Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dogs Rule]

No way we get 2 first rounders for Smith, especially from Geelong

'Hey Richmond, you interested?'

 

[PurpJuice]

Sounds like we will have a first round pick from Geelong.

Any idea who we’d go for? I like the look of Joe Berry or Christian Moreas around the Cats 1st range.

 

[VitalDread]

This annoys me...a lot. Hopefully admin give him a foot up the arse.

Do you bloody job, coach. You're supposed to be excellent at relationships, so go and do it, get aggressive otherwise we'll be left behind. I sure as hell don't want us to be stuck in the middle forever.

Bevo and the club is very old school

Very respectful to other coaches and players
This does go a longer way when the trade period happens

 

[VitalDread]

Going back to 2021
Pick 11 - Wanganeen-Milera
Pick 33 - Mitch Owen's (Free hit)
Pick 47 - Windhager (Free hit)
Pick 51 - Oscar Adams (bust)
Plus Max heath and Cooper Sharman mid- season

2022
Pick 10 - Philipou
Pick 31 - Van Es ( horrible injury run)
Pick 35 Hotton (Jury is still out)
Pick 44 Keeler (developing nicely)

2023
Pick 18 - Darcy Wilson
Pick 28 - Collard
Pick 33 - Hastie
Pick 50 Hugo Garcia (one of my favourites)
Pick 62 - Shoenmaker

That's three great years in my book.

I would throw a decent pick to nab Keeler
I think he has a very bright future

 

[Next Waiting]

Early morning coffee chats (player manager, not someone who works at the Dogs, but speaks with our various teams / managers weekly).

-Macca more than happy to stay with the Dogs and earn his spot back.
-CD does have interested from other clubs, might explore his options end of year
-Smith to Geelong all but signed off on - Dogs expected to ask for two firsts
-Hasn't heard anything on Garcia.
-English 5 years, we didn't cave to his money/years demands
-Focus at the Kennel is to rejuv the midfield and wings
-Things at Melbourne worse than what the media is reporting - The club is in shambles
-As VD/Others have said, cap space wise we're in a good position - he expects the Dogs to be aggressive moving forward now that new facilities are complete and we're on an upward trajectory on field.
-Dogs are also looking at bringing on at least one new experienced assistant coach

He implied to me that every target we've chased over the last year has re-signed at their own club or had been lured elsewhere, supposedly management are filthy that the Hawks have ****-blocked us on Barass, and he reckons that's partly our fault as ''we're not as ruthless as some other clubs when trying to chase players'' (Bevo doesn't meet with oppo players during the season unlike some other coaches).

He hasn't heard any other names linked with us, and expects us to drag Smith out until late in the trade period, and use those picks to pick up elite young mids in the draft. He reckons Sam Power is one of the best negotiators in the league and several clubs have come knocking to get him to switch clubs but his knocked them all back.

How are our discussions with Butters progressing?

 

[VitalDread]

With no changes to the Draft Point this year
Shipping Daniel and Macrae for solid late seconds/ third rounders
Could allow us to trade up a bit

 

[dergert]

Third man up rule change killed us in 2017.

And now their head recruiter is at Richmond.

Long live the tigers!!!

 

[Dogs Rule]

Bevo and the club is very old school

Very respectful to other coaches and players
This does go a longer way when the trade period happens

Being nice doesn't win you flags. It's a ruthless business.

Should we be nice and just accept that Smith is going to Geelong and just roll over and accept what they want to give us? No, you fight and push and get the very best deal for the club and if Geelong aren't offering it, he can go elsewhere.

Should we just concede that Barrass is just off to Hawthorn, pack up the caravan and move on? No. He's clearly a need, so you fight.

This is a competition, be ruthless, nobody is going to give us anything and praise for being 'nice' is great, but successful clubs generally aren't nice and they don't always follow 'the rules'.

 

[stefoid]

Gone off Lukocious - apparently on a million dollar contract. yikes

 

[BulldogMuscle]

How are our discussions with Butters progressing?

 

[Dog 36]

Early morning coffee chats (player manager, not someone who works at the Dogs, but speaks with our various teams / managers weekly).

-Macca more than happy to stay with the Dogs and earn his spot back.
-CD does have interested from other clubs, might explore his options end of year
-Smith to Geelong all but signed off on - Dogs expected to ask for two firsts
-Hasn't heard anything on Garcia.
-English 5 years, we didn't cave to his money/years demands
-Focus at the Kennel is to rejuv the midfield and wings
-Things at Melbourne worse than what the media is reporting - The club is in shambles
-As VD/Others have said, cap space wise we're in a good position - he expects the Dogs to be aggressive moving forward now that new facilities are complete and we're on an upward trajectory on field.
-Dogs are also looking at bringing on at least one new experienced assistant coach

He implied to me that every target we've chased over the last year has re-signed at their own club or had been lured elsewhere, supposedly management are filthy that the Hawks have ****-blocked us on Barass, and he reckons that's partly our fault as ''we're not as ruthless as some other clubs when trying to chase players'' (Bevo doesn't meet with oppo players during the season unlike some other coaches).

