Recommitted Tim English [signs 5 year deal]

[Elite Pete]

Not going to happen. We don't operate that way. 99% of players don't either.

Not many clubs match either and force and trade. I think English stays, and if he signs with the Eagles and the Dogs match he will be happy and stay too because he got his 6th year on the money he wants.

But if they match and he really just wants out he will make it known to the Dogs to accept the band 1 compo or he will leave via psd because the Eagles are not giving up anything worth noting more then pick 12-18. There will be no trade.

The threat of matching won’t scare the Eagles, they will be all in at FA but after that it is what it is. Get TB off the books and they might prop the offer up a bit to really make the Dogs think about it.

It’s a perfect situation for Timmy to get what he wants and no doubt some of these leaks that he is starting to warm to the idea of heading home is too.

 

[Elite Pete]

That's the point he isn't gone at all despite not signing,

Unless the Eagles trade for him he won't leave via FA/PSD as we will have matched the offer or the WCE offer won't be better.

He is either a Bulldog next year or we have Pick 2/3 or WCE F1

You clearly have no idea how the system works

if you match he doesn’t have to sign?

 

[Obeanie1]

Unless the Eagles are prepared to trade for him or have offered some ridiculous contract I don't see a world where we don't match given the compo will be a teens pick

Eagles aren't trading for him.

Is is as a FA or not at all.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

You clearly have no idea how the system works

if you match he doesn’t have to sign?

Not sure you know the rules either.

If the Bulldogs match English has 3 options
1. Stay at the Dogs on the matched offer
2. Seek a trade to any club
3. Nominate for the draft (not PSD) and take his chance.

On this scenario the Dogs would force the club offering the Free Agency contract to basically cough up their first pick as a minimum or lose any right to the player. Dogs would also have the right to trade with any other club provided English agreed to go elsewhere.

He is not going to last in the draft into the second round.

He is not eligible to go to the PSD

https://www.aflplayers.com.au/app/uploads/2020/12/AFL_FREE_AGENCY_EXPLAINED_2019.pdf

 

[Elite Pete]

It’s run down how this could play out for those who can’t work it out.

1- most likely, English mostly signs at the dogs.
If not,
2- English accepts the Eagles the deal and Dogs match, English is happy he got what he wanted in $ and years, and stays
If not,
3- English signs at the Eagles and the Dogs are happy to let him go for band 1 and don’t match.
If not,
4- English signs at the Eagles and Dogs ain’t happy with band 1 so threaten to match unless the Eagles trade for him,
4a- Eagles tell English he got offered the extra $$ and years because he was a RFA so they didn’t have to give up anything for trading for him. So if he wants that deal, it’s wait for the Dogs to match or they will give him that same deal via draft.

It’s pretty simple

 

[Elite Pete]

Not sure you know the rules either.

If the Bulldogs match English has 3 options
1. Stay at the Dogs on the matched offer
2. Seek a trade to any club
3. Nominate for the draft (not PSD) and take his chance.

On this scenario the Dogs would force the club offering the Free Agency contract to basically cough up their first pick as a minimum or lose any right to the player. Dogs would also have the right to trade with any other club provided English agreed to go elsewhere.

He is not going to last in the draft into the second round.

He is not eligible to go to the PSD

https://www.aflplayers.com.au/app/uploads/2020/12/AFL_FREE_AGENCY_EXPLAINED_2019.pdf

He puts the right money on his head like other have before and he will.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

He puts the right money on his head like other have before and he will.

In the draft he can end up anywhere.
North Melbourne and probably Richmond will have plenty of cap space.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Can’t really see Doggies wanting to match if we are offering say 6/6 and doggies offering 5/4.5 .

English isn’t worth 1.5 mill extra in cap space plus the 1st rounder they’d get. They would back themselves in to find a replacement for much cheaper like Nick Bryan and save the money plus keep the pick or even better move it for Miles Bergman

Bergman/Bryan for English would be a win

 

[Elite Pete]

In the draft he can end up anywhere.
North Melbourne and probably Richmond will have plenty of cap space.

Highly doubt they would. Right money and length and he would. Players have done it before and Doggies ain’t missing out on a pick 12-18 in this draft to let him walk. A lot do smoke and mirrors by all just to get some extra $ and years.

Point is there will be no trade that nets the Dogs a better pick then band 1 and get English the deal he is getting offer by the Eagles.

