Tobacco Tax - who does it really hurt?

[Rustin Cohle]

Prohibition doesn't work. Excess taxation doesn't work. Only education does

Literally every statistical measure shows this to be untrue.

 

[spinynorman]

As of today, the tax on a pint of beer has increased by 90 cents. Australia has the third highest tax on alcohol in the world. Maybe we’ll have bootleg liquor available soon, alongside the tobacco black market.

Guess they needed to offset the stage 3 cuts somewhere.

 

[Puddy]

Illegal cigarettes is on track to outsell legal tobacco shortly.

Tax increases have failed.

 

[Puddy]

The black market nobody outside the tobacco industry thinks is a big deal?

Big deal now

 

[Cookie]

The huge black market for tobacco that has emerged as a response to government greed is now a big problem.

Prohibition doesn't work. Excess taxation doesn't work. Only education does

I don't see it as greed at all.
I see it as a down payment on your hospital bed, a bed that should be for genuinely sick people not ones who make poor a life style choice.
So keep sucking it in and forking out the tax dollars.

 

[Puddy]

I don't see it as greed at all.
I see it as a down payment on your hospital bed, a bed that should be for genuinely sick people not ones who make poor a life style choice.
So keep sucking it in and forking out the tax dollars.

Someone who dies from smoking related diseases is cheaper than a dementia patient in the Aged Care system

 

[Cookie]

What a terrible analogy, which is more a reflection if your intellect.

 

[Puddy]

What a terrible analogy, which is more a reflection if your intellect.

Dementia patients are a bigger drain on taxpayers, so why not tax them more?

 

[Carn The Berries]

Dementia patients are a bigger drain on taxpayers, so why not tax them more?

Surely this is satire?

 

[Gough]

Dementia patients are a bigger drain on taxpayers, so why not tax them more?

I agree with you re tax and think we're approaching a tipping point but the comparison with dementia is a bad one. I choose to spark up a ciggy, nobody chooses dementia.

 

[Puddy]

I agree with you re tax and think we're approaching a tipping point but the comparison with dementia is a bad one. I choose to spark up a ciggy, nobody chooses dementia.

I work Aged Care, primarily with dementia patients.
We are seeing a huge influx of younger patients in their 60s and 70s, a big percentage of them are alcohol/drug related dementia.

 

[Seeds]

Illegal cigarettes is on track to outsell legal tobacco shortly.

Tax increases have failed.

Thats not how you determine success. What ridiculously terrible logic you have just displayed. Smoking rates could fall 99 percent and your assumption about illegal sales outselling legal sales could still hold true.

Success is determined by falling rates of smoking in the population. And these rates have absolutely collapsed.

 

[Puddy]

Thats not how you determine success. What ridiculously terrible logic you have just displayed. Smoking rates could fall 99 percent and your assumption about illegal sales outselling legal sales could still hold true.

Success is determined by falling rates of smoking in the population. And these rates have absolutely collapsed.

Rates can be manipulated when illegal consumption isn't recorded

 

[barreness]

The thing is nicotine is one of few proven mental enhancers, kinda why you see pysch wards and prisons full of smokers, they do literally need it

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1579636/
Nicotine improves attention in a wide variety of tasks in healthy volunteers. 2. Nicotine improves immediate and longer term memory in healthy volunteers. 3. Nicotine improves attention in patients with probable Alzheimer's Disease. 4. While some of the memory effects of nicotine may be due to enhanced attention, others seem to be the result of improved consolidation as shown by post-trial dosing.

Obviously the addiction becomes a thing and they can't stop. The vape ban seems silly(particularly the non disposable kinds), will drive up long term lung cancer in vulnerable groups

 

[Rob R]

The thing is nicotine is one of few proven mental enhancers, kinda why you see pysch wards and prisons full of smokers, they do literally need it

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1579636/
Nicotine improves attention in a wide variety of tasks in healthy volunteers. 2. Nicotine improves immediate and longer term memory in healthy volunteers. 3. Nicotine improves attention in patients with probable Alzheimer's Disease. 4. While some of the memory effects of nicotine may be due to enhanced attention, others seem to be the result of improved consolidation as shown by post-trial dosing.

