Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Zeno The Great]

I like the way Hawthorn has gone about it, made tough list decisions and back on the way up.

Don’t think we need to cut as deep but look at last 5 years we kept players like Schache Jong Crozier Hannan McComb Hayes 1,2 or 3 years too long (in Mccombs case) but Bevo blames covid for that.

Now we have guys like McNeil, Vandermeer Scott and Gardener who are major list blockers and the game has moved past Daniel and Macrae (to an extent).

We seem to be willing to extend English on a major long term contract when he provides limited impact.

It’s List managements time to be brave. We are caught in the middle, neither good or bad, competitive most of the time.

It’s time to make major list decisions and time to move some players on for medium term gain, even if they are under contract and it costs us in the short term paying them to play for another side.

Well said. I'm torn on power and our list management. On one hand we seem to keep the majority of our list together and re-sign the good players, but on the other hand agree with you we keep list cloggers too long.

Signing Gardner for 3 years was the height of madness, he should have been given a 1 year contract, there is no way any club had any interest in him whatsoever.

 

[Munnez]

After today's game I think chasing Barrass would be a mistake. We need to be going after another fast mid. With English's non presence if we can't keep it in close we get slaughtered. A ready made ruck option wouldn't hurt either. English will be lucky to keep the contract offer at all with what he is giving currently.

 

[Mr. Walker]

After today's game I think chasing Barrass would be a mistake. We need to be going after another fast mid. With English's non presence if we can't keep it in close we get slaughtered. A ready made ruck option wouldn't hurt either. English will be lucky to keep the contract offer at all with what he is giving currently.

I agree. You would only go after Barass if he was the missing piece in your premiership winning list given the price you would have to pay given his non UFA status. The truth is we are a fair few pieces of the puzzle short and to fix that in the Bonts ” prime time” we must go the UFA and high draft pick route.

 

[hutchy31]

After today's game I think chasing Barrass would be a mistake. We need to be going after another fast mid. With English's non presence if we can't keep it in close we get slaughtered. A ready made ruck option wouldn't hurt either. English will be lucky to keep the contract offer at all with what he is giving currently.

Agreed. I like Barrass and was supportive of that chase, but it’s not going to fix up our core issues.

I’m honestly not sure why we would have any contract offer in front of English. This is sunk cost fallacy to me. He’s never going to be a good ruck, but because we’ve invested close to a decade in him and he fills up the stat sheet sometimes apparently we need to pay him. Why? He can’t do his basic role well. He should be told to sign at average wage or piss off to wherever will have him.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Move English on and bring in Pittonet or whatever. Anyone that doesn’t get slaughtered in centre bounces every week.

And stop selecting the same players who are nowhere near the level over and over again. There are players in the VFL who have far more upside than the same depth players we select. It’s actually happened so many times now that my interest in football is waning.

And pray to god that Butters wants to come to this dump. Or KEEP Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Unfortunately, the midfield is the problem staring us in the face. Our wonderful players in McCrae and Libba are at near the end, and young quick midfields show them up. Losing Dunkley and Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

has really accentuated the problem, along with having other prized assets a priority in the draft over restocking the midfield.

We have a forward line of riches, and a backline that it forming a shape for the future with JOD, Buss, Coffield, Buku. The jury is out on English, from AA ruck in 2023, to a ruck being beaten by less skilled but more aggressive rucks, but we do have Smith and Darcy, with support from Lobb, our future ruck is covered.

Like most supporters we over rate our team, and there is an urgency to utilise Bont who is at the peak of his power. But, we need to focus on a process of stabilising the team, this means we are not going to challenge for the premiership for the next two years, by the time we draft mids, as trying to lure mids from other teams is difficult.

We love Bont, but he is a premiership player with a stack of awards, and has played in finals in 2015, 2016, 21, and 22. In comparison to players like Cripps who played finals for the first time last year, Bont has had a successful career.

We need to gather as many draft picks we can get and restock the midfield, this year, in what is a good midfield draft, otherwise today’s game will be every week next year.