 

[Elite Pete]

We have the cap space he'd already be on 700-800 now so unless the offer is something ridiculous like 1.2-1.3 for 6 years matching won't be an issue

Not a great source but McClure on tradies had the offer north of $1m a year a couple of weeks ago

 

[Obeanie1]

Not sure you know the rules either.

If the Bulldogs match English has 3 options
1. Stay at the Dogs on the matched offer
2. Seek a trade to any club
3. Nominate for the draft (not PSD) and take his chance.

On this scenario the Dogs would force the club offering the Free Agency contract to basically cough up their first pick as a minimum or lose any right to the player. Dogs would also have the right to trade with any other club provided English agreed to go elsewhere.

He is not going to last in the draft into the second round.

He is not eligible to go to the PSD

https://www.aflplayers.com.au/app/uploads/2020/12/AFL_FREE_AGENCY_EXPLAINED_2019.pdf

Will Freo have the need to draft another ruck?

Will they even have a 1st round pick if they trade in Bolton?

If Dogs match he stays and gets the deal he wants. It's that simple. End of story.

The Eagles will be happy to pay slight overs and throw in an extra year to land a free agent. They are not in the position to use limited draft picks trading for him ......that is pretty obvious and logical.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Still don get how Doggies plan on having 5 players on 1mill+ though

Naughtin, Bont, JUH, Darcy and English

Especially when you got Macrae/Daniels/Richards/Lobb/Treloar/Dale/Libba/Weightman who would all be on 600k+ (Macrae, Daniels, Lobb) or worth that Between 14 players you would easily have 11 mill eaten up. Dont think the other 30 players will be happy on 200k a year each exactly....

 

[stallon]

No idea why dogs fans think a trade of English to the Eagles is even remotely possible

 

[Libbaaaa]

No idea why dogs fans think a trade of English to the Eagles is even remotely possible

It isn’t, no way the Eagles trade for him.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Still don get how Doggies plan on having 5 players on 1mill+ though

Naughtin, Bont, JUH, Darcy and English

Especially when you got Macrae/Daniels/Richards/Lobb/Treloar/Dale/Libba/Weightman who would all be on 600k+ (Macrae, Daniels, Lobb) or worth that Between 14 players you would easily have 11 mill eaten up. Dont think the other 30 players will be happy on 200k a year each exactly....

Even your speculative numbers don't add up to $11M
Darcy not on big money (yet) and will get his as Daniel/Macrae depart.
Naughton and JUH probably under the Million.

Every club has at least 12 players on minimum salary.

 

[Elite Pete]

Even your speculative numbers don't add up to $11M
Darcy not on big money (yet) and will get his as Daniel/Macrae depart.
Naughton and JUH probably under the Million.

Every club has at least 12 players on minimum salary.

Doesn’t matter how you run the numbers Bulldog Joe, you won’t have the money to match what if the Eagles and English want.

 

[Foxman98]

No idea why dogs fans think a trade of English to the Eagles is even remotely possible

Who’s saying that? All we’ve said is the only way he’s not at the club is via trade

 

[Ash1337]

Some real assumptions about he the dogs cap and English's contract offer here. Dogs reported contract is 800k a season over 5. Likely front loaded too. Dogs latest offer was back in April. Eagles is unknown but it's not $1mil over 6. Not even Eagles will go over a mil unless they believe dogs cant match. I Believe it's 900k over 6. It is well known English is waiting out for another year on his contract and his Agent approached Eagles to get a better deal for him. This isn't a go home scenario like some think.

Dogs have a 2 year deal for Smith on similar money they offer English as well as having offered 750k to Stengle to play for them so matching a bid on 200k more is not going a problem for them in the end.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Even your speculative numbers don't add up to $11M
Darcy not on big money (yet) and will get his as Daniel/Macrae depart.
Naughton and JUH probably under the Million.

Every club has at least 12 players on minimum salary.

Im adding Englishs 1 mill in.

Yeah fair point re: timing of Darcys deal. It will be 1 mill though for sure. Can probably says 12 players on 10 mill which is alot still

Naughton/JUH on 900k with Bont on 1.2 mill is the likely scenario. Having English at 1 mill seems like 1 too many in that wage range

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Some real assumptions about he the dogs cap and English's contract offer here. Dogs reported contract is 800k a season over 5. Likely front loaded too. Dogs latest offer was back in April. Eagles is unknown but it's not $1mil over 6. Not even Eagles will go over a mil unless they believe dogs cant match. I Believe it's 900k over 6. It is well known English is waiting out for another year on his contract and his Agent approached Eagles to get a better deal for him. This isn't a go home scenario like some think.

