Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Here we go dogs]

I only see Owies working if he replaces Weightman, so he can spend more time up the ground. Owies remind me of a poor mans Tory Dickson

29

Tory Dickson

Age

36

Ht

184cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.7

4star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

1.6

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.8

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.0

4star

.

He is a short lead up forward that is a great kick for goal that provides little forward pressure and is an okay crumber (Tory Dickson

29

Tory Dickson

Age

36

Ht

184cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.7

4star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

1.6

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.8

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.0

4star

’s forward pressure was severely underrated - he would work himself into the ground).

 

[Dazb86]

Not if he can’t force his way into the team…

With Macrae leaving it's likely he spends way more time in the side.

 

[King Harold]

I bow to the majority on Owies, but I’m sure he will pop into my head every time I watch McNeil miss from 20 m out.

 

[Rookie]

I bow to the majority on Owies, but I’m sure he will pop into my head every time I watch McNeil miss from 20 m out.

There's a reason McNeil and VDM get games - our three talla need to be supported by fast running, high tackling smalls. VDM and McNeil are playing that role better than the alternatives.

Owies isn't an upgrade on either for us.

 

[King Harold]

There's a reason McNeil and VDM get games - our three talla need to be supported by fast running, high tackling smalls. VDM and McNeil are playing that role better than the alternatives.

Owies isn't an upgrade on either for us.

Yeah I get it , but I think nearly everyone agrees they are also players that are low skilled.
I watched Owies 2024 highlights, he is not slow , a better tackler than McNeil and light years ahead on skill level.
By eye he looks like someone that would do all those 2 players offer. Both a better kick and all round skill.

But I concede if Carlton are happy to move him on then he would come with limitations.

 

[Doggies_13]

People here would choose an inanimate carbon rod over VDM and McNeil and the extent to which they’re being blamed for everything wrong with the side is getting ridiculous.

I don’t think they are to blame but I do think that we need to improve the bottom 6 of our best 23. Our fifth and sixth forward positions are close to our weakest points on the field along with our wings. Therefore it’s only logical that those positions are the areas we want players in to push guys like VDM and McNeil to being depth players.

 

[Doggies_13]

There's a reason McNeil and VDM get games - our three talla need to be supported by fast running, high tackling smalls. VDM and McNeil are playing that role better than the alternatives.

Owies isn't an upgrade on either for us.

Please tell me how VDM is a high tackling small forward?

He had 45 tackles for the year at an average of 1.9 a game.

Weightman and McNeil both average 3.5 a game and West 3.2.

VDM also averages 9.9 disposals a game 1.7 of which are changers and scored just 10 goals 8 behinds from 24 games this year.

Not a single thing about VDM is him being a high tackling small forward. He’s a fast runner that’s it.

Now I’m not in favour of Owies really but his stats are:
2.3 tackles a games - not great but better than VDM
33 goals 13 behinds from 23 games - far superior to VDM.
8.7 disposals a game and 1.4 changers - pretty even with around 7.3 effective disposals to VDMs 8.2 but Owies has far superior impact

Also they are equals on goal assist stats 0.7 a game each

Is speed more important than impact

 

[DueWest]

Please tell me how VDM is a high tackling small forward?

He had 45 tackles for the year at an average of 1.9 a game.

Weightman and McNeil both average 3.5 a game and West 3.2.

VDM also averages 9.9 disposals a game 1.7 of which are changers and scored just 10 goals 8 behinds from 24 games this year.

Not a single thing about VDM is him being a high tackling small forward. He’s a fast runner that’s it.

Now I’m not in favour of Owies really but his stats are:
2.3 tackles a games - not great but better than VDM
33 goals 13 behinds from 23 games - far superior to VDM.
8.7 disposals a game and 1.4 changers - pretty even with around 7.3 effective disposals to VDMs 8.2 but Owies has far superior impact

Also they are equals on goal assist stats 0.7 a game each

Is speed more important than impact

It’s not hard to build an argument against VDM, then again McComb played most of one season before reason got in the way

 

[Foxman98]

Please tell me how VDM is a high tackling small forward?

