Training Report: Thursday Nov 9, 2017

[Jasper84]

Langdon? The coaching group love him he was always getting that spot as soon as he was “fit”.

Whether the coaching group love him or not, he was coming into just his 4th year after missing almost all of 2016, all preseason and the start of the 2017 season with injury. The fact he could slot straight back in and string together some good games after such a low base is probably a good reason why he is loved by the coaching group despite frequently being maligned by supporters.

 

[Apex36]

Langdon? The coaching group love him he was always getting that spot as soon as he was “fit”.

Hahahah yeah I spotted that one too. Those two VFL games he cruised through before being selected in the senior side must have been tough on him!

 

[Darkyprotector]

Langdon? The coaching group love him he was always getting that spot as soon as he was “fit”.

Disagree mate
Soft with questionable intensity, which others also suffer from and he unbalances our back line as he is Too similar and is not offensive enough
Surely it's time to get rid of this malaise
Crisp , travis and maybe Murray will be picked before him and rightly so ; crisp (a revelation ) as we must start to attack from the backline as all winning teams do
His treacle like disposals and decision making leaves a lot to be desired
Surely too he's after shaz who has more currency
IMO we would need to move Howe up field to play him regularly , doubt thats gonna happen
I rekin he, broom , shaz , fas aish and even a few others are on very shaky ground as I'm sure you would agree
Wanta perform this year or gone
At least 8 changes next year IMO
2 free agents, f/s and 2 NGA plus new top end picks
Hence Ned guy

 

[Apex36]

Disagree mate
Soft with questionable intensity, which others also suffer from and he unbalances our back line as he is Too similar and is not offensive enough
Surely it's time to get rid of this malaise
Crisp , travis and maybe Murray will be picked before him and rightly so ; crisp (a revelation ) as we must start to attack from the backline as all winning teams do
His treacle like disposals and decision making leaves a lot to be desired
Surely too he's after shaz who has more currency
IMO we would need to move Howe up field to play him regularly , doubt thats gonna happen
I rekin he, broom , shaz , fas aish and even a few others are on very shaky ground as I'm sure you would agree
Wanta perform this year or gone
At least 8 changes next year IMO
2 free agents, f/s and 2 NGA plus new top end picks
Hence Ned guy

Sco isn’t a fan of his so you’re preaching to the choir, but the fact is that Langdon was rushed in after 2 VFL games and held his spot despite some average performances whereas Scharenberg was made to have several consecutive 30 possession games before getting the nod, and then was dropped again despite his numbers steadily improving in each game he played.

It’s pretty clear that the coaching group rate Langdon even if a lot of us on the sidelines don’t.

 

[Pippie27]

He’s talking about JDG mate, not Sier.

Serves me right for not reading properly, my bad.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Sco isn’t a fan of his so you’re preaching to the choir, but the fact is that Langdon was rushed in after 2 VFL games and held his spot despite some average performances whereas Scharenberg was made to have several consecutive 30 possession games before getting the nod, and then was dropped again despite his numbers steadily improving in each game he played.

It’s pretty clear that the coaching group rate Langdon even if a lot of us on the sidelines don’t.

Mate if so I hope that changes , with a different panel
Drawing a long bow , perhaps after langdons njuries we are trying to build his value, whilst building shaz up a bit?
He's a liability and like others in the past costs us games
If we get it right

 

[TradeDraft]

JDG is the one this pre-season. I think he is the most important player this pre-season because he is the one that can elevate himself to an A grade player. It would make such a big difference to the side.

I also say the 3 Drafted player in 2014 all can have a Big Factor Next Season

 

[Scodog10]

Whether the coaching group love him or not, Scharenberg was coming into just his 4th year after missing most of 2014, part of 2015, all of 2016 and with a slow start to the 2017. The fact he could slot straight back in and string together some good games after such a low base compared to his competitors for a spot is a credit to his persistence and work rate.

EFA.

