Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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House_of_Dahl said:
Yeah I don't like the raging at our players but not about to give up on him.

Just needs some of the senior heads that he respects to sit him down and get it out of his game. Bont and Naughts is where I'd start
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Been there done that
 
VitalDread said:
And Bailey Smith is a coke fiend

So what haha
Let the young lads have fun on their time off
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Yeah, with in reason mate. Want the big bucks, be professional.
 

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Have to be careful how I phrase this as not sure what I heard and what was really meant. This afternoon on SEN Josh Jenkins was asked about JUH and running under the ball and as a result going up with one hand and whether it was as a result of bad judgement or fear of contact.

He said (I think he said) that he has heard that JUH does not listen to people (not sure if that was he does not listen to the media experts etc). He does as he wants and does not listen.

Not sure if anyone else heard it
 
JUH comes across as a person who is just mentally locked in in-game and wants to see himself and others to do well and gets frustrated at things that in the heat of a game don't look like contributing toward a victory, rather than someone who genuinely is acting like he dislikes/disrespects his teammates . Surely we've all played in sports with people like that, in that their competitiveness comes out in slightly weird but clearly harmless ways?
 
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Should have just traded JUH last year and moved us to Tassie this year.

Rather that instead of trading JUH as we may as well fold the club
 
threenewpadlocks said:
JUH comes across as a person who is just mentally locked in in-game and wants to see himself and others to do well and gets frustrated at things that in the heat of a game don't look like victory, rather than someone who genuinely is acting like he dislikes/disrespects his teammates . Surely we've all played in sports with people like that, in that their competitiveness comes out in slightly weird but clearly harmless ways?
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But do you have any stats to quantify that? 😉
 
TiAn_ said:
Related Fun fact: if “Tim English’s opponent” (opposing first ruck) were a player, they’d currently be leading the league in hit outs with 589 and hit outs to advantage with 173. For contrast, that’s currently 200 more hit outs than Max Gawn’s opponents. Gawn’s also kicked 9 goals.

That’s with games against Gawn, Grundy, Briggs, Xerri and O’Brien still to come (5 of the top 7 for hit outs) for Tim. And the strong chance he’ll get battered by Pittonet this week.
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This isn't a fair statistical comparison, because a fair chunk of those contests from opposition players would be not against English, plus it also doesn't measure the opposition's second ruck when he comes up against English, which has the net overall effect of making English look worse than fair, because it's true that English raises his game against opposition 2nd rucks when coming up against him (to a greater extent that all rucks do generally), plus Darcy is also not a very good ruck at this young stage of his career in physical stuff too (while we should expect him to get better).

Obviously English vs. opposition primary ruck is most contests but it's not much more than that - probably only slightly more than half.

And if you look at a team level - without having the ability or access to champion data's stats that does track each nominating ruck at each contest - the best we can do is team-level stats. We are rank 15 for hitout to advantage differential as a team opponents get an average of 1.9 per game), which is bad, but not rank 18 bad as many are suggesting.

This is in keeping with some of the game-by-game stats that Oliver G has put in review threads this year which shows that English has shown an ability to be quite a good ruck against opposition second rucks, better than the typical expected improvement from all rucks anyway when coming up against a weaker opponent (though it also speaks generally to some mental weakness against opposition primary rucks, which I agree may occur, though I think its flow on effect is limited).

I'm not even sure I can see the relevancy of hitout to advantage rates of the importance of physical competitiveness in the ruck in the same way that I can see the value of the direct act of a ruck kicking a goal or taking an intercept mark, or whatever, but I'm just putting it out there for fairness.

I'm still going to be accussed of being illogically pro-English or whatever, even though in many ways I see myself as being consistent with last year and would widely agree with many others here of his extent of his his drop off from last year., and that much of the reasons why I think he's a better player than perception last year still apply this year, it's just that it's obviously shifted to overall worse form this year, and I'm not blind to that either.

It's just that I was defending his All-Australian year last year as entirely being correct and justified, when many didn't think that last year (while still I only believed that he was the third-best ruck in the league, which I've pointed out, Darcy was better but injured last year and Gawn was better once Melbourne dropped Grundy), and I'm claiming he's dropped off to be about the tenth-best ruck in the league this year. It's just that many would have only had him as the eigth-best last year or whatever, not the third-best, and would claim that he's now the 18th best or whatever ruck in the league.
 
Losing JUH because he is a bit too hard to handle would be an indictment on our coaching group.

Toby Green, Dane Swan, Buddy etc etc

All ratbags that needed time and guidance.
 
JUH is by no means a developed forward at this stage . How much upside he has is yet to be determined however my feels is there still a few seasons to go before he finds his beast mode .
Yes it can appear like all sorts of things are going wrong like watching a VDM kick sore of over his head or that he gets upset over a strong missed lead . As stated how many forwards would not be upset over shit kicks consistatly coming at him . I like his emotion . I won’t things to be better as he does . Before I pass judgement over his ceiling I like to see JUH play under an experienced forwards coach and maybe one or two players that have more silky ball delivery skills . If only Leon Cameron was delivering the ball inside 50 once again .
 
There is nothing wrong with being a bit of a party boy yet still putting in the hard yards and doing the hard work. Example Wayne Carey, partied hard but worked as hard as anyone at North.

