Trade Talk 2013 - Yeo, Doc, Polec, Karnezis, Longer gone - Welcome Paine, West, Magwon!

[AFLQLD]

Picks in the 20s and 30s have something to prove. No free-riders in that group.

I think there is a fair bit of truth in this, and perhaps more so now than at any other time in the history of AFL drafting.

Young players by and large are responding to the drafting process based on expectation and applying a "value" to their draft number that goes beyond the actual year they are drafted.

The net result of this sense of expectation is borne out in players being unhappy about lack of game time given their "value" at draft time. I don't think this is unique to our club, rather the simple solution to the problem at our club is to "go home" because of our particular circumstances.

At most other clubs the situation may be tempered by the public adulation that comes with being an AFL player in a footy state - even the fringe players are sought out by the media, the fans and the girls. Low draft pick players are quite famous in the footy states before they have even kicked a ball in an AFL game. Added to this, many more of these draftees are already "home".

For players taken in the twenties, thirties and beyond, much of the expectation and much of the adulation is gone. Instead, a draftee selected later has to face the fact that there are plenty considered better, some of them probably in his own team drafted before him. I think this actually has a profound effect on them psychologically. For some, they see themselves as never quite as good as the low draft picks. There are plenty of them.

Others, though, see it as a case of "proving them all wrong". After the relief of actually being drafted comes the challenge of showing their true ability. And these players are the gems of the twenties, thirties, RD, PSD. Their mission comes from the desire to prove they are as good or better than the low draft picks. They train hard, play hard and buy into their club's ethos as a means of getting better and better.

If we have a bunch of drafts in the twenties and thirties, all is far from lost. They might all not make it but I suspect the ones that do we will love for the way they play and how much better they are than that guy we were forced to trade away a few years earlier. Or the guy that some other club took with that pick that they refused to trade to us.

Tom Rockliff should be the poster boy for any player who gets picked later. Let's get us some more Rockliffs.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Err, you really want to waste a second rounder on someone who got replaced by Blicavs - a guy who has only started playing the game a year or so ago? Think he played a few NAB cup games and already took over his role.

Geelong have five or so ruckman or their list and he's easily the worst.

I'm just a man who thinks that if you're going to get melodramatic, at least wait until something has happened that's worth getting melodramatic about. Especially since we have no idea what has been offered.

 

[Requiem]

You'd rather a speculative 3rd rounder 18 year old over a ruck with AFL experience?

I know which one i'd take 9/10.

IIRC the general concensus back in 2011 was that Sam Jacobs was shot and a depth player before moving over to the crows, anyone remember how that turned out?

Not saying that Trent West is going to pull a 'Sammie', but you never know.

 

[rockypls]

You'd rather a speculative 3rd rounder 18 year old over a ruck with AFL experience?

No. I'd rather a mature aged ruckman from the VFL, SANFL, WAFL or NEAFL.

 

[blackpowerlappin]

I'd respectfully suggest your memory might be a bit hazy. He's only played in a handful of finals and he wasn't particularly influential in any of them.

I will grant you that he's more likely to be useful in the forwardline in 2014 than Longer, so in that sense he adds to the ruck/forward options.

I think he would be a good acquisition and a good replacement for Longer. He plays to his best and he is in our best 22 surely?

 

[Ironmonger]

I think he would be a good acquisition and a good replacement for Longer. He plays to his best and he is in our best 22 surely?

Replacing who?

I know which one i'd take 9/10.

IIRC the general concensus back in 2011 was that Sam Jacobs was shot and a depth player before moving over to the crows, anyone remember how that turned out?

Not saying that Trent West is going to pull a 'Sammie', but you never know.

Jacobs was about four years younger than West is now.

I don't have a problem with bringing in West. In fact I think we need to bring in someone like West. I hope and expect that we'll make a fair offer and it won't involve a pick higher than #33.

 

[Yippyio]

West is an absolute Hack.

 

[Surly Boy]

Premiership player - not many of them left on our list....

Worth getting if the price is right.