He had 45 tackles for the year at an average of 1.9 a game.

Weightman and McNeil both average 3.5 a game and West 3.2.

VDM also averages 9.9 disposals a game 1.7 of which are changers and scored just 10 goals 8 behinds from 24 games this year.

Not a single thing about VDM is him being a high tackling small forward. He’s a fast runner that’s it.

Now I’m not in favour of Owies really but his stats are:
2.3 tackles a games - not great but better than VDM
33 goals 13 behinds from 23 games - far superior to VDM.
8.7 disposals a game and 1.4 changers - pretty even with around 7.3 effective disposals to VDMs 8.2 but Owies has far superior impact

Also they are equals on goal assist stats 0.7 a game each

Is speed more important than impact

Speed/Pressure is the impact Owies provides little to none of this hence why Carlton couln't give a rats ass about keeping him and there is little to no interest elsewhere to pick him up,

VDM needs to be replaced sure but the role he plays in the team like it or not is about pressure acts closing down space and goal assists which he was actually very good at this year

 

[Mofra]

There's a reason McNeil and VDM get games - our three talla need to be supported by fast running, high tackling smalls. VDM and McNeil are playing that role better than the alternatives.

Owies isn't an upgrade on either for us.

I'm glad somebody gets it.

The HHF defensive runners in no way get replaced by a defensively poor, closer to goal forward.
There's a reason Arty was straight in when VDM was out. It's a specific task set to a quick runner with high repeat endurance.

 

[Mofra]

I don’t think they are to blame but I do think that we need to improve the bottom 6 of our best 23.

I'm not sure blaming 5-10% of our cap is really that accurate.

By and large it was our Top 6 that shat the bed against the Hawks. They're the players that lead the way and need to stand up when the chips are down.

The bottom 6 guys are role players just trying to forge a career.

 

[Shacf501]

What are peoples thoughts on Matt Kennedy from Carlton... i know his 27 but if you could pick him up for peanuts could he be an inside bull for us while sanders develops? Lets not forget Libba is getting on

 

[Foxman98]

I'm not sure blaming 5-10% of our cap is really that accurate.

By and large it was our Top 6 that shat the bed against the Hawks. They're the players that lead the way and need to stand up when the chips are down.

The bottom 6 guys are role players just trying to forge a career.

Massive case in point our good friend Kane Cornes,

Ports bottom 6 are shit after losing against Geelong despite the fact Wines/Rozee/Butters/JHF all sucked magically all improve vs Hawthorn and they win,

The gap between average and crap players at AFL isn't that big the gap between Average and elite is huge and thats where games are won and lost i.e the gap from Poulter to Williams is closer then Williams to Bont

 

[Pugz89]

Jemaine Jones? Had some good years at eagles before this season.

Talk is he is going to Richmond.

 

[Mofra]

What are peoples thoughts on Matt Kennedy from Carlton... i know his 27 but if you could pick him up for peanuts could he be an inside bull for us while sanders develops? Lets not forget Libba is getting on

If Macrae isn't getting CBAs Kennedy certainly won't.

 

[Doggies_13]

Speed/Pressure is the impact Owies provides little to none of this hence why Carlton couln't give a rats ass about keeping him and there is little to no interest elsewhere to pick him up,

VDM needs to be replaced sure but the role he plays in the team like it or not is about pressure acts closing down space and goal assists which he was actually very good at this year

VDM pressure acts average 10.9 a game, Owies pressure acts 12.1 a game.

So if speed results in pressure why is it that Owies has more tackles and more pressure acts, he also averages more one percenters. More ground balls, more inside 50 ground balls which all suggests he gets to the ball quicker than his opponent more often than VDM does.

