Tobacco Tax - who does it really hurt?

[Puddy]

Australia has extreme tobacco tax but no one has quit smoking. Talk to any tobacconist and they will tell you all plain packaging and high taxes has done is either cause people to buy the cheapest brands or buy black market tobacco.

Taxes never work as a deterrent. For people who want to quit it is a real kick in the guts. The only way is for the government to subsidise patches and gum to give people a fair go, not tax them into oblivion.

When you go to poorer areas the people who actually buy legit tobacco are making other sacrifices, like not feeding themselves and their children. When we have suits who are completely out of touch with the common people and have no idea that they are literally taking from the most needy we know that we have a serious problem

 

[Bomberboyokay]

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/content/tobacco-kff

 

[Puddy]

Hard to beleive statistics when what i see contradicts them.

 

[CM86]

Hard to beleive statistics when what i see contradicts them.

Good story vs facts.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Tobacco companies have given up on Australia and western countries ever going back to the 'good old days', they know it's a non-starter. They're focused on growth in Asian and African markets with less educated consumers.

 

[CM86]

Tobacco companies have given up on Australia and western countries ever going back to the 'good old days', they know it's a non-starter. They're focused on growth in Asian and African markets with less educated consumers.

They're busy threatening to sue tiny countries that attempt to reduce smoking...

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Australia has extreme tobacco tax but no one has quit smoking.

100 per cent incorrect.

 

[theyellowsash]

Hard to beleive statistics when what i see contradicts them.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

His tears/vibe say more than real evidence ever could.

 

[Puddy]

Reducing smoking rates is important but we are going about it the wrong way. Do any of you actually know anyone who has given up smoking due to taxes and plain packaging? I dont. All I see is increasing poverty and a huge illegal black market for tobacco.

Talk to someone who is suffering from tobacco related cancer or someone who has lost someone through it, or someone who desperatly wants to quit. When you are addicted you will pay any price and go without other necessities, or go down the dangerous illegal route.

The only way is for government to subsidise patches and gum and make them free. Using taxes to social engineer has never and will never work

 

[Puddy]

Statistics like that are rarely accurate. Statistics show South Australias unemployment rate is around 8 per cent. The reality is its around 16-20 per cent. If you take into account the huge black market tobacco trade the eal figures would most likely be around the 1998 figures, around 1 in 5 people smoke, which is accurate with what i see

 

[Gough]

Perhaps it's time to grandfather the tax, it's important to cut the rates of smoking, but simply punishing people who took up a legal product however many years ago maybe isn't the right way to go, particularly when it seems to be all stick, and no carrot. Disclaimer, smoker.

 

[CM86]

The stats are wrong.
No one smokes anymore, at all.
Which is accurate with what I see.

If you actually talk to the people, you will find that everyone quit smoking because it became too expensive, and the plain packaging disgusted them.

My anecdotal evidence is greater than stats or facts.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Australia has extreme tobacco tax but no one has quit smoking. Talk to any tobacconist and they will tell you all plain packaging and high taxes has done is either cause people to buy the cheapest brands or buy black market tobacco.

Taxes never work as a deterrent. For people who want to quit it is a real kick in the guts. The only way is for the government to subsidise patches and gum to give people a fair go, not tax them into oblivion.

When you go to poorer areas the people who actually buy legit tobacco are making other sacrifices, like not feeding themselves and their children. When we have suits who are completely out of touch with the common people and have no idea that they are literally taking from the most needy we know that we have a serious problem

What?

http://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/1-3-prevalence-of-smoking-adults

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Statistics like that are rarely accurate. Statistics show South Australias unemployment rate is around 8 per cent. The reality is its around 16-20 per cent. If you take into account the huge black market tobacco trade the eal figures would most likely be around the 1998 figures, around 1 in 5 people smoke, which is accurate with what i see

The statistics do not need to take into account the black market as they are not in any way related to tobacco sales they are based on the AIHW's National Drug Strategy Household Survey.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Perhaps it's time to grandfather the tax, it's important to cut the rates of smoking, but simply punishing people who took up a legal product however many years ago maybe isn't the right way to go, particularly when it seems to be all stick, and no carrot. Disclaimer, smoker.

I would rather see the age at which you can buy cigarettes go up each year - ie you can buy cigarettes if you are 18 this year, but next year you will have to be 19 etc.

 

[Puddy]

I would rather see the age at which you can buy cigarettes go up each year - ie you can buy cigarettes if you are 18 this year, but next year you will have to be 19 etc.

Thats a good idea

 

[Puddy]

I didnt mean to put people offside, im not a tobacco lobbyist, im just pointing out that the taxing of tobacco has not worked and has caused massive social problems

 

[CM86]

I didnt mean to put people offside, im not a tobacco lobbyist, im just pointing out that I think the taxing of tobacco has not worked and has caused massive social problems

The evidence disagrees with you.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

It's not a lie if you believe it.

 

[Lebbo73]

I would rather see the age at which you can buy cigarettes go up each year - ie you can buy cigarettes if you are 18 this year, but next year you will have to be 19 etc.

The blackmarket loves you.

 

[Shane Hird]

The price rise has recently made me quit. It was the final straw I needed really.

I earn decent money and $50 a week spent on cigarettes won't send me broke, but it's the guilt of wasting that money that gets you.

$50 a week is $2500 a year. That's too much money to literally burn.

Not long ago I tried to switch to a cheaper, more 'value for money' brand instead of my beloved top price brand.

I lasted about 3 smokes of the cheap stuff and chucked them out. They were disgusting and tasted like smoking lawn clippings.

But plenty of people are buying the cheap stuff. Packs of 40..buying cartons of it to 'save' money.

Even if it reaches $50 or $60 a packet certain people will still buy them and continue to smoke.

There has to be another solution.

 

[Puddy]

The evidence disagrees with you.

Does the evidence include black market tobacco? Do some of your own research, do work in poorer communities and see the real cost of the tax on tobacco.

If i see 1 in 5 people smoking and 1 in 5 people unemployed, but statistics favouring pro government policy which is hurting the working class, what am I going to believe?

 

[Puddy]

The price rise has recently made me quit. It was the final straw I needed really.

I earn decent money and $50 a week spent on cigarettes won't send me broke, but it's the guilt of wasting that money that gets you.

$50 a week is $2500 a year. That's too much money to literally burn.

Not long ago I tried to switch to a cheaper, more 'value for money' brand instead of my beloved top price brand.

I lasted about 3 smokes of the cheap stuff and chucked them out. They were disgusting and tasted like smoking lawn clippings.

But plenty of people are buying the cheap stuff. Packs of 40..buying cartons of it to 'save' money.

Even if it reaches $50 or $60 a packet certain people will still buy them and continue to smoke.

There has to be another solution.

Prohibition doesnt work, tax hikes doesnt work. Lets try doing something which wont bring in huge sums of money for the government in subsidised gum and patches

 

[CM86]

Does the evidence include black market tobacco? Do some of your own research, do work in poorer communities and see the real cost of the tax on tobacco.

If i see 1 in 5 people smoking and 1 in 5 people unemployed, but statistics favouring pro government policy which is hurting the working class, what am I going to believe?

The evidence isn't based on the source of the tobacco... it's on the number of smokers...

The stats say it's working...
Is it working in every demographic? I'm not sure, I've not seen stats specific enough... But in general, it's working.


It's like saying, that working as a tobbacconist, all of your customers are smoking, thus everyone smokes and it isn't working...