 

[blackpowerlappin]

I'd think twice before using the third rounder we got today, although i'd rather us draft someone with that pick. If he comes across we'd be used as backup for Leui so i don't really see why he'd want to come.

I thought Longer was being enticed to stay by Leppa on the promise that he fit into the game plan and therefore the 22. So why would he not want to come?

 

[rockypls]

I thought Longer was being enticed to stay by Leppa on the promise that he fit into the game plan and therefore the 22. So why would he not want to come?

You'd think Martin would be a more popular choice to partner up with Leui if that's true? Martin is a decent ruckman - just a horrible forward.

 

[acuguy]

West isn't a hack! Dumb comment. West is the perfect foil for Luey, unlike Longer, West has the mobility to play deep forward, I would be happy to see him do a 75/25 split with Luey in the ruck/forward role. Great get by the club if we do land him. Right time to get a ruckman, he is turning 27, best footy is in front of him!

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

No. I'd rather a mature aged ruckman from the VFL, SANFL, WAFL or NEAFL.

Have you looked at the record of West in the VFL games he played this season.
http://www.sportingpulse.com/team_i...nt=1-118-10583-253880-18717703&ocompID=253880

Played 9 Games & was in the best players 6 times - pretty dominant? So when you actually think about it you are getting exactly what you want - the best mature ruckman from the strongest competition outside the AFL - the VFL. So .

The fact he is an AFL premiership ruckman, with experience is just a bonus Rock.

 

[Ironmonger]

Have you looked at the record of West in the VFL games he played this season.
http://www.sportingpulse.com/team_i...nt=1-118-10583-253880-18717703&ocompID=253880

Played 9 Games & was in the best players 6 times - pretty dominant? So when you actually think about it you are getting exactly what you want - the best mature ruckman from the strongest competition outside the AFL - the VFL. So .

The fact he is an AFL premiership ruckman, with experience is just a bonus Rock.

I don't disagree with any of that, but at the same time those stats don't add much weight to the argument that he'll be an effective forward for us, even as a pinch hitter. Looks like he spent every game more or less exclusively in the ruck.

 

[blackpowerlappin]

You'd think Martin would be a more popular choice to partner up with Leui if that's true? Martin is a decent ruckman - just a horrible forward.

Mmmm. You want the second ruck to be a better ruck than forward? I thought the second ruck should be capable in the ruck and be able to be a decent fwd. Martin has struggled as a forward and Longer was not ready. Lisle struggles as a back up ruck and Sauce should never ever be required to pinch hit there from now on. Makes more sense as to why West is worth a crack.

 

[Luke Kathutian]

Still shaking my head over that polec trade. Can anyone explain to me why, if adelaide offered pick 23 and port offered pick 22 and a downgrade on pick 29 to 34... Why wouldnt we just take adelaides 23. Am I missing something? Can anyone explain to me why that just happened?

I thought we did all right on yeo but the doc and polec trades have been awful. Got a bad bad feeling the saints are going to well and truly give it to us tomorrow.

On a positive not nice to see all the messages of support guys from other clubs are posting. Does give a bit of a funeral feel to the whloe thing though.

 

[rockypls]

Mmmm. You want the second ruck to be a better ruck than forward? I thought the second ruck should be capable in the ruck and be able to be a decent fwd. Martin has struggled as a forward and Longer was not ready. Lisle struggles as a back up ruck and Sauce should never ever be required to pinch hit there from now on. Makes more sense as to why West is worth a crack.

What makes you say West is a better forward? They both seem useless to me. With Martin you'd at least know your second ruckman will still perform at a good level.

 

[blackpowerlappin]

What makes you say West is a better forward? They both seem useless to me. With Martin you'd at least know your second ruckman will still perform at a good level.

Ok give me a name in the current trade environment, who we can consider. You suggested a mature ruck from the lower levels? You think West and Martin are both hacks, so who?

I don't mind Martin for the record, too early to judge after one season at a new club and an injury riddled one at that. Think he struggles to play the fwd role, but I am happy to give him more time.

