Mega Thread Tony Abbott

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I think people are missing the importance of this speech. This isn't for swinging voters. This was for the Labor people, those who have drifted, are uncertain about the leadership. This was Gillard standing up for herself and laying down some smack. This was to mobilise and activate the base and get them agitated.

I think she did wonderfully. Of course the partisans are going to hate on her anyway. But in a way it just reveals some of the misogynists who lurk amongst us. I can almost hear "how dare a woman talk like that" in some of the responses, as if it had been Rudd then it would not nearly have been so problematic.

I'm not a Labor voter, but I am on the left, and if the governments policies match my preferences I will vote for them. I suppose this sort of speech speaks to me and other floating lefties, and it does appeal
 
noddy said:
There is a photo or three around the place showing him standing under banners of the sexist type while preaching to the faithful.
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Sigh - do you honestly think Abbott knew of these banners and approved of them before taking the stage.

If I stood behind Gillard whilst she was speaking and held up a banner saying "all ****s should be castrated' - does that mean she is homophobic?

Seriously, is that all he is 'supposed' to have done?
 

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rayven said:
In your experience as a follower of football, would you say that a team that makes the finals changes its style of play, or is it your experience they stick to what they know?

So is it fair to say come the election, we will get nothing but fear mongering, character assassination, treachery, lies, properganda, hate, sexism, bible bashing and the like from the opposition and no policy or direction?

That is the coalitions legacy under Tony Abbott.
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True but people expect an opposition leader to transition into a decent PM. In some ways the jobs are poles apart. Turnbull would make a good PM but was a lousy opposition leader, He detests the stuff that Abbott loves.

People have serious doubts about whether he can make the transition.

If "Government died of shame" just "slipped out" whats going to "slip out" when hes speaking to powerful world leaders FFS ?
 
Daytripper said:
I'm asking you - You were the one making the accusations.

What has Abbott done?
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To be honest I dont understand your question. We'e talking voter nuance her - the 'vibe' - he doesnt need to have done anything.
And dont assume I'm being partisan - I dont think Gillard 'losing it" was that inspirational either - she will be mad at herself for that
 
Pessimistic said:
My advice to Abbott would be to prove he can rise above all this

I doubt he will - he enjoys it too much

And thats the problem people have with him
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Based on what?

He's steadfastly refused to get down in the gutter with Gillard and start attacking her on a personal level.

If she wants to question his principles and morals, he could quite easily do the same - and with a lot more venom and authority than she does. She might *think* he's a misog (which I doubt); but he *knows* that she's had affairs with two married men which have broken up families, and been involved (albeit, blissfully ignorantly) in assisting in the defrauding of a Union.
 
Pessimistic said:
True but people expect an opposition leader to transition into a decent PM. In some ways the jobs are poles apart. Turnbull would make a good PM but was a lousy opposition leader, He detests the stuff that Abbott loves.

People have serious doubts about whether he can make the transition.
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Of course they've got doubts - he's never done it before.

Personally I have doubted every PM that has ever occupied the position.

Its just natural human instinct to doubt the unknown.
 
Daytripper said:
Sigh - do you honestly think Abbott knew of these banners and approved of them before taking the stage.

If I stood behind Gillard whilst she was speaking and held up a banner saying "all ****s should be castrated' - does that mean she is homophobic?

Seriously, is that all he is 'supposed' to have done?
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I think we have had this argument before, If Abbott or his advisers did not know what was in play "before" he stepped out onto the lawn then maybe the guy is what i believe him to be. a bloody nutter.
 
Daytripper said:
Sigh - do you honestly think Abbott knew of these banners and approved of them before taking the stage.

If I stood behind Gillard whilst she was speaking and held up a banner saying "all ****s should be castrated' - does that mean she is homophobic?

Seriously, is that all he is 'supposed' to have done?
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Judgement, and youre just being nit picking and cute
 
noddy said:
Abbott changed the agenda with his words aimed directly at provoking the Prime Minister, the smirk on his face as he said "die in shame" said it all.
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I can see how it could be perceived that way, but I honestly don't think that was his intention.

He's been using that line for years now, in the same context, and I believe that was the context he meant it in.

No doubt it was clumsy and insensitive, but I honestly don't believe he meant to insult Gillard on a personal level like that; his speech and condolences when she lost her father were pretty obviously sincere and heartfelt.

Given his history of spoken clumsiness, and especially with the heat and intense reaction to the Jones comments, I think that's more likely than a deliberate attack.

But, as I said, I can see how people would take it that way.


Regardless, as I said earlier, I'm certain that Gillard's rant was scripted, and, no matter what Abbott actually said, her defence of Slipper was always going to be based upon an attack on Abbott.
 

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King Elvis said:
Based on what?

He's steadfastly refused to get down in the gutter with Gillard and start attacking her on a personal level.