He hasn't heard any other names linked with us, and expects us to drag Smith out until late in the trade period, and use those picks to pick up elite young mids in the draft. He reckons Sam Power is one of the best negotiators in the league and several clubs have come knocking to get him to switch clubs but his knocked them all back.

Thanks I’m sure I speak for most appreciate the info

 

[TiAn_]

I think opposite to you, I for one don't want the coach involved in those chats at all until after we bow out of finals. If the coach or players have a pre exsisting relationship with a potential target that's one thing but otherwise let Power and co handle that side of things and focus on this year.
You can always introduce yourself to potential targets at the midnight tours of the new facilities though.

I get where you’re coming from, but if I was contemplating changing employers I’d want to meet with the person I’d be reporting to before committing. And I understand a player wanting to square away their move as early as possible, including in-season if possible. Particularly a player like Barrass with a family. It might come from a place of integrity, but that approach from Bev might have to be reconsidered if it’s going to cost us commitments from opposition players.

 

[Dogs Rule]

I get where you’re coming from, but if I was contemplating changing employers I’d want to meet with the person I’d be reporting to before committing. And I understand a player wanting to square away their move as early as possible, including in-season if possible. Particularly a player like Barrass with a family. It might come from a place of integrity, but that approach from Bev might have to be reconsidered if it’s going to cost us commitments from opposition players.

For sure, act with integrity, be professional, but also be hard nosed and don't let your rivals get ahead of you and clearly that's what it seems they're doing right now. Hope we're onto that.

 

[RWnBluey]

Early morning coffee chats (player manager, not someone who works at the Dogs, but speaks with our various teams / managers weekly).

-Macca more than happy to stay with the Dogs and earn his spot back.
-CD does have interested from other clubs, might explore his options end of year
-Smith to Geelong all but signed off on - Dogs expected to ask for two firsts
-Hasn't heard anything on Garcia.
-English 5 years, we didn't cave to his money/years demands
-Focus at the Kennel is to rejuv the midfield and wings
-Things at Melbourne worse than what the media is reporting - The club is in shambles
-As VD/Others have said, cap space wise we're in a good position - he expects the Dogs to be aggressive moving forward now that new facilities are complete and we're on an upward trajectory on field.
-Dogs are also looking at bringing on at least one new experienced assistant coach

He implied to me that every target we've chased over the last year has re-signed at their own club or had been lured elsewhere, supposedly management are filthy that the Hawks have ****-blocked us on Barass, and he reckons that's partly our fault as ''we're not as ruthless as some other clubs when trying to chase players'' (Bevo doesn't meet with oppo players during the season unlike some other coaches).

He hasn't heard any other names linked with us, and expects us to drag Smith out until late in the trade period, and use those picks to pick up elite young mids in the draft. He reckons Sam Power is one of the best negotiators in the league and several clubs have come knocking to get him to switch clubs but his knocked them all back.

Thanks BM.
The first highlighted point makes me very happy - been saying for a while this needs to be our focus.
The second point was the cherry on top.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

This whole Petracca talk isn't realistic. Big, long contracts (like our ones to Naughton, Bont etc.) goes both ways. The player gets guaranteed, lengthy money irrespective of form, and the club has to pay that either way. But the club gets more than just the security of the player long term - it means that they can stuff things up, get the player upset with them as a club, but the player has to live with it because that's the risk and tradeoff of getting a lot of money that you'll still get even if you're not that good a player in the future or get injured or whatever.

He's expressing being upset at the club but there's not suggestion that he's even entertaining getting out of his contract and he accepts he gets good guaranteed money from a club environment he's already familiar at as part of the deal of signing that contract.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I've also posted this throughout the course of the year but:

historically, over the last 10 years or so, when an out-of-contract player gets traded as part of a new contract that makes them in the highest paid 50 players in the league (as Smith will be at Geelong), those trades are the ones that involve either multiple picks in the teens, or top 10 picks, especially when there's an element of them already having been a top 10 pick in the past and they're still following on the trajectory of that.

Consider - Cerra pick 6, Taranto 12 + 19, Jackson 13 + future 1st, Rankine pick 4.

I'm not saying Smith is exactly equivalent to that and his future on-field output is probably not at their level, but the contract amount suggests that it's not a million miles off, and people suggesting a single pick in the teens and a single pick in the 30's etc is a mile off from offering pick 6, pick 12 and 10, whatever.

The thing people forget is that there's still far more uncertainty in draft picks that people give credit for. Smith may never become an All-Australian, or get 15 brownlow votes in a season, or whatever - true, especially coming off his knee - but what pick 15-16 pick in the draft does? You can look up the statistics yourself - there is not a pick 15/16 draft pick drafted since 2001 that has eventually become an All-Australian. And only one pick 17 (Harry Taylor). We might get a better player with pick 17 but we might also get Josh Simpson

Josh Simpson

Age

30

Ht

184cm

Wt

73kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.5

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.5

2star

No current season stats available

D

13.5

4star

K

7.5

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.5

3star

or Michael Apeness with pick 17. Smith might be coming off a knee but at least you can say with as much realistic certainty that he'll be a good enough player to start at the centre bounce for whatever team he's in in Round 1, 2025 - which may never be the case for the player that we draft, and it's less of a guarantee for certain players (e.g. Sanders).