 

[rockypls]

Have you looked at the record of West in the VFL games he played this season.
http://www.sportingpulse.com/team_i...nt=1-118-10583-253880-18717703&ocompID=253880

Played 9 Games & was in the best players 6 times - pretty dominant? So when you actually think about it you are getting exactly what you want - the best mature ruckman from the strongest competition outside the AFL - the VFL. So .

The fact he is an AFL premiership ruckman, with experience is just a bonus Rock.

uwot. I meant not AFL listed mainly due to knowing who is mediocre and who will have a good career. Sure West can dominate second tier ruckman and small kids in the lower leagues but he's proven nothing at AFL level. I'd rather just take a punt on something like Ben Brown - he fits our needs and age group.

 

[rockypls]

Ok give me a name in the current trade environment, who we can consider. You suggested a mature ruck from the lower levels? You think West and Martin are both hacks, so who?

I never said Martin was a hack? I rate him as a ruckman, he's decent at taps and moves around the ground nicely. If we can improve his forward game then he'd become a regular in our side.

 

[Yippyio]

West isn't a hack! Dumb comment. West is the perfect foil for Luey, unlike Longer, West has the mobility to play deep forward, I would be happy to see him do a 75/25 split with Luey in the ruck/forward role. Great get by the club if we do land him. Right time to get a ruckman, he is turning 27, best footy is in front of him!

Seriously, are you smoking the same stuff as the club? How many b grade crap footballers can we bring to this club, before people realise they are not the answer? How's Stefan Martin working out? What about Jordan Lisle? Tall blokes who can play are like Gems, they don't grow on trees. There's no way clubs would pass them off if they had any sort of potential. He lost his spot on the pecking order to a first yearer and a bloke who can barely string 2 games together. He's a list clogger at best. Hack.

 

[blackpowerlappin]

I never said Martin was a hack? I rate him as a ruckman, he's decent at taps and moves around the ground nicely. If we can improve his forward game then he'd become a regular in our side.

Oops sorry, wrong post. Deepest apologies.

Was referring to Yipiyio

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

I don't disagree with any of that, but at the same time those stats don't add much weight to the argument that he'll be an effective forward for us, even as a pinch hitter. Looks like he spent every game more or less exclusively in the ruck.

Don't disagree - at least if thrown forward he will compete when Longer was forward it was a non-event.

I honestly don't know how Paine, McGuane, Martin, Staker, Lisle & Brown fit into a forward structure without even considering the resting ruckman West/Leunberger. What of Michael & Close - will Close pack his bags if frozen out (de ja vue?), plenty of numbers just not sure of the plan ATM.

 

[blackpowerlappin]

Don't disagree - at least if thrown forward he will compete when Longer was forward it was a non-event.

I honestly don't know how Paine, McGuane, Martin, Staker, Lisle & Brown fit into a forward structure without even considering the resting ruckman West/Leunberger. What of Michael & Close - will Close pack his bags if frozen out (de ja vue?), plenty of numbers just not sure of the plan ATM.

At least there are options, some younger, some recycled and some will be able to play roles. At least there is competition, and Leuey will be more and more dangerous in the fwd line as the years progress. It's not the worst collection.

 

[lukiuslion]

Coulda, shoulda, woulda, didn't.

No way of telling what could have happened back then, no point in crying over spilt milk.

Plus anything more than pick 12 for Tippett back then given his own injury concerns (ala concusions) would have been paying massive overs IMO.

If Kerr did that deal we would have crucified him for a long time.

Also - we were coming off the Fevola drama and we had copped a lot of flack for shopping players around, we were determined to keep young talent and show loyalty, so players were not to be traded under any circumstances, I know - far lot of good that did, but I supported that decision at the time, even if it meant no Tippett.

 

[Haso]

Also - we were coming off the Fevola drama and we had copped a lot of flack for shopping players around, we were determined to keep young talent and show loyalty, so players were not to be traded under any circumstances, I know - far lot of good that did, but I supported that decision at the time, even if it meant no Tippett.

I still think it was the right call. Mostly in light of the context at the time.