It’s all accurate information re Langdon and the time he’s missed. Being maligned by supporters has zero bearing on the love in from the coaching group. Blair is an obvious comparison to make on that front.

It’s also a never ending circle because he received the opportunity to slot straight in before he was ready in 2017 due to the coaching group loving what he offers. If they didn’t love him he spends longer in the reserves meaning less time for the casual observer to be wowed by his intercept game.

By comparison Scharenberg came from further back, with a lessened body of work behind him and then produced similar results. It’s now become a bit unsexy to talk up Scharenberg when he’s the one that should be receiving the plaudits, IMO.

Both are long term options for us, but in terms of where they stood entering and exiting 2017 Langdon has in no way surpassed Scharenberg from my perspective.

Disagree mate
Soft with questionable intensity, which others also suffer from and he unbalances our back line as he is Too similar and is not offensive enough
Surely it's time to get rid of this malaise
Crisp , travis and maybe Murray will be picked before him and rightly so ; crisp (a revelation ) as we must start to attack from the backline as all winning teams do
His treacle like disposals and decision making leaves a lot to be desired
Surely too he's after shaz who has more currency
IMO we would need to move Howe up field to play him regularly , doubt thats gonna happen
I rekin he, broom , shaz , fas aish and even a few others are on very shaky ground as I'm sure you would agree
Wanta perform this year or gone
At least 8 changes next year IMO
2 free agents, f/s and 2 NGA plus new top end picks
Hence Ned guy

As Apex stated I’m not a Langdon lover, but I’m concious of the coaching group being all over him so I have to adjust my opinion to suit.

For me if he increases that intensity in game and works a lot harder on his defensive side he’ll fall back in favour with me. As it stands though l think he coasts way too much and I’d like to see him challenged more. He probably has it in him to replicate Dane Rampe’s, but he won’t get near that under this coaching group, IMO.

 

[Lefthanded]

I also say the 3 Drafted player in 2014 all can have a Big Factor Next Season

I'm hoping the 4 from 2014 still on our list have a big impact next season, guessing you forgot Cox from the Rookie signings.

 

[Jasper84]

EFA.

It’s all accurate information re Langdon and the time he’s missed. Being maligned by supporters has zero bearing on the love in from the coaching group. Blair is an obvious comparison to make on that front.

It’s also a never ending circle because he received the opportunity to slot straight in before he was ready in 2017 due to the coaching group loving what he offers. If they didn’t love him he spends longer in the reserves meaning less time for the casual observer to be wowed by his intercept game.

By comparison Scharenberg came from further back, with a lessened body of work behind him and then produced similar results. It’s now become a bit unsexy to talk up Scharenberg when he’s the one that should be receiving the plaudits, IMO.

Both are long term options for us, but in terms of where they stood entering and exiting 2017 Langdon has in no way surpassed Scharenberg from my perspective.



As Apex stated I’m not a Langdon lover, but I’m concious of the coaching group being all over him so I have to adjust my opinion to suit.

For me if he increases that intensity in game and works a lot harder on his defensive side he’ll fall back in favour with me. As it stands though l think he coasts way too much and I’d like to see him challenged more. He probably has it in him to replicate Dane Rampe’s, but he won’t get near that under this coaching group, IMO.

If it's all accurate information then why are you editing my comment? I didn't even mention Sharenberg so it's a bit rich to edit my posts to make it look I was comparing the two.

 

[Gone Critical]

Disagree mate
Soft with questionable intensity, which others also suffer from and he unbalances our back line as he is Too similar and is not offensive enough
Surely it's time to get rid of this malaise
Crisp , travis and maybe Murray will be picked before him and rightly so ; crisp (a revelation ) as we must start to attack from the backline as all winning teams do
His treacle like disposals and decision making leaves a lot to be desired
Surely too he's after shaz who has more currency
IMO we would need to move Howe up field to play him regularly , doubt thats gonna happen
I rekin he, broom , shaz , fas aish and even a few others are on very shaky ground as I'm sure you would agree
Wanta perform this year or gone
At least 8 changes next year IMO
2 free agents, f/s and 2 NGA plus new top end picks
Hence Ned guy

Mate if so I hope that changes , with a different panel
Drawing a long bow , perhaps after langdons njuries we are trying to build his value, whilst building shaz up a bit?
He's a liability and like others in the past costs us games
If we get it right

That is way too negative an assessment of Langdon.

