What they cannot do is force him to answer their questions. But they are allowed to subpeona his phone, text and email records. He may be stupid enough to think he can bullshit them. Lots can be discovered by a canny interviewer when the target tries to lie to the interviewer.

Isnt he the key then?? why havent they interviewed him or have they alrerady done so & he hasnt admiited anything. even if he gave daming info (without physical proof , ie emails or phone records) it would just be his word against anyone elses, wouldnt it.

 

[Colonial]

So I figure its like this: the AFL - like other sports in Australia come under the WADA code.

ASADA being Australia's WADA rep. But wait!! This country and its sporting codes can't give the sovereignty of the players up to WADA to police and adjudicate over. For one thing, neither the government, not the sporting bodies have the legal power to do so. So therefore the AFL anti doping code that is written up to mirror WADA's, and WADA uses powers to keep sports bodies under a reasonably tight leash.

Think that's pretty much it. Probably best explains that while the AFL have control, ASAD and WADA can come in if they aren't happy and impose sanctions.

 

[IanG]

No, you are wrong. The AFL has - with the assistance of WADA - developed an anti-doping code. It is THIS code we run by. While all the individual type penalties are word for word of the WADA code, the one very big difference is in terms of the team penalties which is at the complete discretion of the AFL (sporting body). This must be the case to make allowances for contractual commitments by the sporting body.

So what does the AFL code say about team penalties?

 

[FuManchu]

So I figure its like this: the AFL - like other sports in Australia come under the WADA code.

ASADA being Australia's WADA rep. But wait!! This country and its sporting codes can't give the sovereignty of the players up to WADA to police and adjudicate over. For one thing, neither the government, not the sporting bodies have the legal power to do so. So therefore the AFL anti doping code that is written up to mirror WADA's, and WADA uses powers to keep sports bodies under a reasonably tight leash.

So who polices the code?

What resources are devoted into ensuring that offences are not occurring?

I know the AFL were talking about integrity officers being employed at each club. But other than testing, which is always lagging behind, what other investigative resources are being devoted to this? Remembering that the ACC investigation only stumbled on this during an investigation into outlaw MCs

 

[Colonial]

only if they haven't been tough enough in applying the AFL Anti Doping Code. That's the whole point. I'm glad you can admit you were wrong.

Hey this has never happened in Oz, new for all of us and we are all trying to learn what the bloody hell is going on.

 

[Baldur]

that's my point. It's highly fluid. Who knows? I agree Dank might be a milestone, but the only point I make is that I don't see what else is going to happen to the "final" report to change events

So what, you don't see, you do not see lots of things, how could you you have not read the report. No competent investigator issues charges with the job not completed, just in case something does happen. Not unless events force them to do so.

 

[Armchair Critic]

Bombers statement on 360 the other week rings true. If any prohobited substances had been used by Essendon he would walk.Let's see if it happens

 

[jenny61_99]

You think a Father would be "unhinged" for not making noise about his Son being injected with chemicals that are not approved for humans? You would be far closer to being unhinged if that is your belief.
Would you honestly not be demanding the careers be over, at a minimum of all of those people involved in administering potentially harmful substances to your child?

I think you have to have a complete understanding of being a part of that environment to know how torn Tim must be. Don't forget, Tim isn't an "outsider". He's "one of them".

 

[Bunk Moreland]

So do we all agree the info for this story was leaked by the AFL?