There'll be a lot to play out and we may not get a top draft pick but we're entirely fair to ask for the starting point of a current and future first (pick ~8 and pick ~13) and build from there, even though we'll get yanked back from that starting point. Pick 13 will be a good player the certainty that we have in their career output is far less than the future expected output of the certainty of Smith has proven he has done it.

 

[Dogs Rule]

I've also posted this throughout the course of the year but:

historically, over the last 10 years or so, when an out-of-contract player gets traded as part of a new contract that makes them in the highest paid 50 players in the league (as Smith will be at Geelong), those trades are the ones that involve either multiple picks in the teens, or top 10 picks, especially when there's an element of them already having been a top 10 pick in the past and they're still following on the trajectory of that.

Consider - Cerra pick 6, Taranto 12 + 19, Jackson 13 + future 1st, Rankine pick 4.

I'm not saying Smith is exactly equivalent to that and his future on-field output is probably not at their level, but the contract amount suggests that it's not a million miles off, and people suggesting a single pick in the teens and a single pick in the 30's etc is a mile off from offering pick 6, pick 12 and 10, whatever.

The thing people forget is that there's still far more uncertainty in draft picks that people give credit for. Smith may never become an All-Australian, or get 15 brownlow votes in a season, or whatever - true, especially coming off his knee - but what pick 15-16 pick in the draft does? You can look up the statistics yourself - there is not a pick 15/16 draft pick drafted since 2001 that has eventually become an All-Australian. And only one pick 17 (Harry Taylor). We might get a better player with pick 17 but we might also get Josh Simpson or Michael Apeness with pick 17. Smith might be coming off a knee but at least you can say with as much realistic certainty that he'll be a good enough player to start at the centre bounce for whatever team he's in in Round 1, 2025 - which may never be the case for the player that we draft, and it's less of a guarantee for certain players (e.g. Sanders).

There'll be a lot to play out and we may not get a top draft pick but we're entirely fair to ask for the starting point of a current and future first (pick ~8 and pick ~13) and build from there, even though we'll get yanked back from that starting point. Pick 13 will be a good player the certainty that we have in their career output is far less than the future expected output of the certainty of Smith has proven he has done it.

Bingo. Smith is a known quantity. Smith has performed, he is a very good player, he's very very very marketable and we have every right to consider the full package when dealing with clubs on a trade. Two firsts as a starting point. We cannot be bent over on this one. Cannot.

You really want him Geelong? Pay up.

 

[JohnnySteel]

What would we get for Khamis?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Foxman98]

What would we get for Khamis?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

What he's worth nothing

 

[Mojorisin]

What would we get for Khamis?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

What we paid for Coffield.

 

[Iamspock]

How are our discussions with Butters progressing?

We need to send Bont to have early morning coffee chats with Butters..

 

[doggie dog]

Early morning coffee chats (player manager, not someone who works at the Dogs, but speaks with our various teams / managers weekly).

-Macca more than happy to stay with the Dogs and earn his spot back.
-CD does have interested from other clubs, might explore his options end of year
-Smith to Geelong all but signed off on - Dogs expected to ask for two firsts
-Hasn't heard anything on Garcia.
-English 5 years, we didn't cave to his money/years demands
-Focus at the Kennel is to rejuv the midfield and wings
-Things at Melbourne worse than what the media is reporting - The club is in shambles
-As VD/Others have said, cap space wise we're in a good position - he expects the Dogs to be aggressive moving forward now that new facilities are complete and we're on an upward trajectory on field.
-Dogs are also looking at bringing on at least one new experienced assistant coach

He implied to me that every target we've chased over the last year has re-signed at their own club or had been lured elsewhere, supposedly management are filthy that the Hawks have ****-blocked us on Barass, and he reckons that's partly our fault as ''we're not as ruthless as some other clubs when trying to chase players'' (Bevo doesn't meet with oppo players during the season unlike some other coaches).

He hasn't heard any other names linked with us, and expects us to drag Smith out until late in the trade period, and use those picks to pick up elite young mids in the draft. He reckons Sam Power is one of the best negotiators in the league and several clubs have come knocking to get him to switch clubs but his knocked them all back.

Thanks for all the info BulldogMustle, it's great to have an insight into the club.

Regarding
-Smith to Geelong all but signed off on - Dogs expected to ask for two firsts.

How long do ya recon Smithy has been checked out to Geelong?
Did this play Sammy hand into trading up for Sanders due to loosing Smithy, thinking we had 1 year as a handover.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Houston would fit nicely into our backline/midfield and it would be beautiful to just pull the rug out from under the Demons.

 

[Mojorisin]

Houston would fit nicely into our backline/midfield and it would be beautiful to just pull the rug out from under the Demons.

He would but he will also cost too much.

 

[Philthy1]

He would but he will also cost too much.

But would be a very significant upgrade on either Buku or Coffield, hence the cost.