He is currently best 22 and I dont see that changing. Must say I dont really agree with the lines that seem to be being drawn between Langdon and Shaz. Partly it relates to them competing for similar positions but there seems room for both as it stands. I would charaterise Langdon as an established best 22 coming back from injury and as is the norm for such a player that coaching staff gets them back into the senior 22 pretty quickly based on the abilities they have shown in the past at AFL level.

Shaz is more an establishing best 22 coming from further back and the plan would have always been to give him a good opportunity to establish himself in the VFL and not rush him. He did a good apprenticeship in the VFL then moved through and looked pretty capble in the AFL by year end.

I would see both as having successful 2017s and been both very well managed. We can expect bigger seasons from both in 2018. Langdon is ahead as a player currently but I would hope Shaz can close that gap in 2018. As to Crisp, Varcoe or Murray they may all be candidates for the smaller running backman possie with Sinclair and Ramsay gone. Crisp and Varcoe we expect both to be best 22 just a matter of where they play. Murray has a long way to go before you could make any call on him knocking either of Shaz or Langdon, even if he isnt really directly competing with them. Lets see how he handles the step up to VFL level before we worry about AFL games

 

[Scodog10]

If it's all accurate information then why are you editing my comment? I didn't even mention Sharenberg so it's a bit rich to edit my posts to make it look I was comparing the two.

It’s accurate re Langdon’s injury history only. I don’t agree with your opinion hence the edit. That wasn’t the angle I was taking re Scharenberg and I thought the info supplied in my post would explain that, but anyway I’ll just go back to maligning Langdon

 

[grayza2018]

Thanks for the update! I'd like to get down there one morning with my boy and let him have a run around on the hill while I can cast an eye on who is looking the goods

Broomhead got a mention - I'd say he is a fifth or possibly sixth year player now? Not required at training just yet..

 

[Darkyprotector]

That is way too negative an assessment of Langdon.

He is currently best 22 and I dont see that changing. Must say I dont really agree with the lines that seem to be being drawn between Langdon and Shaz. Partly it relates to them competing for similar positions but there seems room for both as it stands. I would charaterise Langdon as an established best 22 coming back from injury and as is the norm for such a player that coaching staff gets them back into the senior 22 pretty quickly based on the abilities they have shown in the past at AFL level.

Shaz is more an establishing best 22 coming from further back and the plan would have always been to give him a good opportunity to establish himself in the VFL and not rush him. He did a good apprenticeship in the VFL then moved through and looked pretty capble in the AFL by year end.

I would see both as having successful 2017s and been both very well managed. We can expect bigger seasons from both in 2018. Langdon is ahead as a player currently but I would hope Shaz can close that gap in 2018. As to Crisp, Varcoe or Murray they may all be candidates for the smaller running backman possie with Sinclair and Ramsay gone. Crisp and Varcoe we expect both to be best 22 just a matter of where they play. Murray has a long way to go before you could make any call on him knocking either of Shaz or Langdon, even if he isnt really directly competing with them. Lets see how he handles the step up to VFL level before we worry about AFL games

Yeah I suppose I just have vivid memory's of those helicopter kicks and freeze moments
Lets hope I get over it

 

[jackcass]

Yeah I suppose I just have vivid memory's of those helicopter kicks and freeze moments
Lets hope I get over it

You mean that time when he weighed his options off wing/HB, pulled the trigger fractionally before he got tackled, pulling a kick slightly across his body hitting the chest of the leading forward 35-40m out directly in front. Yeah, we don't need that happening.