Dogs have a 2 year deal for Smith on similar money they offer English as well as having offered 750k to Stengle to play for them so matching a bid on 200k more is not going a problem for them in the end.

Id say Eagles would be 6/6 for sure. If Barass and his 700k goes we got zero hope of getting to that floor unless we give Jake Waterman one hell of a pay rise and frontload the absolute crap out of it which seems unlikely given his injury history

We basically would have

Kelly - 800k
Allen - 800k
Darling - 800k
McGovern - 700k
Yeo - 700k
Sheed - 600k
Flynn - 500lk

5 of those out of contract in 2025 and due paycuts too . And everyone else would be 450k or less. Unless we going to frontload Jake Watermans deal at like 1.5 mill a season then Tim English getting 1 mill a year from us. Salary breakdown would definetly be like 3 mill for first 2 years then 750k per year for last 4 type scenario.

 

[Elite Pete]

Some real assumptions about he the dogs cap and English's contract offer here. Dogs reported contract is 800k a season over 5. Likely front loaded too. Dogs latest offer was back in April. Eagles is unknown but it's not $1mil over 6. Not even Eagles will go over a mil unless they believe dogs cant match. I Believe it's 900k over 6. It is well known English is waiting out for another year on his contract and his Agent approached Eagles to get a better deal for him. This isn't a go home scenario like some think.

Dogs have a 2 year deal for Smith on similar money they offer English as well as having offered 750k to Stengle to play for them so matching a bid on 200k more is not going a problem for them in the end.

Haha, Everything is assumptions? Like you have any more idea than anyone else.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

One aspect of all this is Id suggest English coming coincides with Barass going also. It wouldnt surprise me if English said "X per year is what it takes for me to leave Bulldogs", we ummed and ahhed about the finances and then when Barass put his hand up to leave, we had nothing to um and ah about and just pulled the trigger and made the offer.

 

[Bald]

Still don get how Doggies plan on having 5 players on 1mill+ though

Naughtin, Bont, JUH, Darcy and English

Especially when you got Macrae/Daniels/Richards/Lobb/Treloar/Dale/Libba/Weightman who would all be on 600k+ (Macrae, Daniels, Lobb) or worth that Between 14 players you would easily have 11 mill eaten up. Dont think the other 30 players will be happy on 200k a year each exactly....

Who's to say that's what they're being paid though? Players take less to keep a group together. You could argue that Carlton could be paying all of McKay, Curnow, Cripps, Weitering and Walsh all $1M+ individually but they're not.

Bont has always taken unders. Naughton is on the 850-900k mark, Jamarra I don't think would be getting paid 1M per season yet but will certainly command it after his current deal, Darcy isn't (but will in time) and English ultimately will sign for a similar amount to Naughton. You can front end some of the deals, and back end others.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Who's to say that's what they're being paid though? Players take less to keep a group together. You could argue that Carlton could be paying all of McKay, Curnow, Cripps, Weitering and Walsh all $1M+ individually but they're not.

Bont has always taken unders. Naughton is on the 850-900k mark, Jamarra I don't think would be getting paid 1M per season yet but will certainly command it after his current deal, Darcy isn't (but will in time) and English ultimately will sign for a similar amount to Naughton. You can front end some of the deals, and back end others.

My point is exactly all of this. Tim English would only stay with the Bulldogs on a paycut. You simply won’t be giving English 1 mill a season when all things are considered. He isn’t better than any of the above or worth it to you.

It will be a decision along the lines of 6/6 vs 5/4 and staying loyal. Not a decision on whether you match us and keep him. You wouldn’t be that dumb

 

[Ash1337]

Haha, Everything is assumptions? Like you have any more idea than anyone else.

Just posting what the dogs board itk posters post and what was heard in media. Eagles 6 year offer was never reported until july. Before that there was only word of Dogs offer. There had been rumors from media earlier in the year that Eagles had enquired but didn't put forth a offer initially likely thinking he was signing on at the dogs. Also it would have been reported in the media that Eagles offer is $1mil+ a season.

As for the Dogs cap. You look at the list and point out any player that is actually on a 1mil+ a year contract atm. Naughton is the closest and it's already reported Bont's last contact he took unders. If it takes matching at a $1mil contract to keep English it's not outside realm of possibility.