Obviously the addiction becomes a thing and they can't stop. The vape ban seems silly(particularly the non disposable kinds), will drive up long term lung cancer in vulnerable groups

A 1992 paper written by someone whose claim to fame was "He was an expert on the psychological effects of nicotine, and he founded the tobacco-industry funded group known as ARISE Associates for Research in the Science of Enjoyment, which had previously been known as "Associates for Research in Substance Enjoyment,""

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[Seeds]

Rates can be manipulated when illegal consumption isn't recorded

Yes they can. But that fact doesnt make your previous post valid. Uktimately what matters is how many people are smoking. Not the rates of illegal to legal cigarettes.

Cigarette smoking has plummeted off the face of a cliff compared to what it used to be. Almost everyone over 15 used to smoke. You were rather odd if you didnt. Now its completely the other way round.

 

[Puddy]

Yes they can. But that fact doesnt make your previous post valid. Uktimately what matters is how many people are smoking. Not the rates of illegal to legal cigarettes.

Cigarette smoking has plummeted off the face of a cliff compared to what it used to be. Almost everyone over 15 used to smoke. You were rather odd if you didnt. Now its completely the other way round.

In the last couple of years I've noticed a increase in the amount of people who smoke, none of them smoke legally bought cigarettes.

Reality is prohibition has never, and will never work.

 

[Puddy]

The thing is nicotine is one of few proven mental enhancers, kinda why you see pysch wards and prisons full of smokers, they do literally need it

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1579636/
Nicotine improves attention in a wide variety of tasks in healthy volunteers. 2. Nicotine improves immediate and longer term memory in healthy volunteers. 3. Nicotine improves attention in patients with probable Alzheimer's Disease. 4. While some of the memory effects of nicotine may be due to enhanced attention, others seem to be the result of improved consolidation as shown by post-trial dosing.

Obviously the addiction becomes a thing and they can't stop. The vape ban seems silly(particularly the non disposable kinds), will drive up long term lung cancer in vulnerable groups

We have had dementia patients who's cognition has significantly declined after they've stopped smoking

 

[GreyCrow]

A 1992 paper written by someone whose claim to fame was "He was an expert on the psychological effects of nicotine, and he founded the tobacco-industry funded group known as ARISE Associates for Research in the Science of Enjoyment, which had previously been known as "Associates for Research in Substance Enjoyment,""

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You said arse

 

[Kram]

Just make them $200 a pack, that would stop people taking it up and convince even the dumbest to quit.

 

[barreness]

A 1992 paper written by someone whose claim to fame was "He was an expert on the psychological effects of nicotine, and he founded the tobacco-industry funded group known as ARISE Associates for Research in the Science of Enjoyment, which had previously been known as "Associates for Research in Substance Enjoyment,""

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Dude I just picked the first google search, the research is wide spread and well known

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/will-a-nicotine-patch-make-you-smarter-excerpt/
A huge literature says that smoking protects against Parkinson’s,”she said. “It started as a chance observation, which is frequently the most interesting kind.”

 

[GreyCrow]

Dude I just picked the first google search, the research is wide spread and well known

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/will-a-nicotine-patch-make-you-smarter-excerpt/
A huge literature says that smoking protects against Parkinson’s,”she said. “It started as a chance observation, which is frequently the most interesting kind.”

Michael J Fox was a chain smoker

https://www.chicagotribune.com/1987/07/18/dont-look-now-but-the-stars-are-lighting-up/

https://www.michaeljfox.org/news/re-examining-relationship-between-parkinsons-disease-and-smoking

They found that those with PD were less inclined to ever pick up the smoking habit,

 

[barreness]

Michael J Fox was a chain smoker

https://www.chicagotribune.com/1987/07/18/dont-look-now-but-the-stars-are-lighting-up/

https://www.michaeljfox.org/news/re-examining-relationship-between-parkinsons-disease-and-smoking

They found that those with PD were less inclined to ever pick up the smoking habit,

interesting, didn't know it was a pre system response

 

[Puddy]

I think our politicians need to read up on how prohibition went in the USA before introducing bad policy.

They have directly caused the current tobacco war

 

[Seeds]

I think our politicians need to read up on how prohibition went in the USA before introducing bad policy.

They have directly caused the current tobacco war

By that argument i gather you think all drugs should be legalised? Cocaine, ice etc?