 

[Gone Critical]

Yeah I suppose I just have vivid memory's of those helicopter kicks and freeze moments
Lets hope I get over it

The freeze moments in particular I have a much more positive view of. I reckon he is good with time and space. In his 2nd year he hung onto the ball longer looking for better options. Sometimes he missed the best option but one thing he didn't do was get caught with ball in hand. As this develops and with his pace he will make better choices and become a much better attacking player.

 

[Mukesh]

For me if he increases that intensity in game and works a lot harder on his defensive side he’ll fall back in favour with me. As it stands though l think he coasts way too much and I’d like to see him challenged more. He probably has it in him to replicate Dane Rampe’s, but he won’t get near that under this coaching group, IMO.

I too was surprised by Tom's rapid reappearance in the firsts last year...While I don't mind him as a player, unfortunately he reminds me of Andrew Mackie..but.. he's had exactly one training session under 'this coaching group' so I don't think that has any relevance..

 

[Scodog10]

I too was surprised by Tom's rapid reappearance in the firsts last year...While I don't mind him as a player, unfortunately he reminds me of Andrew Mackie..but.. he's had exactly one training session under 'this coaching group' so I don't think that has any relevance..

Hold your horses. We only made one outgoing change from the coaching group that fast tracked him last year? The only incoming change was Longmuir. His line coach, the reserves coach and senior coach are all still members of the coaching group in 2018.

I hardly think he’s going from a rapid reappearance to falling out of favour on the back of ‘this coaching group’. I’ll be tickled pink if that’s incorrect because the ease with which he’s received senior games has been a major contributor towards his plateau in form, IMO.

 

[Mukesh]

Hold your horses. We only made one outgoing change from the coaching group that fast tracked him last year? The only incoming change was Longmuir. His line coach, the reserves coach and senior coach are all still members of the coaching group in 2018.

I hardly think he’s going from a rapid reappearance to falling out of favour on the back of ‘this coaching group’. I’ll be tickled pink if that’s incorrect because the ease with which he’s received senior games has been a major contributor towards his plateau in form, IMO.

hhmmm....

Collingwood's AFL coaching panel for 2018
Nathan Buckley – Senior Coach
Robert Harvey – Assistant Coach midfield and transition
Garry Hocking – Assistant Coach stoppages
Justin Longmuir – Assistant Coach backline and team defence
Brenton Sanderson – Assistant Coach forward line and ball movement


 

[Scodog10]

hhmmm....

Collingwood's AFL coaching panel for 2018
Nathan Buckley – Senior Coach
Robert Harvey – Assistant Coach midfield and transition
Garry Hocking – Assistant Coach stoppages
Justin Longmuir – Assistant Coach backline and team defence
Brenton Sanderson – Assistant Coach forward line and ball movement


Have another read of my post because I covered it all off

It might also be worth investigating Harvey’s role in 2017.

 

[Mukesh]

Have another read of my post because I covered it all off

It might also be worth investigating Harvey’s role in 2017.

Rob Harvey was the backline coach this year, right ? And he gifted Tom games, is that the point you're making ?

 

[rand corp]

Love these training reports, thank you so much for making the effort, I really look forward to them.

 

[Apex36]

Have another read of my post because I covered it all off

It might also be worth investigating Harvey’s role in 2017.

I’ll admit I read it the same way as Mukesh too, I thought you were trying to say Harvey was still his line coach.

 

[Scodog10]

Rob Harvey was the backline coach this year, right ? And he gifted Tom games, is that the point you're making ?

Really getting off topic here so I’d like to echo the sentiment of rand corp.

I’ll admit I read it the same way as Mukesh too, I thought you were trying to say Harvey was still his line coach.

Tsk tsk you’re better than that mate!

 

[Mukesh]

I’ll admit I read it the same way as Mukesh too, I thought you were trying to say Harvey was still his line coach.

really my only point was that the 2018 panel is 40% different to the 2017 panel...