The problem is when your partying becomes that excessive and you don't do the work required. I have no idea what the case is with JUH yet he is not working hard enough on field and he does not have the fitness on a modern day footballer. Is he still a good player, yes, just. Is he achieving what he is capable of, no he is not. Will he ever have natural stamina, no. Yet he can improve it, if he is willing to work hard enough. Time will tell.
 
threenewpadlocks said:
JUH comes across as a person who is just mentally locked in in-game and wants to see himself and others to do well and gets frustrated at things that in the heat of a game don't look like contributing toward a victory, rather than someone who genuinely is acting like he dislikes/disrespects his teammates . Surely we've all played in sports with people like that, in that their competitiveness comes out in slightly weird but clearly harmless ways?
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Take the rose-coloured glasses off mate. I would happily trade JUH for a decent CHB with a good attitude.

If you want to look to a young bloke with a great competitive attitude have a look at Sam Darcy.

JUH doesn’t look like he is fit enough either. He hasn’t bulked up nor is his cardio up up for consistent, repeat efforts. His tackling and chasing presence reminds me of Lipinski early days. He should look at Naughton for defensive pressure.
 

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threenewpadlocks said:
This isn't a fair statistical comparison, because a fair chunk of those contests from opposition players would be not against English, plus it also doesn't measure the opposition's second ruck when he comes up against English, which has the net overall effect of making English look worse than fair, because it's true that English raises his game against opposition 2nd rucks when coming up against him (to a greater extent that all rucks do generally), plus Darcy is also not a very good ruck at this young stage of his career in physical stuff too (while we should expect him to get better).

Obviously English vs. opposition primary ruck is most contests but it's not much more than that - probably only slightly more than half.

And if you look at a team level - without having the ability or access to champion data's stats that does track each nominating ruck at each contest - the best we can do is team-level stats. We are rank 15 for hitout to advantage differential as a team opponents get an average of 1.9 per game), which is bad, but not rank 18 bad as many are suggesting.

This is in keeping with some of the game-by-game stats that Oliver G has put in review threads this year which shows that English has shown an ability to be quite a good ruck against opposition second rucks, better than the typical expected improvement from all rucks anyway when coming up against a weaker opponent (though it also speaks generally to some mental weakness against opposition primary rucks, which I agree may occur, though I think its flow on effect is limited).

I'm not even sure I can see the relevancy of hitout to advantage rates of the importance of physical competitiveness in the ruck in the same way that I can see the value of the direct act of a ruck kicking a goal or taking an intercept mark, or whatever, but I'm just putting it out there for fairness.

I'm still going to be accussed of being illogically pro-English or whatever, even though in many ways I see myself as being consistent with last year and would widely agree with many others here of his extent of his his drop off from last year., and that much of the reasons why I think he's a better player than perception last year still apply this year, it's just that it's obviously shifted to overall worse form this year, and I'm not blind to that either.

It's just that I was defending his All-Australian year last year as entirely being correct and justified, when many didn't think that last year (while still I only believed that he was the third-best ruck in the league, which I've pointed out, Darcy was better but injured last year and Gawn was better once Melbourne dropped Grundy), and I'm claiming he's dropped off to be about the tenth-best ruck in the league this year. It's just that many would have only had him as the eigth-best last year or whatever, not the third-best, and would claim that he's now the 18th best or whatever ruck in the league.
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Your concession in using the word "physical" (twice!) regarding ruckwork and your last sentence indecisiveness suggests you are wavering on statistical absolutism TNP...? 🙂
 
BrisDog said:
Take the rose-coloured glasses off mate. I would happily trade JUH for a decent CHB with a good attitude.

If you want to look to a young bloke with a great competitive attitude have a look at Sam Darcy.

JUH doesn’t look like he is fit enough either. He hasn’t bulked up nor is his cardio up up for consistent, repeat efforts. His tackling and chasing presence reminds me of Lipinski early days. He should look at Naughton for defensive pressure.
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I agree with you 100% we have a gifted player that is not prepare to work hard enough. We traded one of this type to the bombers but he had more off problems than Jamarra. Hopefully the penny drops but it not going be this season. He needs a massive pre season just hope he is prepared to do the work.
 
JohnnySteel said:
Campbell Chesser omitted - Has really struggled to find form in the west. Has great speed / endurance mix and a big boot. Perhaps needs a fresh start back in Melbourne?

Young wing / half back option.

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
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I don't see it with him but he's had some setbacks that could have held him back and maybe he'll have a leap in the future.

I wouldn't be chasing him too hard but if he is a low cost option you can't really complain.
 
Optimistic Dog said:
I agree with you 100% we have a gifted player that is not prepare to work hard enough.
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He's had a massive pre-season and did a heap of extra boxing work during the break, on top of his pre season work.
Why do you think he's not prepared to work hard enough?
 
English massive bagging, then JUH.who’s up next?

With all of their flaws, there are a few others that should be ahead of them in the bagging stakes.

I guess their contracts put them in the firing line - fair enough I guess.

Jamarra does tend to be very demonstrative with his team mates - in both a positive and negative way.

It would be great if he could slot a few easy goals and take hold of a game - he has the talent, but something isn’t quite there yet.

I hope he kicks 5 and English goes all postal on his opposing ruck and exposes them on the turnover.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Mofra said:
He's had a massive pre-season and did a heap of extra boxing work during the break, on top of his pre season work.
Why do you think he's not prepared to work hard enough?
Click to expand...


That is pretty simple the way he is playing if you think he has done the work and is fit enough he is just lazy in games. Why I do not know? I think he has the skill set to be a topliner something is holding him back. Conversion is easy to see as one of his faults. Question for you are you disappointed with his performances this season?
 
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Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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