 

[Dogs Rule]

The whole St Bedes thing of trying to turn hacks into superstars or at best good role players has to go with the coach.

It doesn't work. Might get lucky and it works once every few years but we have about five we're trying right now. Gotta stop.

English has to be traded and as much as I'm done with the sideshow, move heaven and earth to keep Smith. If not, be aggressive as hell and bolster the midfield pace immediately.

We're in that 9-13 rut and it's going to be a long few years unless we pull our fingers out and do something bold.

 

[Munnez]

Unfortunately, the midfield is the problem staring us in the face. Our wonderful players in McCrae and Libba are at near the end, and young quick midfields show them up. Losing Dunkley and Bailey Smith has really accentuated the problem, along with having other prized assets a priority in the draft over restocking the midfield.

We have a forward line of riches, and a backline that it forming a shape for the future with JOD, Buss, Coffield, Buku. The jury is out on English, from AA ruck in 2023, to a ruck being beaten by less skilled but more aggressive rucks, but we do have Smith and Darcy, with support from Lobb, our future ruck is covered.

Like most supporters we over rate our team, and there is an urgency to utilise Bont who is at the peak of his power. But, we need to focus on a process of stabilising the team, this means we are not going to challenge for the premiership for the next two years, by the time we draft mids, as trying to lure mids from other teams is difficult.

We love Bont, but he is a premiership player with a stack of awards, and has played in finals in 2015, 2016, 21, and 22. In comparison to players like Cripps who played finals for the first time last year, Bont has had a successful career.

We need to gather as many draft picks we can get and restock the midfield, this year, in what is a good midfield draft, otherwise today’s game will be every week next year.

Absolutely have to restock the midfield he need a serious injection of pace Richards alone is not enough to cover our deficiencies. A bit more mongrel with that pace would be ideal.

 

[Dog 36]

Absolutely have to restock the midfield he need a serious injection of pace Richards alone is not enough to cover our deficiencies. A bit more mongrel with that pace would be ideal.

Garcia ? Pace mongrel ? Polish not sure about

 

[Optimistic Dog]

After a lot indecision I am now in the camp to trade Tim even if it is a late first. Forget about Barrass we have enough talls coming through. Keep Lobb and as much as I would like to keep an in form Baz he is exactly the type of player we need he is gone.

Recruit as many pacy midfielders as we can and hope we get some gems to play midfield and wings.

 

[Scragger77]

I know it is his first year and this is more a question than a knock but is Sanders very one paced with a lack of defensive pressure at times?

 

[mattwa]

I know it is his first year and this is more a question than a knock but is Sanders very one paced with a lack of defensive pressure at times?

I have will phillips vibes about sanders

 

[DognBones]

I know it is his first year and this is more a question than a knock but is Sanders very one paced with a lack of defensive pressure at times?

It's a bit early to make a definitive call on this. To me, in the longer term, he looks more of a distributor than an outside burst type. That's fine, if he can play that role effectively but right now we are crying out for some pace to get the ball moving quickly. A couple like Butters and Rozee would help!

 

[cherrypie]

Way too early label Sanders a flop but he hasn’t shown any elite traits yet. Reid, Windsor and McKercher all have shown they can damage opponents via their pace, kicking, decision making, forward craft etc.

I can see him being a good player long term but more as a solid, reliable Daniel Cross

Daniel Cross

Age

41

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

14.8

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

4.3

5star

CL

3.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

3.2

1star

K

1.6

1star

HB

1.6

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.6

3star

type rather than a Bont or Cooney who can change a game

 

[DognBones]

And another thing. In an utopian world of sport where loyalty still has some meaning, someone in Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

's position might consider repaying a club by giving back the year lost to injury by signing a new deal for at least that length of time. Of course, the injury was not his fault but he is still being well paid while recovering. If he walks, we lose two ways, by both his being unavailable and then being forced to trade him for whatever we can get which may or may not be of equal value.
Just a utopian thought.

 

[dogwatch]

Regardless of how good you think Sanders is or might be, it's a simple fact that we have lost our future first in the complex trade that landed us pick 6.