If she wants to question his principles and morals, he could quite easily do the same - and with a lot more venom and authority than she does. She might *think* he's a misog (which I doubt); but he *knows* that she's had affairs with two married men which have broken up families, and been involved (albeit, blissfully ignorantly) in assisting in the defrauding of a Union.
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Not so ignorantly

Property links PM to stolen funds
Date October 10, 2012
THE disgraced former boyfriend of Prime Minister Julia Gillard took a leading role in the purchase with stolen union funds of a Fitzroy unit bought in the name of a union crony, new documents reveal.
The documents also confirm that Ms Gillard intensely managed legal work on the 1993 transaction - without advising her senior partners at law firm Slater & Gordon of the involvement of boyfriend Bruce Wilson.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...-links-pm-to-stolen-funds-20121009-27bnm.html
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http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/julia-badass-gillard-slipper-resignation-just-a-sidebar-20121010-27c0g.html#ixzz28qbLq1Wq

The Prime Minister's 15-minute speech condemning misogyny and attacking Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's history of comments about abortion, women's roles in the home and their ability to wield authority has impressed political pundits in the US and UK.

Under the headline "More than just a man's 'bitch"', in reference to part of Ms Gillard's speech, the website for the UK conservative magazine The Spectator also lauded the prime minister.

"No matter what you think of her politics, there's much to admire in the manner in which Julia Gillard, the prime minister, sets about Tony Abbott, the leader of the opposition," columnist Alex Massie wrote.

"Anyone who admires the cut and thrust of parliamentary theatre and debate will enjoy these 15 minutes.

"Mr Abbott does not look best amused. But then he's just been carved to pieces so he wouldn't would he?"
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noddy said:
I think we have had this argument before, If Abbott or his advisers did not know what was in play "before" he stepped out onto the lawn then maybe the guy is what i believe him to be. a bloody nutter.
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Noddy, what do you expect them to have done - rifle through everyone's possessions beforehand and examine them.

I'm not sure about you but if a political adviser came up to me at a rally and asked me to show him what was in my bag, I would tell him or her to get f**ked.

Blaming Abbott for that is drawing a very, very long bow. Its a bit tin foil hattish actually.
 
Daytripper said:
Of course they've got doubts - he's never done it before.

Personally I have doubted every PM that has ever occupied the position.

Its just natural human instinct to doubt the unknown.
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Yes, you have to overcome Incumbency - the devil you know - some estimate it about 2% of votes - remember the swing over the Howard-Latham "handshake" ?
Gillard didnt have incumbency last time due to 'knifing" Rudd - this time she has.

He has to overcome those doubts - which are about as big for him as any opposition leader in recent times
 
Daytripper said:
Noddy, what do you expect them to have done - rifle through everyone's possessions beforehand and examine them.

I'm not sure about you but if a political adviser came up to me at a rally and asked me to show him what was in my bag, I would tell him or her to get f**ked.

Blaming Abbott for that is drawing a very, very long bow. Its a bit tin foil hattish actually.
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Yes that is what you said the last time.

You was wrong then also.
 
So far this morning we have "Oh it wasn't Abbott's intention to offend Gillard by referring to death in shame" and "Oh it wasn't Abbott's intention to offend Gillard by standing in front of placards labelling her a bitch".

Is there anything Abbott will take responsibility for?
 
Daytripper said:
Blaming Abbott for that is drawing a very, very long bow. Its a bit tin foil hattish actually.
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What about his derogatory comments about women in power generally, references to abortion as 'the easy way out', refering to a womans virginity as 'a gift' (while shagging his way through Uni and having an illigitemate child) demeaning the PM for not having children like a 'real woman', numerous accounts of belittling and demeaning and physically intimidating women (including with violence) in general throughout his entire political career starting at uni.

I think its pretty apparent to see where Tone comes from when it comes to chicks and the correct 'role' of women (in his eyes).
 
Daytripper said:
Noddy, what do you expect them to have done - rifle through everyone's possessions beforehand and examine them.

I'm not sure about you but if a political adviser came up to me at a rally and asked me to show him what was in my bag, I would tell him or her to get f**ked.

Blaming Abbott for that is drawing a very, very long bow. Its a bit tin foil hattish actually.
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When people are already suspicious of your catholic background, and you decide to be shown in front of a sign saying "Ditch the Witch", your judgement is suspect.
Simple matter to have those people moved out of camera shot. it was a lib organised rally and not some spontaneous people power thing anyway
 
Pessimistic said:
When people are already suspicious of your catholic background, and you decide to be shown in front of a sign saying "Ditch the Witch", your judgement is suspect.
Simple matter to have those people moved out of camera shot. it was a lib organised rally and not some spontaneous people power thing anyway
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What does Abbott being Catholic have to do with any of this?
 
King Elvis said:
I can see how it could be perceived that way, but I honestly don't think that was his intention.

He's been using that line for years now, in the same context, and I believe that was the context he meant it in.

No doubt it was clumsy and insensitive, but I honestly don't believe he meant to insult Gillard on a personal level like that; his speech and condolences when she lost her father were pretty obviously sincere and heartfelt.

Given his history of spoken clumsiness, and especially with the heat and intense reaction to the Jones comments, I think that's more likely than a deliberate attack.

But, as I said, I can see how people would take it that way.


Regardless, as I said earlier, I'm certain that Gillard's rant was scripted, and, no matter what Abbott actually said, her defence of Slipper was always going to be based upon an attack on Abbott.
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Doesnt cut it when hes putting up for the Job of PM - get soemeone who isnt 'clumsy"
 
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