West 14.8 pressures acts average
Weightman 15.1 pressure acts average
McNeil 14.7 pressure acts average

Speed isn’t an automatic of pressure it depends what you do with speed and being slower doesn’t equate to less pressure if you have a football brain and know where to move to on the ground

 

[stefoid]

VDM is like a dog chasing a car - doesnt know what to do with it if he catches it

 

[Doggies_13]

I'm not sure blaming 5-10% of our cap is really that accurate.

By and large it was our Top 6 that shat the bed against the Hawks. They're the players that lead the way and need to stand up when the chips are down.

The bottom 6 guys are role players just trying to forge a career.

Our top 6 are the reason we made finals.

We need to improve our best team not our depth because some players currently in our team should be depth players not regulars.

You can get elite talent through the draft and development but given our assets this year that’s going to be difficult.

So we either sit on our hands or try to improve our bottom 6 which is more feasible this year given our assets

 

[Foxman98]

VDM pressure acts average 10.9 a game, Owies pressure acts 12.1 a game.

So if speed results in pressure why is it that Owies has more tackles and more pressure acts, he also averages more one percenters. More ground balls, more inside 50 ground balls which all suggests he gets to the ball quicker than his opponent more often than VDM does.

West 14.8 pressures acts average
Weightman 15.1 pressure acts average
McNeil 14.7 pressure acts average

Speed isn’t an automatic of pressure it depends what you do with speed and being slower doesn’t equate to less pressure if you have a football brain and know where to move to on the ground

You're completely disregarding the part where they close down space quicker making it harder to rebound which is what VDM excels at and why teams didn't have huge run ons like previous years

 

[Snarls Barkley]

The season is over, surely we can stop pretending Vandermeer offered anything. He played all season for the same reason that Gardner has played 50 games, Hannan played however many, McComb played a full season, etc. Bevo has blinkers on for battlers who are good teammates and hard trainers and will keep selecting them even if providing zero or negative impact

 

[Thunderoad]

Watched a bit of Werribee this year and was pretty impressed with Jaelen Pavlidis each time.

Small, speedy defender with good disposal, something we will need when Duryea retires.

Saw he got a wrap from the coach ahead of the VFL GF and hope that we have at least at a look at him.

 

[Doggies_13]

You're completely disregarding the part where they close down space quicker making it harder to rebound which is what VDM excels at and why teams didn't have huge run ons like previous years

Are there any stats to support that he in fact does that? Would closing players down not in fact be a pressure act?

 

[Foxman98]

Are there any stats to support that he in fact does that? Would closing players down not in fact be a pressure act?

No closing down someone without the ball to stop a switch isn't recorded as a stat,

Go back to the fox footy commentary after the Melbourne game a month ago and you'll get a more advanced understanding of his role,

He should by no means be B22 and we 100% need to find a better option but if you're going to try and do so at least go for someone comparable

 

[Mofra]

Are there any stats to support that he in fact does that? Would closing players down not in fact be a pressure act?

Repeat sprints? Leads the AFL IIRC. Treloar has been pretty open about him much his teammates love playing with him too.

If you're a masochist you could always watch some of our late 2022 season games, especially the GWS game.

They basically walked the ball out of their defense all the way up the ground as we just didn't defend the cheap 45 kick well at all. Supporters were (rightly) pulling their hair out.

 

[Mofra]

Our top 6 are the reason we made finals.

We need to improve our best team not our depth because some players currently in our team should be depth players not regulars.

You can get elite talent through the draft and development but given our assets this year that’s going to be difficult.

So we either sit on our hands or try to improve our bottom 6 which is more feasible this year given our assets

Blaming the bottom 6 is what we're taking about. Really, the last few guys picked don't move the needle much.
If English grew a pair that final, we'd improve far more than the incremental improvement we'd get by swapping a few role players.

Jones & Libba concern me too. Father time can make an appearance rather quickly.
Fortunately we do have kids who can start to cover them (Sanders and Buss) and both were in excellent VFL form late season too