If we'd been flying this year (challenging for top 4) it would have been OK. But we're a good chance to finish closer to the bottom of the ladder than the top at this stage. So we'll probably be starting the trade period already behind the pack.

We must get back into the first round. We will have to sell further quality assets (Smith or English) to do that. Those quality assets should have been giving us a second or even a third pick in the first round, not salvaging our draft hand from disaster.

Difficult months ahead unless we can resurrect our season in a big way.

 

[Dogsman16]

I’ve done a complete u turn and would offer Smith 4+ and English im happy to let him walk.

His continual non efforts in the ruck is a common denominator when our team loses/midfield gets smashed.

he can be part of a Barass trade/pick trade and get a depth ruck option in such as Pittonet, O’Brien etc.

Even ask the question of Witts.

 

[Scragger77]

Yep Smith is a must keep IMO and I will take his poor kicking efficiency to have his outside speed. We should also be throwing the kitchen sink at Finn Callaghan.

 

[Packofdogs]

Crows O’Brien wants out of the Crows! Source- someone close to him. Really dislikes Nicks!
Just imagine our on ballers getting over 50% first use of the ball ! How things would change. Just a dream!

 

[Doggy Dan]

How embarrassing would i’d be for English and his manager at the moment. He’d be looking at his feet walking into WO.

 

[seaweed]

Would rather let Tim go and use the cash for an improved offer to keep Bailey Smith and gain a cheaper ruckman. Bailey isn’t perfect but we’ve absolutely missed his run through the middle and his best is far better than the potential of most of our side. Ed, Bailey and Treloar is a good mix of pace to go with Bont, Sanders and Libba.

Soldo and Meek appear to be free agents. Wouldn’t mind trading for Moyle, Pittonet or Nankervis either. Think all of those would be better value than a 4-5 year contract with English.

If we did go for Soldo, would that not be his third club? Bit wary of that but then again it’s worked for Grundy I guess

Doubtful Richmond would part with Nankervis although he certainly has the muscle and grunt we’re after

 

[Unorth]

How embarrassing would i’d be for English and his manager at the moment. He’d be looking at his feet walking into WO.

Unless your last name is Garcia I don’t think there’s a culture of accountability around. It’s probably sunshine and roses.

For how shit a season Tims having he’s about to be rewarded with a 5 year contract, we don’t have the guts to pull any offer off the table.

 

[DognBones]

English won't be going anywhere. Even he must realise that any reasonable offer is sufficient compensation for his output. He would be mad to haggle over whatever is on the table. Like others have posted, the club should now take the high ground and say "take it or leave it". I've never heard of an offer being reduced during negotiations but it's clear that is now the growing consensus opinion on this board.

 

[Bulldog in Kiev]

Tim did some nice things yesterday, unfortunately ruck work was not one of them .
He is timid and suspect his concussions have made it worse. We could do worse than swap him with the crows for O'Brien, at least he will contest in the ruck. If Marshall wants out from the Saints, would do a swap of Tim for Marshall in a heartbeat.
Right now, Smith is more of a need than a timid ruck, we lack speed and players who know how to tackle, Smith does both even if his kicking is suspect.

 

[Mofra]

Move English on and bring in Pittonet or whatever. Anyone that doesn’t get slaughtered in centre bounces every week.

And stop selecting the same players who are nowhere near the level over and over again. There are players in the VFL who have far more upside than the same depth players we select. It’s actually happened so many times now that my interest in football is waning.

And pray to god that Butters wants to come to this dump. Or KEEP Bailey Smith.

I was actually thinking about Pittonet yesterday, even under contract he seems on the outer with DK the future of Carltons ruck division.
Preuss is OOC and although he's injury prone he's 29 and wouldn't cost much. I'd take a few less disposals from a ruck if he can guarantee he'll never get bullied.

I'd actually prefer a Lobb/Darcy combo in the ruck to be honest. English would be a very good no 2 ruck/forward if he warted to play there but if he wants to be the no 1 man, I'm not sure it's serving us for that to happen at the kennel.